Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Roybe]

I am not sure where you see Mobius heading tbh. I am fairly sure though that this thread would probably not be if FD had developed the game the way they originally envisaged as regards open play.
This old horse is now on its 3rd iteration and is heading no doubt for its maximum length and so a fourth will no doubt sprout it's ugly head.
You cannot tell me that the Devs and DB are not aware of this hydra of a thread nought, and that they are unaware that it is their lack of action and direction they originally planned on taking, then totally ignored, is what has been directly responsible for its original inception and continuing rebirth

I see Mobius heading for lots more players joining. There has been no slow down to that groups growth and will continue to grow at a steady rate. I meant nothing political or untoward. Just that it will continue to grow and continue to provide the PvE option the game does not. This is not what a player group should be doing. This should be an option the game provides as a choice designed and controlled by the devs.

This discussion, is different from the Open vs. discussion. The Open vs discussion is regardless of the reasoning is never going to change. The devs have clearly stated our opinions do not matter and the case is closed.

The PvE Open mode is a request for a mode addition. If this addition is a non-negotiable issue then it would be best for the devs to state so..which means that they are trying to use player interaction as the carrot and stick for playing in the various modes. If you want large scale interaction, then by design you have to play in Open. Otherwise, your interactions are limited by choosing to play elsewhere...and again, Mobius is breaking the reward system...by providing a large scale area that provides an interaction that is not designed within the choices offered by the devs, due to it's lack of being a choice on the starting menu.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

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Even if in game crime punishment was tougher, it would still be there. DB wants people to be able to play bad guys. ( Play their way )
PVE players would still want all of the player content of Open with none of the risk from PVP.
Which then brings us back to this thread and a new arc of circular posts.

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Give them their Open PvE mode and be happy that they don't post "Bad pirate did bad thing to me" on an almost daily basis. You already mentioned that there are enough players in Open Mode (Open PvP Mode). Everybody would know exactly what to expect. Everybody could play the way they want.

Wouldn't that be good for PvP and PvE players?

 

[Asp Explorer]

True. But I have yet to see an adequately comprehensive answer here either.

I honestly doubt such an answer even exists.

Just to clarify - PVP and PVE are both equally valid, peeps just have to be free to choose what they want at any given time. Neither is "better" than the other.

 

[Mouse]

True. But I have yet to see an adequately comprehensive answer here either.

Asking for a Opn PVE to counter the Open PVP one or advertising on the start screen where people who want PVE and not PVP can go is not an adequately comprehensive answer?

 

[Jockey79]

Give them their Open PvE mode and be happy that they don't post "Bad pirate did bad thing to me" on an almost daily basis.

We'd still get that.

Seen a rant post a few weeks ago, turned out in the screen shot - it was an NPC that got them.

 

[Belzmort]

PVE players would still want all of the player content of Open with none of the risk from PVP.

What is this content that you speak of? What does Open have content wise that doesn't appear in groups/solo? PVP? Nope not interested. Blockades? This appears to be very hit and miss dependant on who you speak to.

I am genuinely curious as to what content I missing by not playing in Open.

 

[Kerrash]

I am sure someone would still find a way to hate that conclusion Mouse

 

[Majinvash]

Asking for a Opn PVE to counter the Open PVP one or advertising on the start screen where people who want PVE and not PVP can go is not an adequately comprehensive answer?

Open isn't a PVP mode.

Its just Open

400 BILLION STAR SYSTEMS. INFINITE FREEDOM. BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

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What is this content that you speak of? What does Open have content wise that doesn't appear in groups/solo? PVP? Nope not interested. Blockades? This appears to be very hit and miss dependant on who you speak to.

I am genuinely curious as to what content I missing by not playing in Open.

There has been so so much.

But the most recent which actually involved Frontier Development

[video=youtube;AqS_RFJeE_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqS_RFJeE_Q[/video]

This was not scripted or planned. Not by Ed anyway

You might get that in a Private but not in Mobius.. You wouldn't get it in Solo.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Noddie]

Just out of curiosity, how might open pve vs open pvp differ?

