Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Dave1235]

Even if they did, a simple netsh is all it takes to nuke people out of your instances

Lol, you like to make me use google (netsh).

I decided to take a look in open tonight after running a route for a bit in solo.

I was only in open for an hour or so (type6) I got interdicted by 1 npc, I ran away and was fine, and 1 CMDR near Diso, I ran away, used 1 cell and was gone too, not too scary.

Sorry to all the PVP crew that are so desperate to taste my new blood, only one of you even got close lol, maybe next week, maybe not, who decided to give sheep the vote, lol.

It was fun for an hour, I might do it again soon, I might not... well unless the people who want to split the groups get their way (OK don't giggle its rude), if I have to make a choice I would pick group / solo before open, if I was forced into group / solo, I would NOT ever start a new CMDR for open!

 

[Meritz]

Even if they did, a simple netsh is all it takes to nuke people out of your instances

The "brilliance" of trying to build a multiplayer game on P2P platform never ceases to amaze me.

I think FD did not expect the game to be so popular, or profitable. Otherwise they'd invest in a few servers.

 

[Nonya]

Where Frontier went wrong with PowerPlay

They should have made PowerPlay an "open only" campaign.
Players in Private Groups or Solo would not see anything related to PP, no menus, no special PP GUIs, nothing at all - it would look just like 1.2 with CGs and such.
The only thing they would "see" is when a system flips from Independent to one of the 3 main factions or vice-versa.

Eventually it will fall apart or go stagnant or otherwise "break" with 3 different modes of play instead of a single open mode.

 

[noldunar]

Again? Seriously?

 

[Ian Phillips]

will be merging this.....

 

[Jockey79]

They should have made PowerPlay an "open only" campaign.
Players in Private Groups or Solo would not see anything related to PP, no menus, no special PP GUIs, nothing at all - it would look just like 1.2 with CGs and such.
The only thing they would "see" is when a system flips from Independent to one of the 3 main factions or vice-versa.

Eventually it will fall apart or go stagnant or otherwise "break" with 3 different modes of play instead of a single open mode.

Well, as you've caused a merge to happen - here is a gift from me.


From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .



More Recent Dev comments;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Numi
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Robert Maynard
Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by mosh_er
Hi Micheal

I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?

None are planned at the moment.

Michael

Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.

Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?

It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.

Originally Posted by Adept
For fun

That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.

Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.

The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.


Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?


Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.

We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.

And yes, knowledge is a gift - don't waste my gift to you

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Most of the roles in the game are easy soooo, yeah, you're done.

Maybe for you, thats good for you (or not?) but difficult depens on many factors and one of them is who is playing.

You used Dark Souls as an example, a game where I have a much easier time then in Elite because the Gameplay suits my skillset better. You also have big gaps in difficult in DS depending on the Class - Someone who plays a heavy knight will have it in genral much harder then someone who plays a Pyromancer.
I prefer playing the heavy knight and you know what? I don't care that a Pyromancer has it easier. Because it does not matter if other people have it easier or harder then me, why should that bother me?

Really don't get how that can bother anyone, just have Fun and be happy. If you don't have fun playing the Game, me having a harder Time will not change that.

 

[Jockey79]

...

Really don't get how that can bother anyone, just have Fun and be happy. If you don't have fun playing the Game, me having a harder Time will not change that.

I said it in the last mega, and I'll say it again here;

Some of the pew pews are unhappy that the rest of us can be happy without them.
Most of the arguments raised over the modes boil back to "I want to shoot you" ~ that is why I put the word interaction in quotes when I address any points, we get "interaction" in Mobius, we don't get pew pew.
So if all they wanted was "interaction", they'd join Mobius - that is how I know who wants mindless pew pew and who doesn't

 

[NeilF]

They should have made PowerPlay an "open only" campaign.
Players in Private Groups or Solo would not see anything related to PP, no menus, no special PP GUIs, nothing at all - it would look just like 1.2 with CGs and such.
The only thing they would "see" is when a system flips from Independent to one of the 3 main factions or vice-versa.

Eventually it will fall apart or go stagnant or otherwise "break" with 3 different modes of play instead of a single open mode.

