Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

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Last I saw, for most games it tends to follow the 90-9-1 rule. 90% of the players don't read the forums, 9% read them but don't (or only very, very rarely) post, and 1% actually participate. Specific exceptions can exist, though I can't tell if ED would be one of those.

I might be able to help a little, I have quoted the only known numbers we had before and I did get a reply from Brett C, he disagrees with me :) but quotes some numbers from the ED forum.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90583&page=599

Lol, I just spent 20 minutes going through previous posts trying to find that, and after page 7 for me the pages are broken , typed "Elite Dangerous Brett C 90 9 1" into google and bingo, first result (I remembered the 90/9/1 measure you mentioned from his answer), if only some would do that before buying the game, maybe "would I like Elite Dangerous?" could possibly help.

And that you tubey thing is pretty cool too, loads of ED stuff on there.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Mode switching as a perceived problem has been discussed. Any feature of the game will be used by players with the intent of maximising some aspect of their play, whether it be mode switching to engage in unopposed (by players, that is) farming or possibly zapping Sidewinders in a vastly OP ship (just because they can). Does this mean that mode switching needs to be restricted? Not in my opinion - it would detract from the "play the game how you want to" encouragement from Frontier and also it would seem to contradict DBOBE's recent comments regarding the fact that there is, in his opinion, no "right" way to play the game.

Regarding players choosing not to play in Open - there is, as we have been told again recently, no "right" way to play the game - if players in Open feel that it is lacking other players there's not a whole lot that can reasonably be done about it - players are permitted the freedom to choose which game mode to play in on a session by session basis.

A mode switching timer would probably, in my opinion, reduce the Open population further - some players would probably not want to be bothered with an arbitrary restriction on their freedom of choice as to which game mode to play in so would probably tend to stick to one rather - if a player has any reason not to play in Open then it may well be Open that suffers from such a restriction. Also, I would not expect that an arbitrary mode switching delay would deter the Min/Max player in the slightest - they will probably farm in their chosen mode and schedule their Open play to coincide with others of their ilk.

Changing the contribution rates of each mode to CGs (or more recently Powerplay) has been mentioned before - the last clear statement on the topic was from Michael - Frontier have no plans to favour one game mode over the others.

Forget for a minute what FDEV may or may have not said. They also said a great many things in the DDF.

How would you cater, in game (and not just with words), for the concern of those players that perceive that Powerplay is broken because of the opportunistic option to switch modes avoiding blockades at will etc?

Real or not, dont you think that this concern / perception has a serious potential to erode trust overall in the game mechanics and for Powerplay in particular?
 
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How would you cater, in game (and not just with words), for the concern of those players that perceive that Powerplay is broken because of the opportunistic option to switch modes avoiding blockades at will etc?

Real or not, dont you think that this concern / perception has a serious potential to erode trust overall in the game mechanics for Powerplay in particular?


Now there is something I really disagree with. Why would you "cater" to something without proving it true first?
 
I agree.

Personally, i would love a 4th option "open only" and a 2nd galaxy. Imagine the fights between powers in power play? You would have REAL reason to actually BOTHER fighting other factions.

You could fight them in their own RES, fight them in their systems - actually fight them in combat zones. Instead of just grinding NPC's and never seeing hardly anyone because they are all too busy grinding the most effective method, in solo. Seriously, it's a ghost town out there because nobody wants to give up their precious rates - uncontested, infinite supply of merit grinding in exploited systems is a lot faster than contested zones currently.

What I don't really get is why you think this extra mode / option will be full of players? Half the time pro Open players come on here complaining that there's no-one in Open because they are all 'hiding' in Solo, so why would an Open only option suddenly be chock full of players?

I'd have thought that all the hard core Open players are already in Open, and those numbers are bolstered by occasional Open players. Presumably an Open only option would lose the occasional players making it even more of a ghost town than you say that Open already is.
 
I'd have thought that all the hard core Open players are already in Open, and those numbers are bolstered by occasional Open players. Presumably an Open only option would lose the occasional players making it even more of a ghost town than you say that Open already is.

