Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Neutronium]

#87[/URL]]
I feel that there should only be one or two modes - since offline isn't an option anymore:

Option 1: PvP only [unlikely, since not everyone likes competitive games].
Option 2: PvE w/ PvP flags [Yes, just like WoW]

I know this isn't flagged as an MMO anymore, but Wings will make 'Group' mode moot - Apart from Möbius; which would also become moot if we had a PvE server.

The PvP flag could be switched on/off as easily as your Landing Gear being deployed...

I am quoting this very old post from the 1st original thread because option 2 describes exactly my opinion.

If we only had one option i.e open play then there would be no problem with people hiding in private group or solo working towards/against community goals, powers, factions, allegiances, groups, exploration targets, you name it, etc, etc because you could see them and they could see you. Every conflict between powers, every shift of state, everything in-game would have a meaning, even exploration because you would be able to see where everyone is exploring so you could choose an unexplored area of the galaxy. One universe should mean one universe. Period.

Only additional option would be the Pve/PvP flag. If you choose for eg PvE you would be able to see both PvE and PvP players in the universe but you would only be able to attack and be attacked by NPCs. Similarly if you are a PvP player you could only attack and be attacked by all NPCs (obviously) but you could also attack and be attacked by other PvP-flagged Commanders.
If you are in normal space and there are both PvEs and PvPs in the instance and you try to ram or fire at a PvE (or vice versa) then you would simply hit void i.e your ship and the oposite flags commander ship would be none-interactable. Visible: Yes but just that.
In supercruise your FSD interdictor would simply not be able to lock on the PvE player.

In main menu after clicking start, there would only be another sub-menu: PvE or PvP and then the loading screen would pop immedietly after.
End of Story.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If we only had one option i.e open play then there would be no problem with people hiding in private group or solo working towards/against community goals, powers, factions, allegiances, groups, exploration targets, you name it, etc, etc because you could see them and they could see you. Every conflict between powers, every shift of state, everything in-game would have a meaning, even exploration because you would be able to see where everyone is exploring so you could choose an unexplored area of the galaxy. One universe should mean one universe. Period.

Only additional option would be the Pve/PvP flag. If you choose for eg PvE you would be able to see both PvE and PvP players in the universe but you would only be able to attack and be attacked by NPCs. Similarly if you are a PvP player you could only attack and be attacked by all NPCs (obviously) but you could also attack and be attacked by other PvP-flagged Commanders.
If you are in normal space and there are both PvEs and PvPs in the instance and you try to ram or fire at a PvE (or vice versa) then you would simply hit void i.e your ship and the oposite flags commander ship would be none-interactable. Visible: Yes but just that.
In supercruise your FSD interdictor would simply not be able to lock on the PvE player.

In main menu after clicking start, there would only be another sub-menu: PvE or PvP and then the loading screen would pop immedietly after.
End of Story.

.... or alternatively, players who wish to play in Solo could continue to do so; players who wish to play in Private Groups could continue to do so; players who wish to play in Open could continue to do so and players who wish to play in any of the three modes as and when they please could continue to do so.

In your proposal, if players with the PvP-flag set to off were undermining a system, how is that any different from a player in a different mode doing the same - a player cannot counter them either way. Also, bear in mind that all platforms share the same galaxy state and we don't expect to be able to cross-play.

 

[Neutronium]

.... or alternatively, players who wish to play in Solo could continue to do so; players who wish to play in Private Groups could continue to do so; players who wish to play in Open could continue to do so and players who wish to play in any of the three modes as and when they please could continue to do so.

In your proposal, if players with the PvP-flag set to off were undermining a system, how is that any different from a player in a different mode doing the same - a player cannot counter them either way. Also, bear in mind that all platforms share the same galaxy state and we don't expect to be able to cross-play.

True, but you would know if you are fighting a fight that can be won or not - You would now be able to see the enemy ghosts and make an informed decision.
Do you like to fight blindfolded? I don't .

The other option would be to have two seperate servers, one PvE and one PvP. Each would be a completely different universe with absolutely no interaction and effect on each other. This might be a better option imo.

But all this is of no importance now as Frontier has no foreseeable intentions to change this.

 

[Mouse]

True, but you would know if you are fighting a fight that can be won or not - You would now be able to see the enemy ghosts and make an informed decision.
Do you like to fight blindfolded? I don't .

The other option would be to have two seperate servers, one PvE and one PvP. Each would be a completely different universe with absolutely no interaction and effect on each other. This might be a better option imo.

But all this is of no importance now as Frontier has no foreseeable intentions to change this.