IMHO Powerplay falls short in a number of ways as regards the community online play:-
1) It does not actively pit players against each other (or make them work togethor). ie: It does not give missions to one Power's CMDRs to go and protect something, and missions to another Power's CMDRs to go an attack something. Or for one Power's CMDRs to try and sneak into a RES area (using Silent/Cold running <-- remember that feature), while the defending Power's CMDRs are given missions to locate and destroy them. Instead we have no new missions for Powerplay, and everything has been left a generic mix of the existing "grind mechanics" so Solo and Open can work in tandem.
2) Worst of all, Powerplay (& indeed most of the game) rewards players for ducking out of OPEN and instead playing in SOLO (or GROUP). By making it little more than a grind mechanic, many players will undoubtly simply choose the most efficient (safest) method to grind their "points", which is almost certainly SOLO. See the video(s) in my link below for a somewhat comical example of this.

Now, I'm in no way suggesting Powerplay should have been for OPEN only, but in trying to offer a generic approach based on rewarding grind instead of player experience, it fails to offer anything new to OPEN, and infact actually damages it by rewarding players for instead playing (grinding) in SOLO.

IMHO, Powerplay should have been less about grinding for points (for a board game), and more about introducing far more variation and depth of missions and activities for both PvE and PvP. Imagine a set of orchestrated battles which CMDRs could takeup via the Bulletin Boards (announced on Galnet) which would pit competing CMDRs against each other (or in SOLO agsint AI):-
- Straight out battles: Turn up at location X for a battle lasting a couple of hours. Results based on most enemy destroyed.
- An attack/defense: One Power is defending convoys passing by for a couple of hours while another Power is attacking them. Results based on number of convoy ships destroyed.

etc... etc... And then the results of these meetings/conflicts are used to decide some outcome. And most importantly, the results are not simply based on the fact one Power has twice the number of players (grinding), but as much as possible which Power actually played better. ie: Even in Solo, if one Power's CMDRs were more effectinve (per head), then they get merit for that. ie: A Power is not simply rewarded (wins) for having twice the number of players, or players who simply have more hours to grind.

Anyway, if you want to read more, and see my example video on Powerplay failing to promote OPEN - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=153492 (Specifically the section on "OPEN Mode Issues")

 

[Daffan]

I said it in the last mega, and I'll say it again here;

Some of the pew pews are unhappy that the rest of us can be happy without them.
Most of the arguments raised over the modes boil back to "I want to shoot you" ~ that is why I put the word interaction in quotes when I address any points, we get "interaction" in Mobius, we don't get pew pew.
So if all they wanted was "interaction", they'd join Mobius - that is how I know who wants mindless pew pew and who doesn't

sorry kiling NPC's over and over is not my cup of tea

i can do that with 1 hand on the joystick. good interaction really

 

[fademist]

IMHO Powerplay falls short in a number of ways as regards the community online play:-
1) It does not actively pit players against each other (or make them work togethor). ie: It does not give missions to one Power's CMDRs to go and protect something, and missions to another Power's CMDRs to go an attack something. Or for one Power's CMDRs to try and sneak into a RES area (using Silent/Cold running <-- remember that feature), while the defending Power's CMDRs are given missions to locate and destroy them. Instead we have no new missions for Powerplay, and everything has been left a generic mix of the existing "grind mechanics" so Solo and Open can work in tandem.
2) Worst of all, Powerplay (& indeed most of the game) rewards players for ducking out of OPEN and instead playing in SOLO (or GROUP). By making it little more than a grind mechanic, many players will undoubtly simply choose the most efficient (safest) method to grind their "points", which is almost certainly SOLO. See the video(s) in my link below for a somewhat comical example of this.

Players will CHOOSE the mode they like to do things...only thing we can agree is the grind fest ...

- - - Updated - - -

sorry kiling NPC's over and over is not my cup of tea

i can do that with 1 hand on the joystick. good interaction really

thats why u play at open....now if u cant find targets isnt anyones fault

 

[NeilF]

Players will CHOOSE the mode they like to do things...only thing we can agree is the grind fest ...

Yes and no (IMHO)...

Watch the video in the post I linked to ... Direct link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uiD2NzxggM&t=2m30s

I wanted to do a Military Strike in OPEN in the hope it would be more challenging to play against other players, and more fun to play with other players, BUT:-
1) From my understanding Powerplay does not promote/create PvP sitations. ie: Military Strikes are PvE only? (Can someone confirm? Be nice if I were wrong!)
2) As multiple CMDRs are all there simply farming (grinding) for points, the zone is completely unchallenging.
3) Worse still, as multiple CMDRs are all fighting over the same points (kills) you frustratingly will not get many (points), hence the impoteus to simply rejoin in SOLO. I did, and instantly the zone become a touch more challenging (fun) and I started earning far more points.

