Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Robert Maynard]

Yep, join a wing or go it alone.

.... or play in Solo or Private Groups.

All three game modes have been part of the stated game design since the very beginning....

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.


The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.


Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).
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How does multiplayer work?

You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) some of the other ships you meet as you travel around are real players as opposed to computer-controlled ships. It may be a friend you have agreed to rendezvous with here, or it may be another real player you have encountered by chance. All players will be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” – that is how they are distinguished from non-players – so you will be able to tell who is a player and who is a non-player easily.

You will be able to save your position in certain key places (probably just in space stations, but possibly while in hyperspace too, if we feel it is needed). A save-and-quit option will be freely available at those points, as will the subsequent reload, but there will be a game cost for a reload following player death. Your ship will still be intact in the condition it was when the save occurred, but there will be a game currency charge (referred to as an insurance policy) for this. This is to prevent the obvious exploit of friends cooperating and killing each other to get each other’s cargo. If you can’t pay, then it will accumulate as an in-game debt, and the police may chase you!

There are no multiplayer lobbies, and the game will be played across many servers, augmented by peer-to-peer traffic for fast responses. Session creation and destruction happens during the long-range hyperspace countdown and hyperspace effect (which is a few seconds only), so is transparent to the player.

We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.
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[Robert Maynard]

There is actually no reason why that line can't be applied to Open mode, particularly since it appears under the heading Massively Multiplayer.

It can apply to Open as well as Solo and Private Groups. See the FAQ in my previous post.

 

[Jockey79]

There is actually no reason why that line can't be applied to Open mode, particularly since it appears under the heading Massively Multiplayer.

Correct;

Fly alone, in your own island instance
Fly alone, in a shared island instance
Fly alone, in a randomly connected island instance

They all work.

 

[Phosphora]

You forgot: "Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy....".

The diversity makes the game for me.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

There is actually no reason why that line can't be applied to Open mode, particularly since it appears under the heading Massively Multiplayer.

PEGI7. That is all.

 

[ianw]

This is how Frontier describe Elite on their website - WHAT IS ELITE : DANGEROUS

Lets pick out the bits that would make me go YEAH! and purchase the game
Massively Multiplayer Space epic
Connected Galaxy
Entire Milky Way
Do whatever it takes
Massively multiplayer space
Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy
Unpredicable encounters with people from around the world

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Much of that is subjective.

But I could easily argue all of that is what we have.

Space - yes
Multiplayer - yes
Epic - I think so
Galaxy - yes
Connected - ??? err, yes?
Do whatever it takes - meaningless
Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy - factually correct - sort of obvious really
Unpredictable encounters from around the world - yes - have played with people from loads of different countries and I didn't know what they were going to do.

 

[Roybe]

Unpredictable encounters from around the world - yes - have played with people from loads of different countries and I didn't know what they were going to do.

This seems to be exacerbated on Friday nights when someone called Guinness and Jameson visit the friends of my group. I am uncertain what these two folks do...but it generally results in people saying...'Hey man, watch this!'

 

[Mouse]

I think this is a rather accurate view on open for some...just put it in space and replace Zombies with NPC's


http://imgur.com/gallery/BNXB3qw

 

[ianw]

This seems to be exacerbated on Friday nights when someone called Guinness and Jameson visit the friends of my group. I am uncertain what these two folks do...but it generally results in people saying...'Hey man, watch this!'

Yes - they're a bit dodgy those two. I also hear that Jack Daniels is another troublemaker along with the Wray & Nephew guys who can be a serious handful!

 

[Jockey79]

PEGI7. That is all.

As some people won't understand, let me help you out there buddy



http://www.pegi.info/en/index/id/33/



https://www.elitedangerous.com/

So, us over 18 people want to play in "adult modes".
However, when training young pilots - some of us don't want to subject under 18s to over 18s behaviour.

It's a safe assumption, long time fans of the franchise are over 18 (as the first one was 30 years ago) and would like to teach their under 18s the joys of Elite.
Without the risk of bumping in to some of you lot

 

[Roybe]

As some people won't understand, let me help you out there buddy

View attachment 64198

http://www.pegi.info/en/index/id/33/

View attachment 64199

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

So, us over 18 people want to play in "adult modes".
However, when training young pilots - some of us don't want to subject under 18s to over 18s behaviour.

