Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Faded Glory]

i am sure that i am in the minority on this, but i have only killed one NPC and that was in the tutorial.
it took me almost an hour.

so the NPC's don't need to be any tougher than they are for me.

but now that i think about it, considering my success rate so far, tougher NPC's will be the same for me as they always have been.

Actually, I doubt you are alone in this.

Just as with this thread's subject matter, a few people always pop up saying that NPCs are way too easy and need to be made way harder. Right, easy to boast about one's prowess killing computer generated spaceships, and everyone else is (i'm sure) very impressed.

It's a game, if the NPCs are too difficult (or frustrating) to kill, then a third of the game, more probably, is rendered either unplayable, or at least not fun to play, which defeats it's object entirely. Likewise, if every time you are attacked by an NPC you are killed, I doubt you'll be logging on that often.

NPCs are our content, they should be manageable. Their abilities have increased over the last month or so (I'm not convinced the balancing is right just yet between the different ranks), but my own opinion is that FD need to tread a fine line between 'challenge' and 'content'. Just because something is difficult to do doesn't make it interesting, or in the case of a game, fun to do.

 

[Cody]

... FD need to tread a fine line between 'challenge' and 'content'. Just because something is difficult to do doesn't make it interesting, or in the case of a game, fun to do.

<nods sagely>

 

[Mouse]

Actually, I doubt you are alone in this.

Just as with this thread's subject matter, a few people always pop up saying that NPCs are way too easy and need to be made way harder. Right, easy to boast about one's prowess killing computer generated spaceships, and everyone else is (i'm sure) very impressed.

It's a game, if the NPCs are too difficult (or frustrating) to kill, then a third of the game, more probably, is rendered either unplayable, or at least not fun to play, which defeats it's object entirely. Likewise, if every time you are attacked by an NPC you are killed, I doubt you'll be logging on that often.

NPCs are our content, they should be manageable. Their abilities have increased over the last month or so (I'm not convinced the balancing is right just yet between the different ranks), but my own opinion is that FD need to tread a fine line between 'challenge' and 'content'. Just because something is difficult to do doesn't make it interesting, or in the case of a game, fun to do.

Well said Outta reps so +5 tons of Cubeo Razorback Bacon

 

[Imperial Guard]

This is the third post today that I say pretty much the same thing,

I have come to conclusion that ED is not really set up for PVP action at all.

Like the original in 1985, its a SOLO armed space trader game.
But now they have a CO-OP mode (Private Groups)
OPEN PLAY, is basically just an extension of CO-OP mode.

As a combat pilot looking purely for PVP interaction (includes co-op)
I can sit in Nanomam for hours and only see other imperials to wing with.
I can sit in a home control sys for hours and see no enemy at all to intercept - yet its being undermined anyway.
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

The only way to fight the enemy is to deliver more leaflets than them in SOLO mode..

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is the third post today that I say pretty much the same thing,

I have come to conclusion that ED is not really set up for PVP action at all.

Like the original in 1985, its a SOLO armed space trader game.
But now they have a CO-OP mode (Private Groups)
OPEN PLAY, is basically just an extension of CO-OP mode.

As a combat pilot looking purely for PVP interaction (includes co-op)
I can sit in Nanomam for hours and only see other imperials to wing with.
I can sit in a home control sys for hours and see no enemy at all to intercept - yet its being undermined anyway.
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

The only way to fight the enemy is to deliver more leaflets than them in SOLO mode..

It certainly does not revolve around PvP - nor require players to participate in PvP to gain any of the three Elite ranks.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well said Outta reps so +5 tons of Cubeo Razorback Bacon

Thanks Mouse. Just in time for lunch too.

 

[Imperial Guard]

Lol, flying is for droids

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

The only way to fight the enemy is to deliver more leaflets than them in SOLO mode..

Yep, some have seen the picture for quite a while. No point in patrolling as players could be in Open but in another instance, ditto no point in blockading. Yes, you have to deliver more leaflets (fortify I presume) than them in Solo, Group, Open but not in your instance, people playing when you are asleep or eating in any mode, or Xbox players since you'll never see them.

That's PP.

 

[DarkWalker]

I have come to conclusion that ED is not really set up for PVP action at all.

