Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

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I'm drinking beer and eating scotch eggs... spent the last 6 hours pushing myself to upgrade to a Type 9.
(Beer + scotch eggs + music = maximum performance from me).

This thread gained 3 pages in my absence. But some how, it didn't gain anything new !!!
The world still turns, water is still wet, being a parent still costs me money.

My type 9 is white. (yay, something new in the thread !!).

Elite just cost me £5 to have a Type 9.... in white.
It looks good in white.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=460048634
 
It most certainly is not specious. It is a known fact of game design that only a maximum of 31 other people will ever be in an instance with you at any given time. It's also a known fact that that number is further affected by things such as ping time, packet loss and poor connections, possibly even further reducing it.

Your assertions are specious at best, to use your own terminology. Given lousy connections, time of play, or perhaps even deliberate manipulation, a player can(and this scenario already most likely currently occurs in game) effectively render themselves untouchable/ungroupable in open, thus rendering in impossible for anyone to "interact" with them. Thus, open players can, and most likely do, accomplish CG and PP goals without the possibility of ever encountering another player.

Then, there's the impending advent of console release. Those players will also be able to effect changes upon the background simulator without the possibility of ANY PC player ever being able to counter them in real time. How is this any different from the solo PC player? Short version: it isn't. Yet I'll bet you're perfectly fine with console players playing the same BGS as you.
First of all, your last point was a lie, I made no comment about console players whatsoever.

In regard to the first, your removal of any context from my quote is disingenuous. The point was specious because it was used to suggest that players could not be thwarted in their activities because I could not be relied upon to be instanced with them. You will agree however that even though I may not be in a position to be instanced with a player doesn't mean that another player won't. Nor does my point rely upon every player being instanced with another player at all times.
 
<snip> As above, I'm only here for the debate.

IMHO Its not really been a debate for a long time, more a place where (in general) people who didn't research the game before buying it get a little information about the game they bought, some accept it and some don't, the latter try to change the game to be what they want it do be (normally ignoring all developer quotes and shout loudly.

Now if 100 people or 1,000 (and I am not sure there are that many) want to change the game out of 46813 forum members https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php

Well I guess FD ain't doing too bad a job.
 
I'm drinking beer and eating scotch eggs... spent the last 6 hours pushing myself to upgrade to a Type 9.
(Beer + scotch eggs + music = maximum performance from me).

This thread gained 3 pages in my absence. But some how, it didn't gain anything new !!!
The world still turns, water is still wet, being a parent still costs me money.

My type 9 is white. (yay, something new in the thread !!).

Elite just cost me £5 to have a Type 9.... in white.
It looks good in white.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=460048634

And my posts have severely contributed to this ill-mannered, roundabout discussion.

I just wish people wouldn't be scared to play in Open for fear of some jerk griefing them. I think there's a place for solo, and a place for private groups.

As previously stated, more than once... Play in Open!

And drink Slurm!

Wait a second, you guys put Scotch in Eggs? That's way intense. Why do you UK'rs keep hiding stuff from us New Worlders?
 
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I've a ready explained the inherent competition in CG to fademist. See above.

To have any merit your point relies on all players in open travelling back and forth to a CG without ever encountering another player, which you must know in practice will not happen. You will likely encounter other players in open, which makes CG a more challenging endeavor.


I really have to ask.. did you read any of the pages in this thread and those before it before you started posting or did you just jump in? Because what you just wrote makes me believe you haven't read them.
 
I really have to ask.. did you read any of the pages in this thread and those before it before you started posting or did you just jump in? Because what you just wrote makes me believe you haven't read them.

I know you're not referring to me, but since I've made far too many posts here this afternoon, I personally have not read jack squat in this thread.
 
ok so i ask again as either your ignored it or i missed your answer last time.

What solution can you propose which does not completely destroy the game for players who bought it on the promise that some could play open, some could play solo and do their thing and that each party would have access to all the content, but at the same time they can group up together and play socially when ever they want as a group. This was the pitch I made to a number of people... these people were reticent to pay the high (for a pc game) price as it was, without removing thier sole reason to purchase

and if your answer is sucks to be them tough!.... then should FD pay for the refunds when players content is forcibly removed as the game no longer has the features advertised.?