It's a safe assumption, long time fans of the franchise are over 18 (as the first one was 30 years ago) and would like to teach their under 18s the joys of Elite.
Without the risk of bumping in to some of you lot

All online games come with the warning that 'multiplayer interactions cannot be controlled by the developers, and might result in the rating being wrong'. Another good reason to have Solo or Private group modes though...solid parental control of the result of gamete collision and survival.

 

[Jockey79]

All online games come with the warning that 'multiplayer interactions cannot be controlled by the developers, and might result in the rating being wrong'. Another good reason to have Solo or Private group modes though...solid parental control of the result of gamete collision and survival.

Well, just because games come with the warnings - does not mean people have read them or understand them.
Also not happy over how much scrolling I had to do on the ED site to get to that part, I feel that should be at the top of the page not hidden away right at the bottom where it may not get noticed.

Then again, I keep saying each person is responsible for their own research of a product before buying it.

Also, under 18s should be supervised - but not all parents are vigilant over what happens on a computer.
And not all parents understand computers at all. So lots of variables to consider when making / rating a game.

Welcome to Open;

 

[DarkWalker]

Lets pick out the bits that would make me go YEAH! and purchase the game

Yeah, let's do it.

Massively Multiplayer Space epic

It's a space epic and it does have massively multiplayer built-in. Both in the more generic meaning of a large amount of players connected at the same time, and when choosing Open or a large enough Group also in the "you can meet a lot of people" sense.

By the way, Massively Multiplayer is a very vague term. World of Tanks, for example, is considered one, despite being basically a lobby-based Arena PvP game. The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot is also sold as one, because there is a massive number of players simultaneously connected and braving each other's dungeons, even though the game is basically solo only. And those aren't even that much of an exception; don't expect everything advertised as a MMO to make every player visible for each other like EVE.

Connected Galaxy

It is connected. In fact, one of the common complaints of those that defend Open is that even Solo and Group use the same connected galaxy.

Entire Milky Way
Do whatever it takes

This doesn't require Open, or even Online, at all.

Massively multiplayer space

Both Open and Group (with a large enough group) fulfill this.

Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy

Another one that doesn't depend on multiplayer at all.

Unpredicable encounters with people from around the world

Again, both Open and Group fulfill this.


Now, a little question: where does it say that PvP is unavoidable? Any place at all? Given that making PvP optional is nowadays the rule rather than the exception, expecting a game to enforce PvP without it explicitly stating so is a huge logical leap.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

As some people won't understand, let me help you out there buddy

View attachment 64198

http://www.pegi.info/en/index/id/33/

View attachment 64199

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

So, us over 18 people want to play in "adult modes".
However, when training young pilots - some of us don't want to subject under 18s to over 18s behaviour.

It's a safe assumption, long time fans of the franchise are over 18 (as the first one was 30 years ago) and would like to teach their under 18s the joys of Elite.
Without the risk of bumping in to some of you lot

Elite is only rated for 7 year old in Europe? It's rated Teen in the U.S.

 

[DaveB]

It completely makes the concept of solo useless and is basically a forced Open Mode through the backdoor. I play solo if I don't want any other players in my game. I don't want to get bothered by their made-up-excuses-RP or silly pseudo-"honor" or other things some players come up. Sometimes I really don't care about that and I really don't want to be bothered with it. That's the whole point of Solo Mode for me.

Are players really so desperate because nobody wants to play with them that they need yet an other a way to force their will onto others even if those explicitly don't want to play with them?

I have to disagree. Now I'm saying this as somebody who plays in all 3 modes according to my mood.

A "tracking beacon" that can override your matchmaking preference and let its owner be matched with you no matter your mode (for a limited time - more on that later) would pretty much be the answer to almost every argument on these three megathreads. It would just have to be designed carefully. The point is, to have a beacon attached to your hull in the first place, you had to be in a mode other than solo for it to happen. If I were in the mood to play open, but then encountered some unsavory types and relogged in a different mode to avoid them then I am indulging in exactly the behavior the PvP types call an "exploit" (although it isn't) and those of us multi-mode players always groan about when such behavior is brought up as a reason why "the modes should be separate!" Most of us don't fly that way, we pick our play mode on a per-session basis depending on our mood at the time.