It's set up to allow PvP action between willing parties, but without ever forcing PvP. It's been like this since the early information drops, years ago. And, because of that, you have many players that will fight tooth and nail in the forums for the right to never be forced to fight players in the game

OPEN PLAY, is basically just an extension of CO-OP mode.

Yep. Open is merely Group mode where your group is everyone that isn't in a private group, and Solo is a private group of one. Everything builds upon Group mode.

I can sit in a home control sys for hours and see no enemy at all to intercept - yet its being undermined anyway.
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

AFAIK, blockading (by players) was never meant to be effective. Quite the contrary, the idea was that no one could force an unwilling player into any kind of direct interaction, including combat.

 

[Mouse]

This is the third post today that I say pretty much the same thing,

I have come to conclusion that ED is not really set up for PVP action at all.

Like the original in 1985, its a SOLO armed space trader game.
But now they have a CO-OP mode (Private Groups)
OPEN PLAY, is basically just an extension of CO-OP mode.

As a combat pilot looking purely for PVP interaction (includes co-op)
I can sit in Nanomam for hours and only see other imperials to wing with.
I can sit in a home control sys for hours and see no enemy at all to intercept - yet its being undermined anyway.
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

The only way to fight the enemy is to deliver more leaflets than them in SOLO mode..

Been stated Many times it is a PVE game with aspect of PVP added. but if you need PVP the CQC is for you.

 

[Sysmon]

Been stated Many times it is a PVE game with aspect of PVP added. but if you need PVP the CQC is for you.

I agree! CQC is awesome fun times PvP-wise. The ships are so brittle that you can, with a bit of luck and good positioning, take down an enemy many ranks above you. You WILL get slaughtered if you fly recklessly, though.

The instancing in the main game seems a bit wobbly still for proper PvP. But it is nice to meet other commanders at times though.

S

 

[Sylveria]

Been stated Many times it is a PVE game with aspect of PVP added. but if you need PVP the CQC is for you.

And as demonstrated in this thread (and many others) we could state it a thousand more times and the disbelievers will continue to try and push their agenda, unfortunately.

 

[Roybe]

This is the third post today that I say pretty much the same thing,

I have come to conclusion that ED is not really set up for PVP action at all.

Like the original in 1985, its a SOLO armed space trader game.
But now they have a CO-OP mode (Private Groups)
OPEN PLAY, is basically just an extension of CO-OP mode.

As a combat pilot looking purely for PVP interaction (includes co-op)
I can sit in Nanomam for hours and only see other imperials to wing with.
I can sit in a home control sys for hours and see no enemy at all to intercept - yet its being undermined anyway.
So combat patrol is waste of time, blockading is waste of time... see the pattern?

The only way to fight the enemy is to deliver more leaflets than them in SOLO mode..

oo ooo I know the answer!

Elite: Dangerous PvP is defined by groups collecting PvE trophies faster than the other side! Direct PvP is a diversion used for RP only and has no significant outcome on the game at hand!

Here's your cookie for learning the lesson!

Spoiler

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Been stated Many times it is a PVE game with aspect of PVP added. but if you need PVP the CQC is for you.

It is a PvE game, but it would be nice if the added PvP aspects would be better implemented, balanced, meaningful, with consequences and actually fun.
I hope that CQC will be fun, it sounds like fun. I don't think that it's enough.

Reading about CMDRs blocking the landing pad at Hutton Orbital shows the core problem: FD not knowing what players will do if they are allowed to do it. PvP only works for larger audiences if the players can only do things within a very strict rule set and with very heavy handed "law"* enforcement.



*) the game rules/laws, not the in-game rules/laws, but those could be used to enforce the game rules

 

[Roybe]

It is a PvE game, but it would be nice if the added PvP aspects would be better implemented, balanced, meaningful, with consequences and actually fun.
I hope that CQC will be fun, it sounds like fun. I don't think that it's enough.

Reading about CMDRs blocking the landing pad at Hutton Orbital shows the core problem: FD not knowing what players will do if they are allowed to do it. PvP only works for larger audiences if the players can only do things within a very strict rule set and with very heavy handed "law"* enforcement.