A simple way would be to say that all pilots federation ships carry fofar and will refuse to fire on, or crash into, any other pf (IE human) ship. Totally disable pvp, whilst leaving pve untouched.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

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But the most recent which actually involved Frontier Development
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And the convoy was for Open/Group and Solo. Obviously only in some instances in Open Mode did pirates interdict truckers.

 

[Roybe]

Even if in game crime punishment was tougher, it would still be there. DB wants people to be able to play bad guys. ( Play their way )
PVE players would still want all of the player content of Open with none of the risk from PVP.
Which then brings us back to this thread and a new arc of circular posts.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I disagree the avoidance of PVP is about risk. Or fear. A lot of people just want to play 'together' rather than 'against'. The only reason this gets circular is the way the two sides look at this idea. For most PvE people the avoidance isn't the issue, it's the intrusion. Thinking about it a little differently, it's like building a sand castle with friends on a public beach and having another group come over and rather than help build and add to it, somehow change the dynamic between the builders and interrupt them (yes this could be knock over the sand castle, but it could also be to convince some of the builders to come and play football, purposely breaking the group, and leaving the others to continue on without their friends...which causes problems in a different way).


Not sure if the analogy is good, but the idea of people not PvP'ing to avoid 'risk', 'death', etc. is bordering on insult. It insinuates 'fear of'...which is not the issue.

I agree that DB expects people to play bad guys and that the game provides this ability. However, there is supposed to be outcomes to doing so...and there are. However, the argument can be made, that regardless of NPC or PC, these punishments are not providing the outcomes they should...at least a feeling of difference between secure and insecure areas. This could be enhanced. Again, it won't prevent illegalities from occurring...but it would make them more 'meaningful' for those that commit them.

 

[Majinvash]

And the convoy was for Open/Group and Solo. Obviously only in some instances in Open Mode did pirates interdict truckers.

So you are saying Solo or Group didn't get this content? That is true. Shame, it was great content.

Because Open mode did... As you can see from the Video.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I disagree the avoidance of PVP is about risk. Or fear. A lot of people just want to play 'together' rather than 'against'. The only reason this gets circular is the way the two sides look at this idea. For most PvE people the avoidance isn't the issue, it's the intrusion. Thinking about it a little differently, it's like building a sand castle with friends on a public beach and having another group come over and rather than help build and add to it, somehow change the dynamic between the builders and interrupt them (yes this could be knock over the sand castle, but it could also be to convince some of the builders to come and play football, purposely breaking the group, and leaving the others to continue on without their friends...which causes problems in a different way).


Not sure if the analogy is good, but the idea of people not PvP'ing to avoid 'risk', 'death', etc. is bordering on insult. It insinuates 'fear of'...which is not the issue.

…

I think it is one of the best descriptions of the problem I've read in this threads.

 

[Jockey79]

I disagree the avoidance of PVP is about risk. Or fear. A lot of people just want to play 'together' rather than 'against'.

That is the bit some refuse to grasp.

 

[Mouse]

I am sure someone would still find a way to hate that conclusion Mouse

Oh I am sure there will be someone who goes into the PVE area and gripes because they can't shoot people or claims that PVP open is harder so they deserve more rewards.. you can never get rid of people who want to be dissatisfied. I mean heck.. how many pvpers have said this game is dead and sucks..

or what I saw last night.. someone on the wiki complaining about silent running because he has played 40 plus hours and hit the button but couldn't find the button to unclick it and blew up.. and declared he was leaving the game because the game sucks and such mechanics are broken... yet as it was pointed out to him, he's played for 40 hours and never bothered to learned his controls or even go into controls to look for how to turn silent running on or off and his death was his own fault.