With the following constraints I think this concept could work very well...

1: it only overrides matchmaking for the guy who attached it to you. If he's in a wing, he doesn't bring his wingmates along on his coat-tails (wings will obviously get around this by putting tracking beacons on each other but that's easy to code around too) This is perhaps the least critical of the conditions I'm setting out here, the others are much more important.

2: If you can make N jumps without appearing on the scanner of the guy who placed the tracker, they've lost you and the tracker expires. N can be set to whatever number FD determine but I would say 4 would be a good number.

3: It doesn't persist past ship destruction. Even if they track you and blow your ship they blew the beacon along with it. Even if they are a hardcore PvPer out for your scalp they only get to you ONCE.

4: It can't expose you to a higher "level of openness" than you had at the time it attached to your hull. If you were in open, then it doesn't matter what mode you're in - he can be instanced with you unless he has taken himself into a private group or solo. If you were in a private group, the tracker only overrides matchmaking if he's in open or in a private group that both of you are members of, if he's in a group you're not in or in solo then he's turned off his tracker.

5: after T real-time duration it goes away anyway. This would be measured in hours, possibly minutes but definitely not days.

Something like that would make this entire triple threadnaught moot, because to be exposed to it you had to be in a "multiplayer" mode in the first place. If you're a totally solo player you'll never see it. If you mix solo and private groups then you'll only see it in the private groups and it can only expose you to the equivalent "risk" faced by yourself and another member of the same group. YOU set which players you are prepared to maybe track you by the modes you play in.

With that in place the "Hardcore PvPers" can't scream "WAAAAH! mode-switching 'sploit!" (well they can but they'll look ridiculous) and the REAL PvPers get a chance for a second bite at somebody who combat-logs on them while folks doing mostly or even exclusively PvE get to go their own way unmolested by any but NPCs. (Not that that's exactly a good thing given SJA's mile-wide evil streak )

 

[Mouse]

I have to disagree. Now I'm saying this as somebody who plays in all 3 modes according to my mood.

A "tracking beacon" that can override your matchmaking preference and let its owner be matched with you no matter your mode (for a limited time - more on that later) would pretty much be the answer to almost every argument on these three megathreads. It would just have to be designed carefully. The point is, to have a beacon attached to your hull in the first place, you had to be in a mode other than solo for it to happen. If I were in the mood to play open, but then encountered some unsavory types and relogged in a different mode to avoid them then I am indulging in exactly the behavior the PvP types call an "exploit" (although it isn't) and those of us multi-mode players always groan about when such behavior is brought up as a reason why "the modes should be separate!" Most of us don't fly that way, we pick our play mode on a per-session basis depending on our mood at the time.

With the following constraints I think this concept could work very well...

1: it only overrides matchmaking for the guy who attached it to you. If he's in a wing, he doesn't bring his wingmates along on his coat-tails (wings will obviously get around this by putting tracking beacons on each other but that's easy to code around too) This is perhaps the least critical of the conditions I'm setting out here, the others are much more important.

2: If you can make N jumps without appearing on the scanner of the guy who placed the tracker, they've lost you and the tracker expires. N can be set to whatever number FD determine but I would say 4 would be a good number.

3: It doesn't persist past ship destruction. Even if they track you and blow your ship they blew the beacon along with it. Even if they are a hardcore PvPer out for your scalp they only get to you ONCE.

4: It can't expose you to a higher "level of openness" than you had at the time it attached to your hull. If you were in open, then it doesn't matter what mode you're in - he can be instanced with you unless he has taken himself into a private group or solo. If you were in a private group, the tracker only overrides matchmaking if he's in open or in a private group that both of you are members of, if he's in a group you're not in or in solo then he's turned off his tracker.

5: after T real-time duration it goes away anyway. This would be measured in hours, possibly minutes but definitely not days.

