Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

Like i said, i know that games change, pretty hard, sometimes its 180° change and will drive some of the old customers away.
And as you can see, i`m not the only one complaining about p2p, so our only chance is to keep the theme up and show that there is a point behind our request. It will improve multiplayer expirience, solo players would not notice any changes.
I like this game, but there is not much to do in the late state (when you got enough money for your ships and rebuy) and we have to do something to make it better.
I dont like dropping games, specially the expensive ones (and ED was expensive, compared to anything that i paid for in the last 2 years - mostly because i stopped preordering and day 1 shopping and now i wait for sales and patches - so i get a working game with a nice price tag).

Go on then, name them. Name the games that did a sharp turn and drove off the original players and continued to be an active game.

As it didn't work so well for SWG and the NGE did it. (also the only game I know of that changed core aspects of the game.)

 

[Cody]

I reckon you're wasting your breath, Jockey! [redacted]

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Go on then, name them. Name the games that did a sharp turn and drove off the original players and continued to be an active game.

As it didn't work so well for SWG and the NGE did it. (also the only game I know of that changed core aspects of the game.)

mhh the only games that come to my mind were strategy games...
like Supreme Commander 2 or Command and Conquer 4 (even though i dont acknowledge its existance), those two tried to be completely different to their ancestors...well...and the players hated them.
Old player usually ignore them and new player just dont play them.
i think its even forbidden to call their names out loud...like you-know-who

 

[Robert Maynard]

mhh the only games that come to my mind were strategy games...
like Supreme Commander 2 or Command and Conquer 4 (even though i dont acknowledge its existance), those two tried to be completely different to their ancestors...well...and the players hated them.
Old player usually ignore them and new player just dont play them.

Those sound like sequels to games rather than the same game making an about turn in its direction. Please correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.

 

[Scudmungus]

Mi main bag be dat, one element that PP could have embraced - locking down/embargoing a system/station, be undermined by mode switching.

While I get an accept why the different modes be here, they do come at a price.

Fair price? Can't say - I enjoy Solo when watching TV and trading. I enjoy Open when playing PP and running with mi mons.

Wid regards to PP: Convoy? No need - go Solo. Escort? Go solo! Want to ship your Power's goodies to a target unobstructed? Farm enemy for merits in relative peace? Go solo.

Seeming to take the bite outta tings..

Putting it another way - why be sneaky, be sly, when you can avoid all player threats all together in Solo. Bitta clandestine righteousness be sometin I missing..

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Those sound like sequels to games rather than the same game making an about turn in its direction. Please correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.

thats correct, but strategy games usually dont change that much.
they are mostly based on the same system with maybe new story or new graphics.
(seriously...play one C&C and you know them all...well...except the forbidden last one)
even though they didnt change the style in-dev, they changed their style in a series.
and i think you can see a series of a game as one connected game, they should not change that much until a new series starts.

although...supreme commander (1) had quite a change with its first addon.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Mi main bag be dat, one element that PP could have embraced - locking down/embargoing a system/station, be undermined by mode switching.

While I get an accept why the different modes be here, they do come at a price.

Fair price? Can't say - I enjoy Solo when watching TV and trading. I enjoy Open when playing PP and running with mi mons.

As I mentioned recently, instance size limits, the effect of ping times on matchmaking and the fact that not all players play at the same time of day also render a permanent blockade on a station / system / etc. a practically futile exercise - especially as there will be other platforms sharing the same galaxy and affecting the same CGs and Powerplay that we will probably never be able to crossplay with.

 

[VigilVindex]

Those who enjoy PvP should really try to organise themselves into adjacent, opposing Powers and have at it....

Yeah organise into groups of 4. /fail

 

[Scudmungus]

As I mentioned recently, instance size limits, the effect of ping times on matchmaking and the fact that not all players play at the same time of day also render a permanent blockade on a station / system / etc. a practically futile exercise - especially as there will be other platforms sharing the same galaxy and affecting the same CGs and Powerplay that we will probably never be able to crossplay with.

Aye, but I tink you gonna agree: Some players blockading be more of an obstacle than none. A blockade not a wall of bodies - it be a group dedicated to hunting down dems who enter the system tru Nav Beacon --- or who get close to station.

Sure, ping and instancing make tings tought - but a chance be better than none.

And it don't have to be a permanent blockade for mons to be having fun - an hour or so be enough to entertain. Wid not even the option, we miss out on another source of player-driven fun.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Aye, but I tink you gonna agree: Some players blockading be more of an obstacle than none. A blockade not a wall of bodies - it be a group dedicated to hunting down dems who enter the system tru Nav Beacon --- or who get close to station.