There are heaps of competative MP games...... some are even set in space, but there are not many games offering modes like elite so it is slim pickings for the players like myself.
Keep switching, but make it so that PP merits can only be accrued in open. That way setting can still remain the same in solo and players will still experience the same universe with the same faction effects in particular systems. Similarly make CG contributions only effectual in open. This way people can go into open to play the collaborative side of the game, but if they get roughed up and want time to accrue money for insurance or buying a better ship in relative safety they can always fall back on solo.

- - - Updated - - -

I really have to ask.. did you read any of the pages in this thread and those before it before you started posting or did you just jump in? Because what you just wrote makes me believe you haven't read them.
What does it matter?
 
Keep switching, but make it so that PP merits can only be accrued in open. That way setting can still remain the same in solo and players will still experience the same universe with the same faction effects in particular systems. Similarly make CG contributions only effectual in open. This way people can go into open to play the collaborative side of the game, but if they get roughed up and want time to accrue money for insurance or buying a better ship in relative safety they can always fall back on solo.
another key sales point was EQUAL affect the universe at any mode
 
And my posts have severely contributed to this ill-mannered, roundabout discussion.

I just wish people wouldn't be scared to play in Open for fear of some jerk griefing them. I think there's a place for solo, and a place for private groups.

As previously stated, more than once... Play in Open!

And drink Slurm!

Wait a second, you guys put Scotch in Eggs? That's way intense. Why do you UK'rs keep hiding stuff from us New Worlders?

I'm so torn between screaming at you until I'm blue in the face over the "scared to play...." remark (which has been covered in this mega and twice in the last mega) and complimenting you over how level headed and reasonable your responses have been in this thread. You're not spouting personal opinions as "facts" and you're not trying to pass off your views as something that will end the world if we don't listen.
There are very few folks from the Open Advocates side I respect at the moment, you are one of them due to being completely -no frills- in your posting style.

That being said, you cannot ask and expect people to drink Slurm without telling them where to find it :p
 
What does it matter?


Maybe because if you actually read through the thread instead of jumping in willy nilly you might have known things like what you claim can never happen, has...

- - - Updated - - -

I'm so torn between screaming at you until I'm blue in the face over the "scared to play...." remark (which has been covered in this mega and twice in the last mega)


Well he did admit to not them :p

- - - Updated - - -

I know you're not referring to me, but since I've made far too many posts here this afternoon, I personally have not read jack squat in this thread.


*whistles innocently then Boosts away*
 
Maybe because if you actually read through the thread instead of jumping in willy nilly you might have known things like what you claim can never happen, has...

Awwww
You're so cute.

I had a puppy once that was this naive. It was a loyal and faithful friend. I miss that puppy.

(In plain English, assume any new name in the thread didn't read the opening post (or my post (number 3, page 1) with the "wall of information") or any other post in the thread. New names tend to jump in at the last page, fast scan whatever comments are on screen then comment - without any idea of prior information or arguments).

I am happy to see you think people read a thread before posting, it shows that humanity may have some saving graces left, even if they don't shine here ;)
 
Keep switching, but make it so that PP merits can only be accrued in open. That way setting can still remain the same in solo and players will still experience the same universe with the same faction effects in particular systems. Similarly make CG contributions only effectual in open. This way people can go into open to play the collaborative side of the game, but if they get roughed up and want time to accrue money for insurance or buying a better ship in relative safety they can always fall back on solo.

Or better still leave it as it is, as it seems to work just fine for the majority of the player base - a vast vast majority judging by the number of people complaining about it.
 
If people like you get their way it means I will no longer be able to play with my mates many of who bought on that promise. I take it you agree FD should be liable for refunds to those who want them after FD remove core functionality?

I hope so, I paid for my DLC a year ago. Start removing stuff I may decide I don't want it, not been delivered yet so I (and many others) can get a refund (~£40 a person) and still play.

