Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Roybe]

Interesting hyperbole and non-sense.

The game was built on the premise of Solo/ Group/ Open.
Go read the Kickstarter - or for even less work, Page 1 Post 3 in this very thread.

So don't you worry yourself about continued development of the game, the Solo and Group players who funded it to start with will make sure it does not go down without a fight

I'm sure there were just as many Open supporters funding the game at the start also...

 

[Dave1235]

If you don't care about future updates to the game and its continued development, then fine, go play Solo and don't concern yourself with anything here. However, I do care about the future of this game and its continued development, and I know that games with split or limited communities do not last very long, so if you want to blame me for actually giving a crap about this game's future then so be it.

Lets wait until the accounts are published, last years looked OK, lets see what ~ 400k sales added to the books look like. Also the Xbox and most of the DLC revenue will land in their next financial year so I don't expect FD will be holding out the begging bowl soon.

PS
Elite is not their only source of revenue, they have been around a while.

 

[Jockey79]

I'm sure there were just as many Open supporters funding the game at the start also...

Which would add to the point that we are all in this together.

Solo
Group
Open

We are all Elite, together.

So people need to stop trying to undermine the design and the rest of the community. Enjoy the game and play and let play.

 

[Mouse]

If you don't care about future updates to the game and its continued development, then fine, go play Solo and don't concern yourself with anything here. However, I do care about the future of this game and its continued development, and I know that games with split or limited communities do not last very long, so if you want to blame me for actually giving a crap about this game's future then so be it.

At which point did he say he didn't care about future updates to the game or it's continued development? PVP is NOT the only development with the game or it's future. It is part of the game and it's future.

 

[gMcizzLe]

We have a community with 3 modes, some are trying to tear it apart and make them 3 separate, but trying to force everyone into 1 mode is utter crap as well, your not "building a community". And you would be surprised at how many people pay money all the time for skins only they can see. As for your last comment.. WE are all part of the game's community. Some are just in other areas. Quite trying to force people into your mode of playing.

In WoW, which is an excellent reference for how to do an MMO correctly, each server actually did have its own community. Everybody knew everyone else, guilds and relationships were formed, and it made the game into much more than just running around and killing X number of this and that. This would be more difficult to achieve in ED obviously, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try at all.

Also, I wouldn't have as much of a problem if these modes were completely separate. But the fact that you can switch all your money/ships/etc into any mode at any time makes it flat out unfair, especially towards those that play solo in Open mode.

SO your solution for those not wanting to interact with other players is to force people to outlaying areas.. talk about abnormal. Playing SOLO is not solitary confinement that analogy is ludicrous. Some people are solitary some are not.. quite trying to force people to do things your way. ANd Refusing to go outside, is a known issue for some people, they are NOT abnormal.

Anyone can play in any area they wish, as long as it is within the bounds of where anyone else can also go. If you want to play in an outlying area, fine, if you want to play in a crowded area, fine, if you want a middle ground, that's fine too. See rural vs. urban vs. suburban living.

You have a strong opinion, that is great, but forcing that opinion on others is a no. You were not condescending, you were out right rude, and I don't' mean to me, I mean to those who may never post and as they read the threads they read your comments. Your comments were completely uncalled for. Calling someone a jerk is way, way minute vstelling people that they need psychiatric help. If my jerk comment woke you up then good that is what it was meant to do. I'm glad you enjoy PVP, quit trying to force others too as well.

Again, you equate needing psychiatric help with being a bad thing, which I do not. Someone who exhibits those symptoms probably does need psychiatric help, and they will be happy that someone is able to help them overcome their irrational fears. Calling someone a jerk is rude and unhelpful, letting someone know that they need help is the exact opposite in my opinion. I'm not forcing anyone to PvP and have them go at each other's throats all the time. You do know that it's possible for people to work together for mutual benefit too, right?

 

[Cody]

Anyone can play in any area they wish, as long as it is within the bounds of where anyone else can also go.

<scratches head>

 

[gMcizzLe]

At which point did he say he didn't care about future updates to the game or it's continued development? PVP is NOT the only development with the game or it's future. It is part of the game and it's future.