Something like that would make this entire triple threadnaught moot, because to be exposed to it you had to be in a "multiplayer" mode in the first place. If you're a totally solo player you'll never see it. If you mix solo and private groups then you'll only see it in the private groups and it can only expose you to the equivalent "risk" faced by yourself and another member of the same group. YOU set which players you are prepared to maybe track you by the modes you play in.

With that in place the "Hardcore PvPers" can't scream "WAAAAH! mode-switching 'sploit!" (well they can but they'll look ridiculous) and the REAL PvPers get a chance for a second bite at somebody who combat-logs on them while folks doing mostly or even exclusively PvE get to go their own way unmolested by any but NPCs. (Not that that's exactly a good thing given SJA's mile-wide evil streak )

Sadly I wish it would get rid of the threadnaught, but sadly you have those who believe Open is the epitome of Elite and the other modes are some lecherous creatures that feed off of it and weaken it and need to be destroyed to preserve the sanctity of their Open .

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Elite is only rated for 7 year old in Europe? It's rated Teen in the U.S.

That is correct Jordan. It's our puritan views on drug use that pushed it to teen in the USA, because you know, Onionhead is a gateway...ah...nevermind. Throughout the rest of the 1st world, which didn't throw their arms up over the space drugs that exist only in cargo holds, it's for 7 year olds and up. The salient part of all of this is that it guarantees solo mode in perpetuity no matter what. You can't have unrestricted communication and maintain a PEGI7 rating.

- - - Updated - - -

As some people won't understand, let me help you out there buddy

View attachment 64198

http://www.pegi.info/en/index/id/33/

View attachment 64199

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

So, us over 18 people want to play in "adult modes".
However, when training young pilots - some of us don't want to subject under 18s to over 18s behaviour.

It's a safe assumption, long time fans of the franchise are over 18 (as the first one was 30 years ago) and would like to teach their under 18s the joys of Elite.
Without the risk of bumping in to some of you lot

The graphic was much appreciated. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

All online games come with the warning that 'multiplayer interactions cannot be controlled by the developers, and might result in the rating being wrong'. Another good reason to have Solo or Private group modes though...solid parental control of the result of gamete collision and survival.

Correct, which is why all games with open coms are automatically pushed to higher ratings. The game could not have a gotten the PEGI7 without solo which lacks coms. Hence the solo guarantee.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

That is correct Jordan. It's our puritan views on drug use that pushed it to teen in the USA, because you know, Onionhead is a gateway...ah...nevermind. Throughout the rest of the 1st world, which didn't throw their arms up over the space drugs that exist only in cargo holds, it's for 7 year olds and up. The salient part of all of this is that it guarantees solo mode in perpetuity no matter what. You can't have unrestricted communication and maintain a PEGI7 rating.

Ah that makes sense. We do take kinda a hard stance on drug use.

The ironic thing about unrestricted communication and protecting kids from bad language is, it's mostly the young kids that use bad language in online games. Playing halo online like 8 years ago, I learned more profanity from 8-14 year olds than I learned in my 20 years of life up to that point.

 

[Roybe]

Sadly I wish it would get rid of the threadnaught, but sadly you have those who believe Open is the epitome of Elite and the other modes are some lecherous creatures that feed off of it and weaken it and need to be destroyed to preserve the sanctity of their Open .

Well Mouse I have seen others take the exact opposite stance..so it must be a balanced game, since everyone is complaining about the same issue from all sides! ;P

- - - Updated - - -

Ah that makes sense. We do take kinda a hard stance on drug use, violence fine, but drug use, even implied is not ok.

The ironic thing about unrestricted communication and protecting kids from bad language is, it's mostly the young kids that use bad language in online games. Playing halo online like 8 years ago, I learned more profanity from 8-14 year olds than I learned in my 20 years of life up to that point.

God forbid someone would mention sex in all the vices in this galaxy!

 

[Faded Glory]

Well Mouse I have seen others take the exact opposite stance..so it must be a balanced game, since everyone is complaining about the same issue from all sides! ;P

I guess there may be some, Roybe, but most on the Solo / Group / (choice) mode aren't actually complaining about Open, just defending the status quo. After all, most of us are quite happy with the game as it is, at least in so far as the modes go...