^^ All of the issues will result in CMDRs simply ducking into SOLO (or GROUP). They did for me...



Ultimately as the impoteus in Powerplay is the grind for points, not quality/interest/challenge/reward of gameplay experience, I'd suggest players will tend to gravitate to what gives them the best reward (in points) for time spent. This at the moment will almost always be SOLO/GROUP (IMHO). I'm not suggesting this will make all CMDRs leave OPEN, but I think it will be a noticable factor for many.

 

[Hurricane Moon]

hello gentlemen

im a old school 80`s gamer...played the original on schools bbc micro...and later the speccy.so never grew up with online gaming so to speak.

when this wonderfull game came out i was instantly hooked,bought a hotas....led headyracking...roccat power grids...other tabs with shipyard and trade tools....basiccly made a cockpit much to my wifes hatred lol.

a couple of months ago i was getting bored and thought i would finally go "online"-(i should add im not a online gamer normally-in fear of my world /immersion being broke)
met a great group of people and actually had a few good nights together and made so much money that i dont have to do anything in the game if dont have to.

i even joined a corp called hagro....then started to look into joining the code.

then i personally got fed up.

just wanted to play alone,be in my own bubble without someone asking me to go here, go there......"hey meet us in leesti" ect........it started to become not relaxing and like a job.

now im a family man mid 30`s who works full time(with the public)-so you can imagine i have now gone back to playing solo or in my own private group wich consists of just me.


each to there own-but i play video games to escape life...to be in another world....to play god........having another human in my earpiece just breaks that illusion-its like christ.heres another intellegent player....he could wipe me out and ruin my fantasy........no thanks lol.
the only entity i need to communicate with is ASTRA.

I think personally that a lot of us solo gamers play solo for just these reasons,i suppose its all down to the individual,im not the most social person outside of video games-in game i am a loner and a pirate.........just like real life ha ha.
anyway peace to you all fellow commanders

 

[FuzzySpider]

They should have made PowerPlay an "open only" campaign.
Players in Private Groups or Solo would not see anything related to PP, no menus, no special PP GUIs, nothing at all - it would look just like 1.2 with CGs and such.
The only thing they would "see" is when a system flips from Independent to one of the 3 main factions or vice-versa.

Eventually it will fall apart or go stagnant or otherwise "break" with 3 different modes of play instead of a single open mode.

Fortunately Fronter aren't economically suicidal. If they start producing open-only content they're basically outright saying single player experiences are no longer supported, and when that happens the game really will dry up.

People won't move to Open, even players like me who play in both open and solo would simply walk away from the game.

 

[fademist]

Fortunately Fronter aren't economically suicidal. If they start producing open-only content they're basically outright saying single player experiences are no longer supported, and when that happens the game really will dry up.

People won't move to Open, even players like me who play in both open and solo would simply walk away from the game.

some people wont get it fuzzy w/e we tell them or even show them

 

[Roland2]

I

Spoiler

MHO Powerplay falls short in a number of ways as regards the community online play:-
1) It does not actively pit players against each other (or make them work togethor). ie: It does not give missions to one Power's CMDRs to go and protect something, and missions to another Power's CMDRs to go an attack something. Or for one Power's CMDRs to try and sneak into a RES area (using Silent/Cold running <-- remember that feature), while the defending Power's CMDRs are given missions to locate and destroy them. Instead we have no new missions for Powerplay, and everything has been left a generic mix of the existing "grind mechanics" so Solo and Open can work in tandem.
2) Worst of all, Powerplay (& indeed most of the game) rewards players for ducking out of OPEN and instead playing in SOLO (or GROUP). By making it little more than a grind mechanic, many players will undoubtly simply choose the most efficient (safest) method to grind their "points", which is almost certainly SOLO. See the video(s) in my link below for a somewhat comical example of this.

Now, I'm in no way suggesting Powerplay should have been for OPEN only, but in trying to offer a generic approach based on rewarding grind instead of player experience, it fails to offer anything new to OPEN, and infact actually damages it by rewarding players for instead playing (grinding) in SOLO.