And it don't have to be a permanent blockade for mons to be having fun - an hour or so be enough to entertain. Wid not even the option, we miss out on another source of player-driven fun.

.... and I'm sure that if there are players who like to take on the role of blockade runner then your blockade would be tested. For those players who don't want to, they can make their choices to enjoy their kind of fun rather than that which you are providing.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

Go on then, name them. Name the games that did a sharp turn and drove off the original players and continued to be an active game.

As it didn't work so well for SWG and the NGE did it. (also the only game I know of that changed core aspects of the game.)

World of Warcraft. Coming down from a grind-heavy, hardcore game where 95% of the people never saw the raid-content in classic because it was hard and time-consuming, it became mainstream-friendly. Yes, most of the hardcore gamers from the old days left the game, but its still active and makes profit.
They changed so much. Hardcore raids with 40 people changed to 10&25-man raids with 3 different modes, PvP (was a small factor in classic, just openPvP then) became a big part of the game with arenas, battlegrounds, special item sets and they even tryed to get it into e-sports (that failed, but at least they did it!). They also changed the tech behind the game without rewriting the engine completly. Introducing DX11 into a DX9 game, enable crossplay between servers that were isolated before blah.
Enough for me. I know FD is not Blizzard, but looking at one of the best MMOs on the planet is never a bad thing. Blizzard did it right, and even after i left the game (it became too simple and too casual-friendly for me) i still give them the credit for making an awesome game and keeping it up till today.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Aye, but I tink you gonna agree: Some players blockading be more of an obstacle than none. A blockade not a wall of bodies - it be a group dedicated to hunting down dems who enter the system tru Nav Beacon --- or who get close to station.

Sure, ping and instancing make tings tought - but a chance be better than none.

And it don't have to be a permanent blockade for mons to be having fun - an hour or so be enough to entertain. Wid not even the option, we miss out on another source of player-driven fun.

Are you typing with an accent? I can totaly hear it in my head.

 

[Seonid]

Aye, but I tink you gonna agree: Some players blockading be more of an obstacle than none.

There is a system near me that I visit for outfitting, it is declared as "owned" by a group and they tell you to leave or be destroyed. I see them very time I am there and I just leave them to their RP thing, it has no effect on anything I do at all, in any way. Yes you can blockade but only if both sides agree to it.

 

[Scudmungus]

.... and I'm sure that if there are players who like to take on the role of blockade runner then your blockade would tested. For those players who don't want to, they can make their choices to enjoy their kind of fun rather than that which you are providing.

Aye, but as I n I mention, this be in regards to PP and what it could support, with regards to additional avenues of entertainment. Blockade running for fun, sure - and blockading of course. As it stands, we not gonna see blockades being used in PP other than for fun, a choice of entertainment. Perhaps dat be how it should be? Perhaps. As it stands, it be very easy to move PP tings around. As it stands there's minimal resistance which seems like a missed opportunity.

Perhaps NPC blockades? Would be most welcome - across all modes of play. Someting to push back as we try n push forwards.

Or maybe di option of triggering encounters like said blockades. NPC populated, player triggered through Power missions.

- - - Updated - - -

There is a system near me that I visit for outfitting, it is declared as "owned" by a group and they tell you to leave or be destroyed. I see them very time I am there and I just leave them to their RP thing, it has no effect on anything I do at all, in any way. Yes you can blockade but only if both sides agree to it.

Aye, perhaps dat how is should be - both sides choosin.

So, on reflection - give mi more NPC reaction/resistance across all modes, withing de context of PP!

- - - Updated - - -

Are you typing with an accent? I can totaly hear it in my head.

Being all in fi yuh head mon

 

[VigilVindex]

The MMO side of ED is lacking basic elements that people who have played MMO's come to expect. Like a functional grouping/partying system. Like chat functions to let people communicate and organise effectively. I can't for the life of me understand why you would want to build galaxy so big and fill it with an economy yet leave out such fundamental things as player to player trading and guilds (merchant guilds in particular). I accept the goal of giving players the choice to play how they like, but when it creates such a schism in the underlying mechanics of the game I wonder if it worth it in the end. Might have been better to make ED a dedicated single player game. And then ED2 could be the proper MMO version, unrestricted from catering to two separate and conflicting play groups.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