If everyone played Solo, the game would either eventually die off or the playerbase would become so small that it wouldn't be financially feasible to release any more updates. Now I may be wrong about this, but I have seen this situation all too often. The large majority of the most popular and long lasting games are multiplayer, not single player.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If everyone played Solo, the game would either eventually die off or the playerbase would become so small that it wouldn't be financially feasible to release any more updates.

What if FD have 500,000+ solo players who are really happy? and buying expansions?

 

[Faded Glory]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You want to play with just your friends? Go for it. You want to play with yourself? Go for it. I'm simply stating that one shouldn't have the ability to impact my game by killing me with a group of people; and then when they are all alone being able to hide someplace that I will never be able to find them.

And oh noes you don't want to play with me. I don't tend to suffer fools so it's likewise I'm sure.

I have to ask, do you know that people do that? Come in a wing and kill you, then just play in Solo when their mates aren't around so they are safe from you?

So you are blaming the modes, instead of the people. I probably wouldn't want to play with people like that either.

 

[gMcizzLe]

What if FD have 500,000+ solo players who are really happy? and buying expansions?

Yes, it's possible, but extremely unlikely. Again, the most successful games are multiplayer, so if ED wants to to sell lots of copies and have a large playerbase for a long time, they should focus on multiplayer.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yes, it's possible, but extremely unlikely. Again, the most successful games are multiplayer, so if ED wants to to sell lots of copies and have a large playerbase for a long time, they should focus on multiplayer.

That's just it though, those 500,000+ players are in multiplayer any time they choose to. Which can be 100% of the time, 50% of the time, or 0% of the time. So, if FD have 500,000+ active players, I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with that. The only people who would be unhappy, are those that need other people to shoot in order for the game to be any fun for them.

 

[Cody]

Something I saw upthread, can't recall who - something about 'all you lovers of Solo', I think it was. I'd be inclined to think that most of us are first and foremost lovers of choice. Strangely enough, DB/FD also seem to be lovers of choice. Anyway, has anyone spotted that pangolin yet?

 

[Mouse]

In WoW, which is an excellent reference for how to do an MMO correctly, each server actually did have its own community. Everybody knew everyone else, guilds and relationships were formed, and it made the game into much more than just running around and killing X number of this and that. This would be more difficult to achieve in ED obviously, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try at all.

Also, I wouldn't have as much of a problem if these modes were completely separate. But the fact that you can switch all your money/ships/etc into any mode at any time makes it flat out unfair, especially towards those that play solo in Open mode.

I'm in Mobius.. we have forums and community and everything, people who joined chose to do so it isn't mandatory forced or required. People flip between solo, group, and open, why do you feel it is fair to force people into open yet unfair for people to have a bloody choice.

Anyone can play in any area they wish, as long as it is within the bounds of where anyone else can also go. If you want to play in an outlying area, fine, if you want to play in a crowded area, fine, if you want a middle ground, that's fine too. See rural vs. urban vs. suburban living.

Within your bounds... you said before if they want to be alone go out into the outlaying area.. you want an all inclusive game where you can interact with everyone, not everyone wants that game, why should your wants trump theirs? You have your game to play in open with others, quite trying to force people into your world. You talk about urban vs rural vs suburban.. people don't like being forced there either.

Again, you equate needing psychiatric help with being a bad thing, which I do not. Someone who exhibits those symptoms probably does need psychiatric help, and they will be happy that someone is able to help them overcome their irrational fears. Calling someone a jerk is rude and unhelpful, letting someone know that they need help is the exact opposite in my opinion. I'm not forcing anyone to PvP and have them go at each other's throats all the time. You do know that it's possible for people to work together for mutual benefit too, right?

Wow.. my jaw is just dropping right now.. I cannot fathom how you can write and try to justify yourself. You walk down the street and call someone someone out for their action and call them a jerk they may flip you off, you walk up to someone and tell them they are wrong in how they live and need Psychiatric help they are going to be offended and upset. Having psychiatric help is not a bad thing, having some stranger online judging how you live your life, and your wrong and need professional help.. especially for teens who are already insecure and vulnerable,.. it is a bad thing. And again, who are you to say their fears are irrational.. your passing judgement and "advice" to people because they do not want to play a game YOUR way and are very obtrusive and rude.