IMHO, Powerplay should have been less about grinding for points (for a board game), and more about introducing far more variation and depth of missions and activities for both PvE and PvP. Imagine a set of orchestrated battles which CMDRs could takeup via the Bulletin Boards (announced on Galnet) which would pit competing CMDRs against each other (or in SOLO agsint AI):-
- Straight out battles: Turn up at location X for a battle lasting a couple of hours. Results based on most enemy destroyed.
- An attack/defense: One Power is defending convoys passing by for a couple of hours while another Power is attacking them. Results based on number of convoy ships destroyed.

etc... etc... And then the results of these meetings/conflicts are used to decide some outcome. And most importantly, the results are not simply based on the fact one Power has twice the number of players (grinding), but as much as possible which Power actually played better. ie: Even in Solo, if one Power's CMDRs were more effectinve (per head), then they get merit for that. ie: A Power is not simply rewarded (wins) for having twice the number of players, or players who simply have more hours to grind.

Anyway, if you want to read more, and see my example video on Powerplay failing to promote OPEN - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=153492 (Specifically the section on "OPEN Mode Issues")

As I understand it, Powerplay was never meant to "promote OPEN" or any other mode. It was made to give those who wanted a "guild" to fight for what they wanted, regardless of what mode they played in.

 

[NeilF]

Fortunately Fronter aren't economically suicidal. If they start producing open-only content they're basically outright saying single player experiences are no longer supported, and when that happens the game really will dry up.

People won't move to Open, even players like me who play in both open and solo would simply walk away from the game.

IMHO PP should have simply of created deeper missions/gameplay that improved both (SOLO and OPEN) modes. eg: My suggested convoy escort/protection missions would have been perfectly fitting for SOLO with NPCs involved, and I'd say quite interesting in OPEN with opposing CMDRs involved! Likewise with my example stealth based mission to sneak into areas with opposition forces trying to find/destroy you. Both could have been just as valid in SOLO and/or OPEN.

 

[NeilF]

As I understand it, Powerplay was never meant to "promote OPEN" or any other mode. It was made to give those who wanted a "guild" to fight for what they wanted, regardless of what mode they played in.

Fair point, but:-
1) It actually damages OPEN IMHO. They've simply promoted time grind mechanics so why spend one hour in OPEN for 10 points when an hour in SOLO will isntead get you 20? It won't of course diswade all players, but it will for some. And indeed why should SOLO players be more effective in PP?
2) Do you fight for a guild? Or do exactly the same mechanics as you did before, instead now collecting points instead of CR. Do you get to make any decisions/impact for your Power (Guild) when your points/actions are just a drop in an ocean of other people's time and grind. You made decide action X - but that won't happen because your "vote" is just 1 in thousands. You may help you doing task X, but because other people (another Power?) simpy have more time to grind, your efforts count for little/nothing.

Powerplay brings no new rewarding deeper gameplay to the game. Instead simple time and grind is the same ethic. And its arguable if it does reward you with any real effect/control over anything.

Anyway, not wishing to go off topic specifically about PP, I'd suggest any PP specific discussion is continued on mu post on the matter and not here? - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=153492

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I said it in the last mega, and I'll say it again here;

Some of the pew pews are unhappy that the rest of us can be happy without them.
Most of the arguments raised over the modes boil back to "I want to shoot you" ~ that is why I put the word interaction in quotes when I address any points, we get "interaction" in Mobius, we don't get pew pew.
So if all they wanted was "interaction", they'd join Mobius - that is how I know who wants mindless pew pew and who doesn't

Attacking and being attacked is a third of the interaction available to players atm. Without it you can only talk to players or wing up. Removing It basically de-fangs open. Fly around with, a million credit bounty, a no shield or weapon cargo ship, in a rival powers system, or kill steal in a res, and noone can make you regret it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Attacking and being attacked is a third of the interaction available to players atm. Without it you can only talk to players or wing up. Removing It basically de-fangs open. Fly around with, a million credit bounty, a no shield or weapon cargo ship, in a rival powers system, or kill steal in a res, and noone can make you regret it.

While "no one" can make you regret it in Solo - the game may in the form of NPC attacks. After SJA's latest improvements, NPCs will now make multiple sequential interdictions and trail you through multiple FSD jumps - even to the point of attacking in the NFZ (much to their digital chagrin when the local security vessels deal with them).