Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Virgil9940]

I would ask for proof, how do you know? have you polled every PP member and asked them why they play PP and which mode they use? You are making a blanket statement with no data what so ever to back up your claims.

I can only think of 2 reasons of why you would ask for this.

1. You haven't looked at or have been paying attention to the way powerplay has been unfolding and therefore are unaware of how I could possibly come to that conclusion.
2. You are aware and decide to ignore common sense for the sake of... argument?

Or it could be something else. Let me know. I just might give you the (easy to find and obvious) proof if you aren't being intellectually dishonest.

 

[relayer]

That's harsh - can dump a hold full of some palladium your way if you want..

Me too - we could make it a mini-game CG!

 

[Robert Maynard]

I can only think of 2 reasons of why you would ask for this.

There's a simple third reason - when you made a definitive statement:

I said that players only looking to earn merits for rewards participate in PP using solo/private.

That requires either qualification as an opinion or proof.

 

[relayer]

Question for the "regulars" of this thread: is it always like this? I've only been posting in here for a few days, but it's the same done-to-death points going round and round!

Yup! That's why we can haz Bacon!!!!
*drops 1t of Cubeo Razorback*

 

[relayer]

Or is it deja-vu?

"It's déjà vu all over again" - Yogi Berra

 

[Jockey79]

"FD don't agree with better rewards in open at all - the quotes are in my Wall of Information in my Sig.
The competitions were locked to Open to help prevent accusations of "cheating" / "Exploiting""

Was still in Open , so my point still stands.

Your "point" was debunked long ago. FD do not favor any mode and 2 limited events do not constitute proof they do.
By that logic I can say they prefer PvE and mode switching as Power Play does nothing to encourage or reward PvP, but does PvE and is in all modes.
Plus with FD saying all modes are valid and they will not reward open over the other modes....

Your point is dead and buried.

"You insult anyone who uses Solo for any reason, by declaring they only do it due to wanting an "easier" game.
Some people use solo for technical reasons, others for medical reasons. If you're happy to belittle others, go right ahead, but don't expect them to be nice back."

Again, I have not insulted anyone. Insults are not allowed on this forum. If you feel I have insulted anyone, please report the post to a moderator and highlight the insult. They will punish me for it I am sure. At no point did I~ say "Solo players WANT an easier game", you are just putting words in my mouth. This is not an honest thing to do. Please can you quote me where I said that? What I DO say is that I would like a more CHALLENGING game, and that is not an insult to anyone who plays in solo. All game modes are equally valid. Do you not agree?

"as Solo players already ARE rewarded with their easier game"

As I said, Solo is not "easier" than Open. This has also been debunked.
You ARE being insulting - directly intentional or accidentally indirectly, but either way the end result is the same.
Different people use Solo for different reasons, there are people who use solo through not being able to use the other modes, so being told they are using some easy mode is unfair and out of order.

"Not taken anything personally, just fed up responding to people who refuse to read up or research a thread before posting in it.
You've added nothing new, just going back 3 pages before your first post or reading the first 2 pages would have shown that."

Then feel free not to respond to me. Your issue seems to be that I have not researched what constitutes an "insult". Again, I am merely discussing the gameplay mechanics and the consequences of what changes in those would mean. It is a public forum.

LOL, talk about deflection.

My "issue" is you didn't research the topic you are responding to, and making blatant false claims here.
The part about being insulting is separate, and you're refusing to accept that like you are refusing your points being countered ages ago.

Also, yes it is a public forum, so you should expect people to respond to you who disagree with you or challenge your bias debunked points.

"This thread is for modes, CQC is a mode, selected from the main menu - it's not a guilds thread and you've brought up guilds, really want to talk about who is off topic?"

It was just a slight diversion, and in my opinion it s relevant to the discussion of what it means for the different game modes. Again, if this is a problem you don;t have to respond.

You are the one who got snippy over the topic - while being off topic.

 

[relayer]

I still fail to see how my game is 'easier' because I shun pvp. That statement is clearly inflammatory by attempting to draw a distinction between opens 'harder' game and groups/solo 'easier' game. Yet the statement is allowed and we cannot challenge it? It is indeed self aggrandising to assume one style of game is harder than the other, as it tacitly presumes the player in open has to work harder. This is not the case at all.

It is also a kind-of wobbly position, given that one of the hoary old "answers" from That Side is "hey! You can just fly 400LY away and avoid the PvPers!" So, that makes it "easy mode" in open then? And so...

*keeps following the thread in the maze...*

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Your "point" was debunked long ago. FD do not favor any mode and 2 limited events do not constitute proof they do.
By that logic I can say they prefer PvE and mode switching as Power Play does nothing to encourage or reward PvP, but does PvE and is in all modes.
Plus with FD saying all modes are valid and they will not reward open over the other modes....

Your point is dead and buried.