All it would do is cause certain people to harass some verbally to try and get them to quit or come on the forums and raise a stink because they could see someone and not shoot them

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

personally I like it exactly how it is.... all i would ask for is mobius to become an official mode with tools to lessen the slack for him (not that i have seen him moan but it cant be fun managing that list)

 

[Globusdiablo]

personally I like it exactly how it is.... all i would ask for is mobius to become an official mode with tools to lessen the slack for him (not that i have seen him moan but it cant be fun managing that list)

I second the motion.

 

[Neutronium]

All it would do is cause certain people to harass some verbally to try and get them to quit or come on the forums and raise a stink because they could see someone and not shoot them

There is the report a player option for such a behaviour.

personally I like it exactly how it is.... all i would ask for is mobius to become an official mode with tools to lessen the slack for him (not that i have seen him moan but it cant be fun managing that list)

Well I don't and the reason is not only that players are scattered in all different groups affecting the same universe but also because this universe is so huge so that splitting players in different groups is diluting the already diluted player base even more.

 

[Mouse]

There is the report a player option for such a behaviour.



Well I don't and the reason is not only that players are scattered in all different groups affecting the same universe but also because this universe is so huge so that splitting players in different groups is diluting the already diluted player base even more.

If you get the person to leave.. you still accomplished your goal.. and from things I've heard.. sadly the jerks don't fear the Banhammer.. maybe it needs to be swung more often.


And you talk about not liking things because it dilutes the player base, yet you just said...

The other option would be to have two seperate servers, one PvE and one PvP. Each would be a completely different universe with absolutely no interaction and effect on each other. This might be a better option imo.

So I apologize, but if your not wanting to dilute the playerbase.. you don't think this would?

 

[Bomba Luigi]

In main menu after clicking start, there would only be another sub-menu: PvE or PvP and then the loading screen would pop immedietly after.
End of Story.

Hang on there, I bought this game because of the solo Option I would like to keep what I'm paying for.

 

[Neutronium]

If you get the person to leave.. you still accomplished your goal.. and from things I've heard.. sadly the jerks don't fear the Banhammer.. maybe it needs to be swung more often.

Well if the player gets so much offended by digital swearing cursing and bullying then what can I say? I wonder how this person is dealing with real life situations This game has a pegi rating of 7. Maby they should increase it to 18 ...
but then this will reduce the player base even more. oh Decisions, decisions ...

And you talk about not liking things because it dilutes the player base, yet you just said...
So I apologize, but if your not wanting to dilute the playerbase.. you don't think this would?

Well at least it is going to be a max of 2 groups. We already have hundred of thousand of groups especially if you count solo as a group of one.

PS: I just thought of something else: What if you leave it as it is and have an option to see ghost players from other groups? That way if someone from another group (a ghost cmdr) harasses you verbally you switch to invisible mode

 

[Jockey79]

Well I don't and the reason is not only that players are scattered in all different groups affecting the same universe but also because this universe is so huge so that splitting players in different groups is diluting the already diluted player base even more.

What you like and don't like is irrelevant, FD have to stay true to the core game they advertised and sold on KS.

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
*Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

To be blunt, no one here cares what you like or don't - what we care about is keeping what we paid for.
After all, what if you spent out on something and someone else at a later date got it taken off you for something you don't want - just because they can?

This is the game, as advertised right from the start - and it has been public knowledge from the start.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Well I don't and the reason is not only that players are scattered in all different groups affecting the same universe but also because this universe is so huge so that splitting players in different groups is diluting the already diluted player base even more.

This is fair enough.... everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem is (sorry i know it is a circular argument but in case you only just joined the ever turning wheel) these modes were an advertised feature in the game from as far back as 2012 and for many of us advertising this feature was an important part of why we backed the game. Asking this to be changed now, IF you got what you wanted would probably be as divisive as if FD suddenly decided to make the game in the 3rd person rather than the 1st.

Generally I would not buy a game which only offered playing in open all the time.... but playing with mates was a great selling point of the game. Me, I would have bought it if it was single player, but not all the friends i backed with would have. Also many of us do not always have the internet available to support open mode.

one of the things DB explained to us to lessen the blow of dropping offline support was that the game in solo only uses a few meg an hr. He even played it on a train tethered to a mobile phone. This would not work in open.

so for me the problem with changing it is4 fold.

1) players who generally like to play with friends in open but do not always have the internet connection to play in open all the time would be angry
2) players who generally like to play solo but will sometimes go into open to play with friends would be angry too.
3) players who always play in open, and sometimes like to play with friends who generally play in solo would also be angry
4) players who wanted an offline game but accepted FD's compromise of solo online would be doubly angry as they already got the thin end of the wedge once,.

yes you could argue.. sucks to be them! tough!,...... but I would say given it was an advertised feature then the fairer option is to say "sorry" to those who mode swapping ruins the game for because they went into the game with the option of knowing this was the case.

edit..... ninja'd I should have known Jockey would beat me to it on that one

 

[Neutronium]

Hang on there, I bought this game because of the solo Option I would like to keep what I'm paying for.