Good job (IMHO) it will never happen, if something was there at KS, is still here now > 6 months after launch, the odds are it is here to stay.
 
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First of all, your last point was a lie, I made no comment about console players whatsoever.

In regard to the first, your removal of any context from my quote is disingenuous. The point was specious because it was used to suggest that players could not be thwarted in their activities because I could not be relied upon to be instanced with them. You will agree however that even though I may not be in a position to be instanced with a player doesn't mean that another player won't. Nor does my point rely upon every player being instanced with another player at all times.

Well, my first point stands as perfectly valid. There are people in this very thread fully capable of router shenanigans to ensure that they will in fact, NEVER encounter another player in open play. This is the nature of a P2P architecture.
Point valid. Player A, using router magic can effectively render the "open" universe as a "solo" universe. I suspect it was done to ensure certain past contest victories. Your refusal to acknowledge this fact does not render it less of a fact or invalidate its truth.

Second, my last point is not a lie. You most certainly did not state anything about consoles. If you'd read the post and understood it, you would see the two tiny words "I'll bet". This means I wager, or I presume. My statement is not a lie, it is a presumption. Very large difference. You also completely avoided the inferred question that statement posed, which I completely understand. After all, you most likely cannot be to care about console players, even if they DO affect the same CG's and PP goals that you purport to be invalidated by solo players being untouchable. It's a perfectly valid and relevant point, and one you haven't addressed at all.

I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your indignation against solo players when effectively, the very same thing occurs in the game now in open mode and is soon to come with console release.

That's twice you've called me a liar, when I'd presented(easily verifiable) facts. This only shows you to be unable to refute what I have presented as evidence, and are simply resorting to calling me a liar as an attempt to discredit the arguments put forth. Welcome to a coveted spot on my ignore list, O trollish one.
 
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A good point, we have rolled into specific systems with 2 full combat wings hoping to do something. Lo and behold, the instancing prevents any other CMDRs from showing up.

Actually, if I understood correctly the results of some tests Roybe did, showing up with 3 full combat wings will completely prevent you from seeing anyone else, and to even get there some manipulating of the wings system was needed. Given that, I would expect showing up with 2 full combat wings to already prevent any other random player (as in, that isn't actively attempting to get into your specific instance) from being seen.

How many instances are there? Is that like a subjective infinite thing? I really have no idea.
Each game client is capable of creating its own instance. So, yeah, for all intents and purposes there is no limit to the number of instances, you could have one for every player. The instances run on the player's computer, after all, and not on the servers.

So Frontier designed the game for players who feel like they don't want to interact with other players, to be able to affect other players without interacting with them? Really trying to understand, not a ______.
Rather, to force every player, regardless of whether they want to interact or not, to see in the ongoing universe simulation the effects of the actions of every other player, regardless of the mode those other players choose. They wanted a single galaxy that reflected the actions of the whole player base. It was their main justification for dropping offline mode, even.

Your assertions are specious at best, to use your own terminology. Given lousy connections, time of play, or perhaps even deliberate manipulation, a player can(and this scenario already most likely currently occurs in game) effectively render themselves untouchable/ungroupable in open, thus rendering in impossible for anyone to "interact" with them. Thus, open players can, and most likely do, accomplish CG and PP goals without the possibility of ever encountering another player.

There are scripts that can make you unmatchable, and undo that, with a single keypress. They can even be used while in game to cause a de-sync, dropping the player in a newly created instance and making him instantly vanish for any potential opponent; it's like combat logging, just without the hassle of having to log back into solo mode.

IMHO the only reason those aren't more widespread in the ED community is that, currently, they aren't really needed; just log out and drop into solo instead and you achieve effectively the same thing.

Affecting the universe in any mode is not reconcilable with equality, for the reasons I've already stated.

It was one of the basic concepts used to sell the game, though: that players would be able to always choose who they play with, would be free to change their choice at any time, and would have no penalty or disadvantage regardless of that choice.

And, in any case, peer to peer. Vulnerable to blocking. I could easily play in 'Open' but set my game to never see another player.
 
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