World of Warcraft. Coming down from a grind-heavy, hardcore game where 95% of the people never saw the raid-content in classic because it was hard and time-consuming, it became mainstream-friendly. Yes, most of the hardcore gamers from the old days left the game, but its still active and makes profit.
They changed so much. Hardcore raids with 40 people changed to 10&25-man raids with 3 different modes, PvP (was a small factor in classic, just openPvP then) became a big part of the game with arenas, battlegrounds, special item sets and they even tryed to get it into e-sports (that failed, but at least they did it!). They also changed the tech behind the game without rewriting the engine completly. Introducing DX11 into a DX9 game, enable crossplay between servers that were isolated before blah.
Enough for me. I know FD is not Blizzard, but looking at one of the best MMOs on the planet is never a bad thing. Blizzard did it right, and even after i left the game (it became too simple and too casual-friendly for me) i still give them the credit for making an awesome game and keeping it up till today.

well...there are news every few week that say that WoW is gasping for breath.
more and more players leave it

 

[Robert Maynard]

Aye, but as I n I mention, this be in regards to PP and what it could support, with regards to additional avenues of entertainment. Blockade running for fun, sure - and blockading of course. As it stands, we not gonna see blockades being used in PP other than for fun, a choice of entertainment. Perhaps dat be how it should be? Perhaps. As it stands, it be very easy to move PP tings around. As it stands there's minimal resistance which seems like a missed opportunity.

Perhaps NPC blockades? Would be most welcome - across all modes of play. Someting to push back as we try n push forwards.

Or maybe di option of triggering encounters like said blockades. NPC populated, player triggered through Power missions.

Aye, perhaps dat how is should be - both sides choosin.

So, on reflection - give mi more NPC reaction/resistance across all modes, withing de context of PP!

Given that the three modes and mode switching have been part of the stated game design from the outset, it would seem (to me at least) that unavoidable player blockades are not part of Frontier's list "must have" player activities in that they can simply be circumvented by trying to force an instance switch or by changing game mode (or even by logging out of the game and coming back later).

With respect to NPCs backing up the actions of the Powers - I would like this very much - as you say, it would apply over all modes.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The MMO side of ED is lacking basic elements that people who have played MMO's come to expect. Like a functional grouping/partying system. Like chat functions to let people communicate and organise effectively. I can't for the life of me understand why you would want to build galaxy so big and fill it with an economy yet leave out such fundamental things as player to player trading and guilds (merchant guilds in particular). I accept the goal of giving players the choice to play how they like, but when it creates such a schism in the underlying mechanics of the game I wonder if it worth it in the end. Might have been better to make ED a dedicated single player game. And then ED2 could be the proper MMO version, unrestricted from catering to two separate and conflicting play groups.

There's already a sizeable thread on the topic: Guilds in Elite Dangerous - discussion on Guilds would be better continued there, please.

 

[Jockey79]

World of Warcraft. Coming down from a grind-heavy, hardcore game where 95% of the people never saw the raid-content in classic because it was hard and time-consuming, it became mainstream-friendly. Yes, most of the hardcore gamers from the old days left the game, but its still active and makes profit.
They changed so much. Hardcore raids with 40 people changed to 10&25-man raids with 3 different modes, PvP (was a small factor in classic, just openPvP then) became a big part of the game with arenas, battlegrounds, special item sets and they even tryed to get it into e-sports (that failed, but at least they did it!). They also changed the tech behind the game without rewriting the engine completly. Introducing DX11 into a DX9 game, enable crossplay between servers that were isolated before blah.
Enough for me. I know FD is not Blizzard, but looking at one of the best MMOs on the planet is never a bad thing. Blizzard did it right, and even after i left the game (it became too simple and too casual-friendly for me) i still give them the credit for making an awesome game and keeping it up till today.

What a load of tosh.

Tweaking how fast people level up is not changing the core game. It is still go kill X and come back, go kill another X and come back.
They also have not removed PvE or PvP from the game, and have not touched the networking model at all.

WOW today, is still WOW from 10 years ago, with more content and leveling tweaks to get you to 100 faster.

- - - Updated - - -

mhh the only games that come to my mind were strategy games...
like Supreme Commander 2 or Command and Conquer 4 (even though i dont acknowledge its existance), those two tried to be completely different to their ancestors...well...and the players hated them.
Old player usually ignore them and new player just dont play them.
i think its even forbidden to call their names out loud...like you-know-who

Yes, the new versions changed what they were - no one turned C&C 3 into C&C 4... they made C&C 4 and left C&C 3 as it was.
And I'm happy for cryon to set up a kickstarter to fund his vision of an online space game, good luck to him. But ED, is ED - always has been and always will be.

 

[Jockey79]

The MMO side of ED is lacking basic elements that people who have played MMO's come to expect.

But is that a problem with how MMO is thrown at games now, or is that a problem with people's expectations of what an MMO is?

(I've covered the technical side of the term and ED fits it (just) in a technical sense, as do Robocraft, War Thunder and so on)