*) the game rules/laws, not the in-game rules/laws, but those could be used to enforce the game rules

Well...freedom allows for many things within a game like this. Although it is unfortunate many decide to play the at card regularly...it is just as easy to avoid those playing the card. I was around Hutton with some group members dropping free scrap for smaller ships and cleared out a player that was doing this.

Some feel this is bad design, others do not. This tug of war will continue to play out until one side or the other wins...or people stop playing in Open to avoid the possibility of this occurring, or enough players leave and the game ceases to exist. I really don't see there being a huge problem.

 

[relayer]

Yep. Open is merely Group mode where your group is everyone that isn't in a private group, and Solo is a private group of one.

You mean "the class of all classes that is not part of the given class" ?!?!?!??!

 

[Mouse]

It is a PvE game, but it would be nice if the added PvP aspects would be better implemented, balanced, meaningful, with consequences and actually fun.
I hope that CQC will be fun, it sounds like fun. I don't think that it's enough.

Reading about CMDRs blocking the landing pad at Hutton Orbital shows the core problem: FD not knowing what players will do if they are allowed to do it. PvP only works for larger audiences if the players can only do things within a very strict rule set and with very heavy handed "law"* enforcement.



*) the game rules/laws, not the in-game rules/laws, but those could be used to enforce the game rules

Fully agree with you, while I would not participate I would LOVE for there to be PVP to be fun for those that PVP.. that is why they have the CQC but that is only gladiatorial type pvp.. Balanced, meaningful, consequences, and fun, plus consenting would be great.

 

[Sylveria]

Well...freedom allows for many things within a game like this. Although it is unfortunate many decide to play the at card regularly...it is just as easy to avoid those playing the card. I was around Hutton with some group members dropping free scrap for smaller ships and cleared out a player that was doing this.

Good on you for holding them accountable for being an at. +1

If only more people would stand up like that- perhaps Open would be a different environment. Unfortunately it's swamped with the likes of those who strangle puppies, swing cats by their tails and other nonsense- whether it be they weren't held enough as children (or too much), etc.

 

[Dave1235]

oo ooo I know the answer!

Elite: Dangerous PvP is defined by groups collecting PvE trophies faster than the other side! Direct PvP is a diversion used for RP only and has no significant outcome on the game at hand!

Here's your cookie for learning the lesson!

Spoiler

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net..._cookie.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100726200146

Lol, when I read that post I thought of you, I know where I heard it first!

+1 for the scrap effort you (Hutton) Mug , inbound on run 15, I should go to bed now but ... the Mug !!!, the resonance is addictive, I hear music from my FSD (OK maybe its http://huttonorbital.com/HuttonOrbitalRadio.aspx)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Some feel this is bad design, others do not. This tug of war will continue to play out until one side or the other wins...or people stop playing in Open to avoid the possibility of this occurring, or enough players leave and the game ceases to exist. I really don't see there being a huge problem.

the problem is (IMV) is that it is too easy to play the ganker. IF I wanted I could pop to hutton right now in open and cause mahem. Sure, on my own i would get taken down or forced to jump out eventually - , but in a vulture/combat python my costs would be minimum where as the havok and time i could cost people in the mean time would be huge!.

but if i team up with 3 other like minded folk and there is probably little anyone could do to stop us, esp as we could just log off as soon as the cavalry did turn up and then find another instance.

The biggest joke is these people then play the "coward" or "care bear" card..... I mean come on really, who is a coward in this scenario , the pilot in a vulture/python blowing up all cargo ships they see with nothing to lose other than a ~800k insurance claim (in the vulture), or the pilot in the T6 with an insurance claim and upto 2 million in cargo (sometimes) ?.

it is wrong that being the ganker is the easiest "role" to play in the game. until that is fixed, open will never be an attractive mode to a huge number of players.
IF I was ganked in open, but i knew that the person doing it was now going to have a very hard time of it, at least that would give me some comfort, but knowing that person can just go on .... and on.... and on..... without any downsides at all is such a sad state of affairs. The stuff going on at hutton is so sad. At 1st it was a really friendly co-op experience, hell, its not exactly a money spinner but a bunch of folk were just working together having fun despite the lack of money...... until a small number of CMDRs decided to shoot em all up, the game has offered no protection at all... and more and more people are dropping to solo because it just is not fun for them any more.