Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Sylveria]

How about they just turn off Solo mode. How does that sparkle with you? Why would you think denying thousands of a players an integral functioning game-type would ever be a reasonable or valid suggestion? Just sounds lie a nuke it all option, highly unlikely to say the least

So that is my solution, get rid of Solo, everyone in Open, forced PvP whether you like it or not. Seems fair. Maybe have a solo commander if you want, but it is unattached to the main commander in open.

Or develop two Open modes, separate the economies/consequences and keep Solo for those who are uninterested in player interaction (you know, like Elite '84).

Oh gee, look we're back to square one again.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

6 Bans in 12 months.

Not bad going, but does highlight the clear flaw in the game that is supposed to have something for everyone.
PvE players who want to play with like minded folk might as well leave, no mode for them.

Well the mode was NEVER there from the start was it. so they may as well leave, given they have been mis-sold a product.

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Or develop two Open modes, separate the economies/consequences and keep Solo for those who are uninterested in player interaction (you know, like Elite '84.

Oh gee, look we're back to square one again.

Well it is better than just ditching PvP alltogether because a couple of forum members don't like it

 

[Robert Maynard]

So that is my solution, get rid of Solo, everyone in Open, forced PvP whether you like it or not. Seems fair. Maybe have a solo commander if you want, but it is unattached to the main commander in open.

That's not a new proposal - others have made demands, at various points in the debate, for Solo and Private Groups to be removed or, failing that, for commanders to be locked in to one mode (oh, and the shared galaxy state to be duplicated so that it is not affected by players locked in to another mode)....

Given that the debate has been running for well over two and a half years now - and that Frontier have repeatedly, recently, stated that all game modes are equal and valid - and that other platforms will share the same single galaxy state - I don't think that the core features in contention are likely to be changed - especially as the game has been launched for nearly nine months now.

 

[Sylveria]

(snip)
because a couple of forum members don't like it

Don't know if you're oversimplifying for emphasis or not... but in case you haven't been paying attention, there's thousands at the very least who joined Mobius for this very reason, not to mention quite a few more than a couple who've voiced their concerns versus non-consenting PvP.

I'd say that's more than "a couple".

Plus you'd have to add in those who play Solo only and don't bother participating on the forums at all (which equally, there's the number of pro-pvp'ers who are doing the same)...

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

That's not a new proposal - others have made demands, at various points in the debate, for Solo and Private Groups to be removed or, failing that, for commanders to be locked in to one mode (oh, and the shared galaxy state to be duplicated so that it is not affected by players locked in to another mode)....

Given that the debate has been running for well over two and a half years now - and that Frontier have repeatedly, recently, stated that all game modes are equal and valid - and that other platforms will share the same single galaxy state - I don't think that the core features in contention are likely to be changed - especially as the game has been launched for nearly nine months now.

It is still a great solution though. Perhaps FD DID say all game modes are equal and valid, but in practice this is not actually the case. This contentious and perennial debate is evidence enough of that. Also, this does not stop people suggesting that PvP be removed all together and placed with a PvE mode, so I will stand by my suggestion in the hope one day we will see some concessions. It may also be wroth mentioning we were told things like crafting, player factions etc.. were not part of the original vision. Yet they are coming... I think more than anything I would like to see some more rewards for players who participate in Open Goals, as Solo players already ARE rewarded with their easier game and lack of player interdiction. That would seem FAIR and BALANCED.. EDIT: Also, I was not aware my propositions were being misconstrued as "demands", merely talking about it in a public forum..

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Don't know if you're oversimplifying for emphasis or not... but in case you haven't been paying attention, there's thousands at the very least who joined Mobius for this very reason, not to mention quite a few more than a couple who've voiced their concerns versus non-consenting PvP.

I'd say that's more than "a couple".

Plus you'd have to add in those who play Solo only and don't bother participating on the forums at all (which equally, there's the number of pro-pvp'ers who are doing the same)...