Give them guilds and it will fill up in no time! :D

<runs away and hides>
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Now there is something I really disagree with. Why would you "cater" to something without proving it true first?

Agreed, but then this thread has no reason to exist at all in the first place.

The only party who has actual figures about Solo vs Open activity to base decisions or recommendations on is FDEV. Everything else is anecdotal evidence at best.

My proposal a few pages back is based on assumptions, like the rest of the discussion in these 400+ pages.

My assumption is that, eventhough I agree that Open vs Solo risk difference is in the eye of the beholder, the perception (real or not) that it may be skewed towards Open may warrant dev action with specific mechanics to answer the perceived imbalance simply to avoid a potential trust deficit in the overall system.

- Also, I agree with you on the principle that comparative risk between solo and open is only in the eye of the beholder. But please notice the proposal is meant to address preemptively perceptions that may lead to a break of trust with the system by a sector of the community, irrespective of if these perceptions are correct or not. Only FDEV has the actual figures to back up any decision on the matter. The question is which is the larger and more influential group with regards to influencing potential new and prospective buyers/players? The one that claims that opportunistic Solo/Private is ruining Powerplay or the one of actual Solo players playing Powerplay that would feel upset by this proposal?
 
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Only if you can prove that you've only ever posted in the Open vs Groups vs Solo Thread.

The other threads are just too weak and not a real challenge. I can answer a post in them in less than 10 seconds flat, with my eyes closed.

Forum PvP FTW.

Lol, I have seen a fair few here that are able to deal with even the "real challenges" equally well, just because you can don't assume is easy for everyone :), now I am not pointing any fingers, but after 16k posts here and many, many, many, many before, I believe that some people might be using external tools.

I will take a chance on sharing this "potential cheat", I think they use ... notepad, now bear with me, I think they "might" be abusing the "copy and paste" option specific to notepad, to make it their "easy mode" of posting, using the same text again and again to Errrrr, counter the same repetitive arguments for change.

Now this is not fair on all the people that take the time to individually reply by typing, FD need to fix this bug now.

I demand FD fix notepad so you can only "copy & paste" once a day, if I have to type all the time why should they have it easy? and for the record, I have never used control C & V notepad cheat mode in FD, I type in "word" I am hardcore, you should all use word.

Sorry what ? you can ctrl c&v in word, I don't believe it, Ahh OK you have proof, well your still wrong because I don't, so you shouldn't, you are stopping me "playing it my way" ;). "Enter something random about breaking immersion."
 
Agreed, but then this thread has no reason to exist at all in the first place.

The only party who has actual figures about Solo vs Open activity to base decisions or recommendations on is FDEV. Everything else is anecdotal evidence at best.

My proposal a few pages back is based on assumptions, like the rest of the discussion in these 400+ pages.

My assumption is that, eventhough I agree that Open vs Solo risk difference is in the eye of the beholder, the perception (real or not) that it may be skewed towards Open may warrant dev action with specific mechanics to answer the perceived imbalance simply to avoid a potential trust deficit in the overall system.

too bad PP is too bad to take it seriously though...
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Honestly, Viajero, I was with you with this debate on Open vs. needing some small modifications to balance the desire of a player to min/max in private with remaining in Open.

As Sara continues to fix the AI, this difference will only be recognized by the players on the extreme right hand side of the curve...NPC interaction will slow down the accrual of benefits so that the choice is ubiquitous to the vast majority of the playerbase.

I really hope so. This could be a really great way to tackle it but as much as I appreciate SJI´s work, the NPC´s still have a really long way to go before organizing themselves in blockading parties or dedicated attack squadrons aimed directly to prevent Powerplay human opposition progress with the same coordination and skill of other human players. Interdiction effectiveness and pursuit after interdiction in particular are in sore need of beefing up.

The day players start complaining "en masse" that the AI is too tough, then we can talk again :p .
 
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What I don't really get is why you think this extra mode / option will be full of players? Half the time pro Open players come on here complaining that there's no-one in Open because they are all 'hiding' in Solo, so why would an Open only option suddenly be chock full of players?