"as Solo players already ARE rewarded with their easier game"

As I said, Solo is not "easier" than Open. This has also been debunked.
You ARE being insulting - directly intentional or accidentally indirectly, but either way the end result is the same.
Different people use Solo for different reasons, there are people who use solo through not being able to use the other modes, so being told they are using some easy mode is unfair and out of order.



LOL, talk about deflection.

My "issue" is you didn't research the topic you are responding to, and making blatant false claims here.
The part about being insulting is separate, and you're refusing to accept that like you are refusing your points being countered ages ago.

Also, yes it is a public forum, so you should expect people to respond to you who disagree with you or challenge your bias debunked points.



You are the one who got snippy over the topic - while being off topic.

"Your point is dead and buried. " - No my point was they themselves have in the past made open only features. Simple. Your insinuation my point is "dead and buried" is laughable. No need to get so upset over a mere point. Again, can you please find the quote where I claimed that ED favor one game mode over another? If that is the point that is dead and buried, it is not mine.

"You ARE being insulting - directly intentional or accidentally indirectly, but either way the end result is the same."

I never claimed they WANTED an easier game. It is my opinion the game is easier in solo than in open. Just an opinion, based on MY observations and my encounters. Again, you can feel insulted by my opinions all you want, they are not intended to hurt your feelings in any way. It is obviously an emotive issue for you. To me it is just a game. Perhaps you are confusing me with other people who have been unkind during debates in the past?

"LOL, talk about deflection."

I am not deflecting anything. YOu felt the need to inform me you are tired of responding. No one is forcing you to. I am just addressing your points one by one.

"My "issue" is you didn't research the topic you are responding to, and making blatant false claims here."

I have not made any false claims, merely discussed my opinions of the game modes. Again, sorry if this upset you.

 

[DarkWalker]

Question for the "regulars" of this thread: is it always like this? I've only been posting in here for a few days, but it's the same done-to-death points going round and round!

People were already posting about the perceived benefits and drawbacks of both the different modes and unlimited mode changing back in the first days of the Kickstart, nearly three years ago. About every possible argument for and against the modes and mode changing has already been made. I believe it's why the regulars here joke so much, kinda like a requirement to keep sane after so many repetitions.

Personally, if we were discussing a new game, one that hadn't yet made any promises about how it would play, either way would be viable; they have different consequences, different target player bases even, but both allow a good game to be made (though I still will never play anything that might subject me to non-consensual PvP). But ED has been promising and implementing the different modes and mode changing for years now; thus, IMHO, changing it now would be the equivalent of a NGE-scale blunder, driving away much of its current player base without a guarantee that it would attract a new one.

 

[relayer]

but in this thread...a joke like that could get out of hand quickly! ;P

Ya, I got an infarkshun for quoting 'Ferris Bueller's Day Off'

 

[DarkWalker]

"I never could understand what people like you see in plastering your name all over the game" - I have to wonder what you mean about "people like me", you mean people who play Elite?

More like people who would force others to either interact with or acknowledge them. But then, as long as I am able to ignore people like that, I'm fine.

"Your point is dead and buried. " - No my point was they themselves have in the past made open only features. Simple.

Wait, you are calling two competitions in a year, both having long ended, "features"? One of which never even had any in-game content or feature specifically made to support it, while the other was a mere marketing stunt? Boy, talk about setting the bar low.

 

[relayer]

No one is being "forced" to do anything.

Unfortunately, the widely-held options of most of the "fix open! solo is easy!" people revolve around either taking something away from solo mode ("no PP!") or "rewards" for playing in open, even when one of their "solutions" for "balancing the game" is "hey! Just go like 400LY away and you won't see anyone!" which seems like a Gordian Knot to many players. Then of course there are those who actually say "People should be forced into open to do (thing)." Yes, they do say it; go back about 100 pages and start reading; you'll see that particular point brought up again and again. You might also then understand people's objections to these suggestions.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

More like people who would force others to either interact with or acknowledge them. But then, as long as I am able to ignore people like that, I'm fine.


Wait, you are calling two competitions in a year, both having long ended, "features"? One of which never even had any in-game content or feature specifically made to support it, while the other was a mere marketing stunt? Boy, talk about setting the bar low.

Well you cannot ignore commanders who have discovered first systems. You will also see their faction name in the right when you dock. YOu wont be able to avoid it completely.

"Wait, you are calling two competitions in a year"

Two? i thought there was only one. You can argue whether they are "features" or not, i don't mind. I just said I personally would like to see more of that. I dont recall setting a bar for anything, but if you wish

 

[Cain Zendew]

The constant complaint that I see over and over again on threads like these is that privet groups and solo effect power play and such, and there is no way to counter-act what people are doing in them. They than drone on about how there should be no solo or privet group play. Only problem is lots of people don't care for pvp and just want to hook up with some friends without being hassled. If indeed, all the Pirates that I see complaining about it, only want it to not effect power play or other things going on in the galaxy, I don't see why effecting power play by solo or privet group can't be scaled back. If you are not online or in a privet group, I see no problem with what you do being less effective towards power play and other aspects of the community at large.