IF you are forcing people into open, you are forcing them to a continual PVP zone, your forcing them to accept participating in PVP even if they have no desire to. You want people to work together for mutual benefit, yet your the one trying to edit what that benefit is. The ED gaming community is working for a mutual benefit with the game, your not, you are working towards YOUR benefit and dictating that everyone accept your view and benefit as what is right.

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If everyone played Solo, the game would either eventually die off or the playerbase would become so small that it wouldn't be financially feasible to release any more updates. Now I may be wrong about this, but I have seen this situation all too often. The large majority of the most popular and long lasting games are multiplayer, not single player.

he at no point ever advocated for everyone to play in solo. And if you had read the Many pages of the thread, you'd see that a LARGE part of the kickstarter funding was from people WANTING offline, they got Solo.

*Cough* Skyrim, Fallout. Mass Effect , Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines just a few of the single player games that long lasting and still popular as heck.. oh and they are all single player.. .Heck add in the original ELITE.

 

[ARGH]

the pve servers must be split. they cannot interfere with an open pvp world. it is apparent that there is not enough pve content to warrant the game mode functioning on its own, so they have it intertwined with the open world. still, though, even with the lack of pve content the servers must be split simply by the principle alone. the game is suffering an identity crisis right now. the nifty graphics and space ship simulation is driving sales. but once the crisis reaches critical levels they must make a decision. in today's gaming environment players will not accept an absolute single player game under the mmo genre.

open worlds are inherently player driven. this means pvp. but pvp does not always mean direct combat. it also means world shaping through economic, social, and political warfare. open world has a real risk vs. reward system. you cannot offer 100% risk avoidance for the entire world because it's unethical. with the current solo vs. open system they have, it offers solo players a way to cheat the system. it really is not about how you want to play, this is just marketing talk. it is the fact that you can avoid the mechanics of risk and still affect the open world game mode of others. the, "you cannot force me to play a certain way!", talk can go both ways. the pve solo crowd should step back and realize that they are asking for complete dominance in an open world mmo.

the community is being split in the worst way possible by having solo servers interfering with open servers because it pits playing philosophies against each other directly. when they properly split the servers they will also, by default, properly split the community. if they don't want to split the servers then they must change the game design by having one open world server but with safe zones for the pve players while branching towards unsafe zones for the pvp crowds, something like EVE online does.

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quite an odd forum. I cannot edit my post?...because the forum also refused to add the spaces and it prevented paragraphs...

 

[Asp Explorer]

if they don't want to split the servers then they must change the game design by having one open world server but with safe zones for the pve players while branching towards unsafe zones for the pvp crowds, something like EVE online does.

You've not played Elite yet, have you.

 

[why fi at all]

Is there a mistake being made here?
Perhaps people DO want to play the game and want to play it with people in open mode.
And they understand that there are PC pirates, and are willing to play in the same galaxy with PC pirates.

However in that galaxy there are also a noticeable number of joy killers that kill for the pleasure it gives them as they sit at their computer.
At their computer OUTSIDE of the ED universe.
Their interest is not in your cargo in your ship in this constructed universe, but in the feelings of hurt and frustration you will have as you sit at your computer OUTSIDE of the ED universe.
I have seen these actions referred to as "Metagaming".
In this context meaning "using the game to play a game outside of the game".

Metagaming could be a way for people to give each other good feelings.
Feelings of friendship and camaraderie.
The kind of feelings you get when working as part of a group with a focus on a specific goal and overcoming the difficulties of working towards that goal.
The feelings that you know each other and can depend on each other to each do their part, large or small.
In short good feelings that are all too rare outside of an artificially created gaming environment.

So my question of "Is there a mistake being made here?" concerns the often spoken FACT that people WANT to play solo.

My question is "Do people truly want to play solo?".

Or do they want to avoid the metagaming of open play mode that gives them ill feelings that are so easy to come by from other sources outside of the game?
The feelings of frustration that are so common OUTSIDE of the ED universe are being pressed upon them quite energetically by the people that are "playing the game their way" and bringing hurt feelings to other players as often as possible.