You cannot satisfy everyone, but trying to find a middle ground would be nice. When I joined this megathreadnaught series I was looking for a multi-player PVE option as I wanted to play but not be relegated to solo only. I've stayed in the mega threads because after reading all the ones before it I saw an alarming trend... of people trying to disrupt the balance of the game by weakening other modes or by trying to artificially inflate Open as the "only real mode". I like this game too much to see it messed up so bad.. yes I played Eve and left it because of what it became.. personally I don't want to see ED become that even though there are PVPers who seem to thrive on trying to create "Eve in a cockpit".

PVPers and PVErs can play in harmony in the game using the modes they want to use, but sadly one side keeps trying to disrupt the other and won't let their be harmony.. so I stay and fight to keep ED a fun game and to try and keep it balanced.

 

[Asp Explorer]

That is the bit some refuse to grasp.

Oh they grasp it allright They simply see it as being somehow unworthy.

 

[Majinvash]

I disagree the avoidance of PVP is about risk.

There is nothing we do, that an NPC doesn't also do. There have even been threads recently saying that NPC pirates are too aggressive.

We just do it a lot better and people get bent out of shape because they are upset because another human did it to them.

I'm not saying attacking a lone T6 with a wing on Anacondas is fair. But it could happen with NPC's and you would have just as much chance of ending up in the re-buy screen.

Sadly it doesn't happen as much because NPC's are set at a really easy level, so that people can beat them and not get bent out of shape over that.

I would have no fear about running a shieldless T9 anywhere in solo, I wouldn't in some areas in Open.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

So you are saying Solo or Group didn't get this content? That is true. Shame, it was great content.

Because Open mode did... As you can see from the Video.

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I'm saying that the convoy was organized for Open/Group/Solo. Players had fun in all modes. Part of the content was available to all, part of the content was only available to a few in the right/wrong instance. Only in certain Open Mode instances pirates interacted with truckers.

It's up to the player to decide if that interaction is something the player wants and finds enjoyable.


BTW: I've seen the video - highly entertaining, but I guess maybe not for the reasons why you think the video is entertaining. I was part of the convoy in Open Mode. A lot of fun. Just like the first convoy and the Cobra vs. Viper event.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I have a MUCH higher opinion of gamers than you.

Sure some would leave, as I am sure you and others on this thread will swear to being one of them.

Many others would just learn from and get better at the game.

People are a lot more determined than you give them credit for when they don't have other options.

Were Solo and Private Groups to be removed leaving Open as the only play option, that would represent a significant change to the design of the game - published over three years ago as part of a Kickstarter pitch to fund the development of the game - we'll never know if the game would have met the target without Solo and Private Groups (and the ability to switch modes on a session-by-session basis). While the number of KS backers is small in relation to the number of units sold, I expect that another "Offlinegate" is pretty high up on Frontier's list of things to avoid. That just adds one more reason why I believe that none of the three game modes are going anywhere.

It's less about an opinion as to what players would do - more about how players would react to a developer who would remove core features - it would also probably be seen as pandering to the PvP agenda.

Maybe some of the players would remain in Open - maybe they would indeed get better at playing in a manner that they had previously chosen not to - for how long, who knows.

There are plenty of other options - Elite: Dangerous will not be the only space game out there. As mentioned previously, there is always the option not to play.

This thought exercise is all very interesting, however with the recent confirmation that Private Groups are in development for the XBox One version of the game, I don't have any particular worries regarding the longevity of player choice as to which mode they play the game in.

 

[Roybe]

There is nothing we do, that an NPC doesn't also do. There have even been threads recently saying that NPC pirates are too aggressive.

We just do it a lot better and people get bent out of shape because they are upset because another human did it to them.

I'm not saying attacking a lone T6 with a wing on Anacondas is fair. But it could happen with NPC's and you would have just as much chance of ending up in the re-buy screen.

Sadly it doesn't happen as much because NPC's are set at a really easy level, so that people can beat them and not get bent out of shape over that.

I would have no fear about running a shieldless T9 anywhere in solo, I wouldn't in some areas in Open.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Yeah...but the difference is that you had a choice to leave them alone. NPC's are not expected to make a choice. Although it is accepted/expected that you do it better...the idea that you actually did it, is enough for most PvE players to walk away.