Well then they have Moebius, they are using the "equally valid" gamemode to play it their way. Good for them! So people in Open play it the way FDEV intended, all good still. As another poster pointed out, this forum is a minority of the 825000 people ACTUALLY playing the game. If you want to avoid "non-consensual" PvP, there are other game modes that prevent players form interdicting you against your consent. When you enter Open right now, you are indicating that you are fine with PvP, as it is an integral and supported part of the game mode.

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[willowfan]

Supported, Yes.

Integral, No.

 

[Cody]

<sniggers>

 

[Asp Explorer]

If Solo is removed and Open becomes forced PvP then you can simply expect to see people lulzbanning so they can enjoy the game they want and purchased, and to grief the pew pews.

 

[Sylveria]

Le Sigh. I think the only way to resolution is if FD offers a poll in-game so that it catches all players input.

We could all go round-and-round (and round...) this thread and forum and still do nothing but waste time, because FD hasn't stated any intentions either way.

The "unsigned" consent for PvP is at best a supposition, same as "the game was designed around PvE" because there's no definitive proof either way of intent.

I'm done with arguing- my only intention is to recommend players have choices either way. Instead what we have is a fragmented game system which Open is stacked in favor of (but perhaps not intentionally) PvP, a Group mode which is broken to allow the same, and a Solo mode which many are unhappy with because it affects PP in Open mode.

I'm all for making concessions to make Open play "better", which would include an actual consequence/bounty system which disallows current exploits and offers more flavor in Open.

What I'm not going to sign off on is stripping player choice. ​​Period.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Currently that 'couple' is 11,500 members and growing. Your 'easier' game statement renders anything you say biased towards your own self aggrandisement and is thus irrelevant. Furthermore we do have player interaction, its just that its a positive and cooperative interaction.

The thing is, nobody is attacking Moebius, or claiming your group to be any less than an amazing place. They let you play the game how you want, so I see little need to take away the PvP mode others are already enjoying, like, the other 815000 people who are NOT part of Moebius.. They can jump between Open and Solo whenever they want, all equally valid game-modes. It may surprise you to earn that lots of non combat interaction takes place in Open play, but it has the added spice and danger of having to defend yourself against equally matched opponents, something the NPC's have failed to do (for me anyway). Either way, I doubt Open PvP is going anywhere, though posters are free to suggest it be reduced to a module. It just seems the majority non-alpha backer people who bought the game with an "Open PvP" mode would have a LOT to complain about. Either way, if you don;t get anything from PvP, that is your game and no problem. Play it your way

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Le Sigh. I think the only way to resolution is if FD offers a poll in-game so that it catches all players input.

We could all go round-and-round (and round...) this thread and forum and still do nothing but waste time, because FD hasn't stated any intentions either way.

The "unsigned" consent for PvP is at best a supposition, same as "the game was designed around PvE" because there's no definitive proof either way of intent.

I'm done with arguing- my only intention is to recommend players have choices either way. Instead what we have is a fragmented game system which Open is stacked in favor of (but perhaps not intentionally) PvP, a Group mode which is broken to allow the same, and a Solo mode which many are unhappy with because it affects PP in Open mode.

I'm all for making concessions to make Open play "better", which would include an actual consequence/bounty system which disallows current exploits and offers more flavor in Open.

What I'm not going to sign off on is stripping player choice. ​​Period.

As for proof, the fact it exists and always has, that is proof enough to me it was intended as part of the development. Even if the mechanisms of profit are built around PvE, that is irrelevant to someone who bought the game knowing they could fight other commanders in an Open Galaxy, as part of an interstellar power struggle. We could ask a dev, I am sure one would respond..

I agree though, I am all for increased consequence. The pattern of nerfing has been unsettling, and it hardly even costs anything for me to take my python round a hundred jumps and a bunch of res zones now, fuel and wear and tear is irrelevant now. The game needs to be far more challenging, in my opinion.