However there is a problem that I have not seen (Perhaps I've overlooked something?) anyone address: When the persistent galaxy of PC and Xbox are merged, you will already have aspects of people effecting the galaxy who will not be able to interact with each other just as if it were solo players or privet group players safely doing power play. FD have already stated that PC and Xbox players will share the galaxy in everything that entails except for actually being able to play with or against one another. So again as it currently stands, the argument to not allow privet groups or solo to effect the galaxy is pointless and null-and void, unless they change what they are doing on a fundamental level.

That's why I'd argue that making solo or privet groups unable to engage in shaping the galaxy pointless: It would only devalue the current game and give more reasons for players to move on to a different game. If you can't stop some PC players from putting forth a valiant effort and knocking out your leader from global position #1, whats the point in penalizing thous on xbox. If anything you'd want to keep the privet group and solo-ers out there who don't like pvp playing Power play and what not to help keep your power #1. As it stands all you end up doing is giving whatever the PC players prefer as #1 in the galaxy an advantage and a free pass to make the galaxy the way they want, making the xbox crowed's choices in power play pointless.

Anyway you look at it when this game launches full retail, you will have aspects of people effecting the galaxy largely unchallenged PVP wise. The only solution I see is to adapt and use solo or privet groups to your powers advantage as PC players will be doing this defacto: Not because it's fair or right, but because there is no interaction between PC players and Xboxers. It's not a player problem, but a problem with the way the game is set up.

 

[Mouse]

I can only think of 2 reasons of why you would ask for this.

1. You haven't looked at or have been paying attention to the way powerplay has been unfolding and therefore are unaware of how I could possibly come to that conclusion.
2. You are aware and decide to ignore common sense for the sake of... argument?

Or it could be something else. Let me know. I just might give you the (easy to find and obvious) proof if you aren't being intellectually dishonest.

Or it could be that as an analyst I know that when a claim is made that unless there is actual data to back up said claim then it is unfounded. You said " I said that players only looking to earn merits for rewards participate in PP using solo/private. " but you have no way to prove it.. you offer the statement as a fact when all it is, is your opinion. You speak of common sense but fail to apply it to yourself. When you have an agenda you supply information to support your view, but you need to make sure it is factual.

That brings me back to one of my original points that players only looking to earn merits for rating, faction rewards, and other faction related bonuses participate in PP in solo/private so as to grind unhindered which directly affects power standings which affects all players belonging to the same power and other powers.

You statement is a half truth if anything, Now why would you leave out the obvious common sense part where they do this in open as well. Which is why I ask for proof.. which you tried to deflect.. because you don't have any. You made an assumption and ran with it, and when questioned about it try to deflect from the question.

People keep trying to "prove" that Solo/private are damaging PP and unfair to PVP.. every time the argument has been countered. You made a claim and I am asking you to back up that claim.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Unfortunately, the widely-held options of most of the "fix open! solo is easy!" people revolve around either taking something away from solo mode ("no PP!") or "rewards" for playing in open, even when one of their "solutions" for "balancing the game" is "hey! Just go like 400LY away and you won't see anyone!" which seems like a Gordian Knot to many players. Then of course there are those who actually say "People should be forced into open to do (thing)." Yes, they do say it; go back about 100 pages and start reading; you'll see that particular point brought up again and again. You might also then understand people's objections to these suggestions.

I don't want to take anything away from solo mode, I just need to make that clear in case anyone is confused. No one should be forced into open. People can object to such suggestions all they want, but at no point am i intending to insult anyone. If they felt insulted by my observations, well I don;t think I have violated any of the rules here. Out if interest, they may introduce a competition for CQC players that does not involve NPC's. Do you think that would be unfair? I personally do not, and I have no desire to play CQC.

 

[Mouse]

There's a simple third reason - when you made a definitive statement:



That requires either qualification as an opinion or proof.

Ninja'd by Robert ^,^

 

[relayer]

That is a good attitude. I fear so many were just "hoping for the Worst", given they were so opposed to the feature.

Most people objecting to Guilds in this game are actually concerned about "ownership of space." Particularly everyone salivating over thoughts of setting up a "Guild Hall" on, say, Lave or any of the Rares circuits. Thankfully, the devs have stated that "no one will be able to 'own space' many times.

 

[Skyrun]

Do you want a Open PvE?

Personally I say yes but I don't want to discuss in this thread - there are many threads already about this topic.

But what I would like to see is how many want it and how many not. So let's not discuss here about it - just vote.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Most people objecting to Guilds in this game are actually concerned about "ownership of space." Particularly everyone salivating over thoughts of setting up a "Guild Hall" on, say, Lave or any of the Rares circuits. Thankfully, the devs have stated that "no one will be able to 'own space' many times.

A good point. I always argued there were ways to set this up so as to be fair and balanced, and that we COULD have player factions and still keep an open universe. It is good to see the devs found a way.