I'd have thought that all the hard core Open players are already in Open, and those numbers are bolstered by occasional Open players. Presumably an Open only option would lose the occasional players making it even more of a ghost town than you say that Open already is.

And one more thing. Such mode would be a real paradise for those, who like to undermine in Solo. Simply because with a small "fix" on your router or firewall, you can be in this Open Only and you will not see any other player and you will never be seen.

And another one more thing - what to do with those Xboxers ? Make an Open only PC galaxy and Open only XBox galaxy ? There are a lot of possibilities how to reinvent the wheel... :)
 
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I agree.

Personally, i would love a 4th option "open only" and a 2nd galaxy. Imagine the fights between powers in power play? You would have REAL reason to actually BOTHER fighting other factions.

You could fight them in their own RES, fight them in their systems - actually fight them in combat zones. Instead of just grinding NPC's and never seeing hardly anyone because they are all too busy grinding the most effective method, in solo. Seriously, it's a ghost town out there because nobody wants to give up their precious rates - uncontested, infinite supply of merit grinding in exploited systems is a lot faster than contested zones currently.

<snip>

I doubt you will ever get a second galaxy, FD are adding the Xbox players to the same background sim its for a good reason, I have no clue what it is but its their plan not mine. I can only assume playstation will also be the same, although I hope we get to see them.

Now an option in the menu for "open only mode" I am behind, it would need a BIG RED "I agree" button, clearly stating its a one way ticket. I also back a PVE option in the main menu too, and here is where we get shouted down, those ~ 90% of people that never read the forum, some of them might think solo is offline and never tried it, nor groups, they might move if they see PVE in the main screen.

The open people don't want to see even less players, not surprisingly the solo & groups people are really not bothered, funny that.
 
Agreed, but then this thread has no reason to exist at all in the first place.

The only party who has actual figures about Solo vs Open activity to base decisions or recommendations on is FDEV. Everything else is anecdotal evidence at best.

My proposal a few pages back is based on assumptions, like the rest of the discussion in these 400+ pages.

My assumption is that, eventhough I agree that Open vs Solo risk difference is in the eye of the beholder, the perception (real or not) that it may be skewed towards Open may warrant dev action with specific mechanics to answer the perceived imbalance simply to avoid a potential trust deficit in the overall system.

my worry is that by these specific mechanics whatever they may be, what is perceived may yet become real. How many times has a game had a PVP element and to cater to that element PVE suffers? People in open perceive an unfair advantage so they complain, it is fixed, yet now there does exist an unfair advantage due to fixing the perceived one.
 
Forget for a minute what FDEV may or may have not said. They also said a great many things in the DDF.

How would you cater, in game (and not just with words), for the concern of those players that perceive that Powerplay is broken because of the opportunistic option to switch modes avoiding blockades at will etc?

Real or not, dont you think that this concern / perception has a serious potential to erode trust overall in the game mechanics and for Powerplay in particular?

Even if, for the sake of argumentation, I were to assume that mode switching is breaking Power Play, that being able to do blockades is good for the game, I would still think it better to find other ways to solve or mitigate the issue without limiting either the other modes or mode switching itself.

In a game supposed to be in development and evolving for a long time, both through free patches and paid for expansions, I believe the loss of trust in what the developers say, if a promised feature is scrapped, is worse than any potential erosion of trust in the game systems that comes from keeping promises that aren't fully compatible with newer game systems.

It isn't similar to the DDF, BTW, first because for the most part those aren't precluded by the current state of the game — in other words, most of the features of the DDF could be incrementally implemented in patches without changing anything important about the game — and second because the DDF were just declarations of intent found inside a forum board, while the multiple modes and freely switching between them were features promised from the first day and used when advertising the Kickstart and, later, the game itself.

I'll admit to being somewhat biased, though, because Power Play doesn't interest me in the least. If I ever engage in it, it will be merely to farm a reward and leave; I'm not the kind of person that can ever find enjoyment in factional play such as what Frontier is attempting with Power Play. And also because I see being able to choose when I engage with other players, and being able to avoid such engagement through non-gameplay means (e.g., by changing to solo mode) without being punished for it, as essential to my enjoyment; unwanted PvP is the surest way to completely ruin my fun.
 
numbers say otherwise though..640k copies aprox....near 48k forum members

Mmmm 7.5%, less than 1 in 10 have a forum account, many have a very low post count (1 or 2) and are likely inactive, take a look at the link in my post above, Brett C gives some ratios for this forum.
 