So do people want to play in open, perhaps want very much to play in open and they are reluctantly reserved to the notion that they play solo, or not at all?

 

[ARGH]

You've not played Elite yet, have you.

I have played about 14 hours. in that time I was having fun learning the basics of flight. I still do not know a lot about the game. I am just commenting on the solo vs. open world issue.

is there something I may be missing about solo vs. open servers?

 

[Asp Explorer]

is there something I may be missing about solo vs. open servers?

There aren't any

 

[gMcizzLe]

I'm in Mobius.. we have forums and community and everything, people who joined chose to do so it isn't mandatory forced or required. People flip between solo, group, and open, why do you feel it is fair to force people into open yet unfair for people to have a bloody choice.



Within your bounds... you said before if they want to be alone go out into the outlaying area.. you want an all inclusive game where you can interact with everyone, not everyone wants that game, why should your wants trump theirs? You have your game to play in open with others, quite trying to force people into your world. You talk about urban vs rural vs suburban.. people don't like being forced there either.





Wow.. my jaw is just dropping right now.. I cannot fathom how you can write and try to justify yourself. You walk down the street and call someone someone out for their action and call them a jerk they may flip you off, you walk up to someone and tell them they are wrong in how they live and need Psychiatric help they are going to be offended and upset. Having psychiatric help is not a bad thing, having some stranger online judging how you live your life, and your wrong and need professional help.. especially for teens who are already insecure and vulnerable,.. it is a bad thing. And again, who are you to say their fears are irrational.. your passing judgement and "advice" to people because they do not want to play a game YOUR way and are very obtrusive and rude.

IF you are forcing people into open, you are forcing them to a continual PVP zone, your forcing them to accept participating in PVP even if they have no desire to. You want people to work together for mutual benefit, yet your the one trying to edit what that benefit is. The ED gaming community is working for a mutual benefit with the game, your not, you are working towards YOUR benefit and dictating that everyone accept your view and benefit as what is right.

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he at no point ever advocated for everyone to play in solo. And if you had read the Many pages of the thread, you'd see that a LARGE part of the kickstarter funding was from people WANTING offline, they got Solo.

*Cough* Skyrim, Fallout. Mass Effect , Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines just a few of the single player games that long lasting and still popular as heck.. oh and they are all single player.. .Heck add in the original ELITE.

I'm not forcing anyone to play in "my" world. There should be only one world, and if you want to play, you play in that world. If you want designated PvP zones, so that people who don't want to PvP won't have to, then fine that is a valid compromise. As I mentioned in another reply, I wish there were more ways to co-op with other people on a more consistent basis (open world group quests, etc.). The important thing is that everyone shares the same space, just how it is in the real world. I'm talking about mutual benefit such that both players work together to obtain money or items (much like 5 man dungeons in WoW, or other MMOs). Again, even if there is multiple modes, they should at least be exclusive to one another, because in one mode something may be much more obtainable than in another mode, making it unfair at some level. I'm not judging anyone, it's a fact that humans are social by nature and need some kind of interaction to some degree in order to be happy. In nearly all cases those fears are totally irrational. A good example is some people posting in this thread that they don't want to get camped by other players, as if there is a band of players waiting for them to log on so they can grief them over and over the minute they log in. If that happens, you use the report button, just like you would dial 911 in the real world if someone were harassing you.

Yes, there are successful single player games, but not nearly as many, or as successful, as the top multiplayer games.

 

[Mohrgan]

I have many different moods within the game. I will want to tussle some days and I go in Open. Most times I want to fly in Group. Rarely, but often enough to mention, I will play in Solo. I never concern myself with any other players motivations. Meta gaming? Probably not.

Most of the time this old man just wants to fly around and shoot at some NPC's. That's it. I don't want to be chased around, and become someone elses' content. I just want the chance to do my thing. The current design shows an understanding that opinions vary. To support that, FD offers the most variety to their customers. We should be applauding that effort. Not justifying a reason(s) to reduce the players choices.

I'd said it before. One persons personal gaming ethics shouldn't be imposed on anyone else.