 

[Seonid]

This contentious and perennial debate is evidence enough of that.

It's actually the opposite - compare number of individual posters who want the modes split to the current number of players. All this thread proves is that repeated statements made by the game developer are completely ignored.

 

[ianw]

When you enter Open right now, you are indicating that you are fine with PvP, as it is an integral and supported part of the game mode.

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We see this claimed quite a bit.

It's true to say when you enter solo you should be aware that anything might happen.

But that isn't the same as saying you are "fine with PVP" or that you consent to anything happening or that you consent to interaction.

Not the same at all.

I also understand that someone might insult me over comms, or some sneaky pirates might use speed hacks eek - but I don't "consent" to those either.

You sound like you have a strange understanding of what "consent" is.

 

[Roybe]

From my experience in Powerplay, hitting the triggers and targets for your power is how you get things done and all that really matters.
No-one seems too bothered about which mode you use to do it, or how little or much time and points you put in.

Question for the "regulars" of this thread: is it always like this? I've only been posting in here for a few days, but it's the same done-to-death points going round and round!

Although, occasionally, someone might have an original thought...the main body is, as you see, an environment filled with the sound of a calliope:

Spoiler

 

[Faded Glory]

From my experience in Powerplay, hitting the triggers and targets for your power is how you get things done and all that really matters.
No-one seems too bothered about which mode you use to do it, or how little or much time and points you put in.

Question for the "regulars" of this thread: is it always like this? I've only been posting in here for a few days, but it's the same done-to-death points going round and round!

Yep. Pretty much.

 

[Sylveria]

The thing is, nobody is attacking Moebius, or claiming your group to be any less than an amazing place.

Your remark regarding "a couple of posters in this forum" says otherwise.

As for proof, the fact it exists and always has, that is proof enough to me it was intended as part of the development.

The same could be said for "offline mode" too- which was stripped from the game before release...

Even if the mechanisms of profit are built around PvE, that is irrelevant to someone who bought the game knowing they could fight other commanders in an Open Galaxy, as part of an interstellar power struggle. We could ask a dev, I am sure one would respond..

When you've gotten definitive proof from a Dev... let us know. I'm sure many of us are eager to see it.

 

[Seonid]

You sound like you have a strange understanding of what "consent" is.

It's simple, they decide whatever "consent" is and et voilà, you have "consented". Simples.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

We see this claimed quite a bit.

It's true to say when you enter solo you should be aware that anything might happen.

But that isn't the same as saying you are "fine with PVP" or that you consent to anything happening or that you consent to interaction.

Not the same at all.

I also understand that someone might insult me over comms, or some sneaky pirates might use speed hacks eek - but I don't "consent" to those either.

You sound like you have a strange understanding of what "consent" is.

So if you are not fine with PvP, why would you buy a game, and enter the Open mode in chich PvP can occur? As far as I am concerned, you "consent" when you enter the game mode. This is why FD do not punish people for PK in Open.

 

[ianw]

From my experience in Powerplay, hitting the triggers and targets for your power is how you get things done and all that really matters.
No-one seems too bothered about which mode you use to do it, or how little or much time and points you put in.

Question for the "regulars" of this thread: is it always like this? I've only been posting in here for a few days, but it's the same done-to-death points going round and round!

It's absolutely always like this!

Mostly we get along - even the regulars on different sides of the argument.

But every now and again someone new comes in - often merged - with a load of brand new (to them) opinions presented as irrefutable "facts" that have been covered many many times before and off we go again!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Your remark regarding "a couple of posters in this forum" says otherwise.

The same could be said for "offline mode" too- which was stripped from the game before release...

When you've gotten definitive proof from a Dev... let us know. I'm sure many of us are eager to see it.

I have proof from a game on my HDD called Elite Dangerous Also the same cannot be said for Offline mode. The game is in release now, and MANY more have purchased it since then.