Agreed, but then this thread has no reason to exist at all in the first place.

The only party who has actual figures about Solo vs Open activity to base decisions or recommendations on is FDEV. Everything else is anecdotal evidence at best.

My proposal a few pages back is based on assumptions, like the rest of the discussion in these 400+ pages.

My assumption is that, eventhough I agree that Open vs Solo risk difference is in the eye of the beholder, the perception (real or not) that it may be skewed towards Open may warrant dev action with specific mechanics simply to avoid a potential trust deficit in the overall system.

This thread has exactly zero genuine reasons to exist.

The fact it does, shows that some people have no trust (or faith) in FDev at all. That may or may not be FDevs own fault (I.E. Offline scandal).
Which, as people do not trust them now after FDev have said it is fine - then what good is any evidence either way?
Because if people won't trust FDev now when they say it is all balanced, why should they trust any information FDev releases to back up that claim and not just accuse them of making it up?

If you remove the people with trust issues, you would still have the thread. As some people just like to troll and upset others.
And the best way to upset any group of online gamers is to petition game developers to start removing features from the game, "for the good of the game".
It is pure and clearly upsets people, that is why some folks do it. Also, some find it fun to prod until others start getting banned for becoming overly upset at such clear trolling posts.

So removing the trust issues and the trolls, you'd still have the thread because of people being greedy and wanting some kind of advantage over others. If people can go to a quiet place and fully focus and concentrate on what they are doing, then they will petition the game developers to change things so there is no quiet places for people to use. Those who cannot stand overly busy areas now cannot concentrate due to all the hustle and bustle - gives the person who can concentrate the advantage they were seeking. Same for those who keep saying all NPCs should be uber death machines, this only helps those who are established and prevents new people from settling in as they get frustrated that every time they undock they get destroyed in their small ships while the Python and Anaconda pilots sit laughing knowing very few people will keep trying - so they have this big chasm of time+skill+resources stopping the general population catching up to them in their "end game" ships.

So we've cut out those with no trust, the trolls and now the greedy. Role-players all ready have said the game is three miles wide and one inch deep, so they need open mode to bring more people (aka "content") to keep them busy and amuse them.
Then we have those who do not understand how the game works with the BGS, instances, servers and networking etc, etc. They talk as if the game runs on DBOBEs personal work computer, as if any change is a quick reboot of his machine and job done. They turn up with their "fixes" and "suggestions" (same stuff from the other groups, but different reasons without any malice intended) and they get upset when folks try to explain the tech side.
The competitive crowd are getting CQC, so they have calmed down in the thread but they had their own reasons to mess with modes until E3.

And I'm sure there are more demographics I've not covered. But wither way, this thread was always going to be here. Might have had another name (Star Trek Online call theirs "The DOOOOOM Thread") but it would be here. All games have them ;)

As I've stated, even if FDev stepped in no one would listen and the thread would carry on regardless.

[video=youtube;p3XbCMK9pAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3XbCMK9pAE[/video]

[video=youtube;SMig8i8jeNg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMig8i8jeNg[/video]
 
Forget for a minute what FDEV may or may have not said. They also said a great many things in the DDF.

How would you cater, in game (and not just with words), for the concern of those players that perceive that Powerplay is broken because of the opportunistic option to switch modes avoiding blockades at will etc?

Real or not, dont you think that this concern / perception has a serious potential to erode trust overall in the game mechanics and for Powerplay in particular?

Are you suggesting that FD change the game because some people do not understand how PP works? because of their perception, even if its "Real or not"

FD never said players would be able to blockade systems, DBOBE spoke about it at EGX2014 at around 20 mins in, he specifically does not want player blockades, he is referring to guilds but same thing here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzizYUEF9c;t=19m41s
 
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