PS: I just thought of something else: What if you leave it as it is and have an option to see ghost players from other groups? That way if someone from another group (a ghost cmdr) harasses you verbally you switch to invisible mode

I believe this solves our solo friend worries as well. Just to clarify: In visibility mode you will be able to see all players even those who are in invisibility mode but you will not be able to talk to them.

Ok since I am trying to find a solution to cater for all tastes and since you people like to offer negative criticism to anything I (and many others before me) have said I am quiting the conversation.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I believe this solves our solo friend worries as well. Just to clarify: In visibility mode you will be able to see all players even those who are in invisibility mode but you will not be able to talk to them.

If I would want to see other players I would not play Solo

 

[ianw]

Well if the player gets so much offended by digital *^*&& and @#$@$# swearing cursing and bullying then what can I say? I wonder how this person is dealing with real life *^*&& and @#$@$# situations This game has a pegi rating of 7. Maby they should increase it to 18 ...
but then this will reduce the player base even more. oh Decisions, decisions ...

If you're going to invoke the dealing with real life comparison then why on earth are people getting so worked up about their imaginary progress compared to someone else's imaginary progress in a pretend space game?

 

[Theodrid]

Well if the player gets so much offended by digital *^*&& and @#$@$# swearing cursing and bullying then what can I say? I wonder how this person is dealing with real life *^*&& and @#$@$# situations This game has a pegi rating of 7. Maby they should increase it to 18 ...

Here is the thing though, people do not speak to each other that way in real life, well, extremely rarely, if at all. The reasons for this are social acceptability and the fact that they know they would get a smack in the mouth in real life, whereas hiding in their basement brings them the security to be a muppet. Believe it or not, many gamers try and bring their maturity, their decent upbringing and their social morals and manners with them into games, this, for me, is the right and mature approach, the 'others', (being polite), not so much.

 

[Mouse]

Well if the player gets so much offended by digital *^*&& and @#$@$# swearing cursing and bullying then what can I say? I wonder how this person is dealing with real life *^*&& and @#$@$# situations This game has a pegi rating of 7. Maby they should increase it to 18 ...
but then this will reduce the player base even more. oh Decisions, decisions ...



Well at least it is going to be a max of 2 groups. We already have hundred of thousand of groups especially if you count solo as a group of one.

PS: I just thought of something else: What if you leave it as it is and have an option to see ghost players from other groups? That way if someone from another group (a ghost cmdr) harasses you verbally you switch to invisible mode

People deal with foul mouthed situations all the time in real life, you expect them to accept it in games go play something else where the jerks aren't, plus there are people who play the game who have mental issues.. things can happen, emotions can be triggered especially for those who struggle to control them. Cyber Bullying sadly is real.


I would love to see a larger group of PVErs playing as long as they wanted to play together, if they want solo they should be able to have it, If someone is showing their child the game and has an extra copy.. they can create a group and wing up with them in a controlled environment.

And.. what would the point of "invisible" mode.. we have that already.. at least those in open claim it. Those of us who fly in other modes are a "ghost army" doing nefarious things to hurt open apparently. Most in Solo and even in PVE would turn on that mode from the start.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well I don't and the reason is not only that players are scattered in all different groups affecting the same universe but also because this universe is so huge so that splitting players in different groups is diluting the already diluted player base even more.

After the controversy around the removal of offline mode just before launch, I very much doubt that Frontier would change the three game modes for two reasons (at least):

1) Players unhappy with the deletion of offline mode were encouraged to use Solo online - therefore Solo cannot be removed.
2) The aftermath of the deletion of offline mode must have been a difficult time for Frontier (as well as those who were affected by said deletion) - refunds were made to a number of players.. This was due to the removal of a game feature (added part way through the Kickstarter phase) *before* launch. Having been through the offline situation, it is very unlikely that Frontier would consider removing core features (three game modes; single shared galaxy state; the ability to switch modes on a session-by-session basis) post launch.

 

[Mouse]

Here is the thing though, people do not speak to each other that way in real life, well, extremely rarely, if at all. The reasons for this are social acceptability and the fact that they know they would get a smack in the mouth in real life, whereas hiding in their basement brings them the security to be a muppet. Believe it or not, many gamers try and bring their maturity, their decent upbringing and their social morals and manners with them into games, this, for me, is the right and mature approach, the 'others', (being polite), not so much.

It is amazing how civil people can act when consequences suddenly appear.

 

[Neutronium]

If I would want to see other players I would not play Solo

Read a few paragraphs before...