Hyperlethal
Banned
Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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Hyperlethal
Banned
exactly, and iv always maintained that the galaxy, even occupied space is big enough for a player to find his own spot to play in and not be bothered by others when debating solo vs oen, there really doesnt need to be a solo mode just take a few jumps off the beaten path and you wont see anyone, that is solo mode as far as im concerned, trade routs, res sights, conflict zones, missions they are all out there BUT, so is the threat, the possibility and that is enough o deter people who are focused on personal gain or goals that don't include players. as i said there is no incentive, no reward for the risk. the only way a player will be incouraged to take that risk is to offer a reward.
There also doesn't need to be any extra reward for risk in open if you can so easily avoid that risk. If you choose to face the risk then that's your choice, why should you be rewarded for it when it's optional?
The game currently offers no reward for that risk, why then would you say that players actually frequent the same systems and open themselves up to that risk if there is no incentive to do so? What do you think their motivation is?
Why should I be limited to certain systems? Why can't I visit Lave or Sol without being attacked by other players? I paid the same as everyone else why do I get a smaller game?
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As a solo, group and open player who switches depending what mood I'm in, I'd go with solo if forced to choose one.
I think many others would too, would that work for you ?.
You just conceded that open doesn't really mean greater risk. If you can just plunk yourself down in a deserted system thus avoiding the risk, why should open give greater rewards? This is exactly what my experience has been. Open is not riskier that the other modes, unless you want it to be.
solo mode? you mean cloaking device
No, I mean the option where I can choose not to play with other humans.
Hyperlethal
Banned
and the difference is?
Why would a cloaking device hide me from human ships but not NPC ships? How does that technology work? I'm not hiding from anything, I just don't want to have to interact with other players. I'm too polite to just ignore people if they hail me.
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None, we choose to play Solo just like you choose to play Open. Isn't the added risk the reason you're playing Open ? Why do you feel you need to be rewarded for it ? Why do you think more players in Open would be good ? Why would you want to play with someone that doesn't want to play with you ?
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Hyperlethal
Banned
well its like this either the game goes 100% open and excels, or keeps trying to compromise by allowing traders to remain invisible killing PVP as pirates have no targets, bounty hunters have no pirates marauders have no all of the above and same goes for the police/military RPers as no PVP is going on aaaaand open play fails making the multiplayer/MMO lable on the steam page a half truth at best. this game on a multiplayer is heavily dependent on this circle of life, or food chain but there is simply nothing in it for trading other than getting repeatidly killed because low and behold the player driven system that would otherwise see you protected for the most part has crumbled.
But look at it this way. players carry good rares for piracy, big bountys, a spot on the wanted list, what does the trader get? NOTHING how is that fair? is it literally just a matter of less risk so why would somone trading play open at all, you prefer not to but think about it, it makes no sense for any trader to ever go in open play and they rarely do as a result of this the MMO this game is trying to be is failing. if a pirate or bounty hunter stands to get more, so should a trader but because the traders stands to get nothing, he chooses to risk nothing, and so everyone else suffers
EDIT: Risk is everywhere, a player needs only look at the latest rare trade routs or set out on his own hunting expedition and he will find someone, maybe not you, but he will find someone and the more people play in open, the more the risk. but mainly im talking about the traders who as iv said are needed for the rest of the game to actually work in open play, maybe doing it only for systems that sell rares or see pvp which is easily tracked by the server, it just needs to require the trader not to enter solo or private between buying and selling and the same can be applied to bonds but as iv said the risk is anywhere and its easier to jsut apply the reward accordingly
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I just don't agree with your assumptions. Elite has been doing just fine offering individual choice. As a BH I make a pretty good income preying on NPC's only. I don't need some players bounty to make a living. I mostly play in Mobius, it's alive enough for me and arguably for the other players there. Elite offers a chance to PvP, but it does not require it.
The player that enjoys a trader role, just may not enjoy the pew pew at all. No one wants to be a victim.
I disagree that any of those roles rely on other players. Some of the NPCs need tweaking - particularly as piracy victims - but there is nothing inherent in any of them that require other players. After all, the original Elite offered all of the same roles.
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Hyperlethal
Banned
player interaction requires it, as iv said! this is exactly whats wrong with the game, player vs player bounty hunting, policing, PIRATING cant occur without the traders. there is plenty of reward for playing the cat but not the mouse so whats the point? it should just be a single player game sorry guys no MMO here :/
like you said no one wants to be the victim, but its not being a victim when there is a sweet prize involved, is the mous a victim when he gets away with premium cheddar? trust me traders arent that vulnerable, most submit and high wake out in my clipper's face. or out run my python, or just lol at my cobra and jump out in SC. others are really sneaky and use silent running and heat sinks and weird ways of fooling me. its really only the ones that just get scared and panic that i successfully pirate. but this is so rare now, maybe once or twice a night il find one at all :/
But really while you might not want to play in open at all (which is understandable its a good single player game) others might but simply do not see any gain, after all most will use trading just to get the big ship they want and then lose sight of the fun they could be having, they resort to solo at the first sign of trouble never having to learn the oh so simple ways and means of giving any player the slip, mostly avoiding it altogether. as i said traders are by no means a free kill, no one is! just the ones that presume they are.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
None of the roles that players can adopt in-game require other players as targets - it is player choice that requires players to be targets. We have all been told to "play the game how you want to" - that does not require any player to present themselves as targets for other players, unless they want to, of course. The game has been flexi-player from the beginning of the Kickstarter and was successfully funded on that basis - now that we are six months post launch, I don't expect that Frontier will change it for the benefit of players who rely on other players as content (even if the latter don't want to play that way).
That's the problem. Every "open mode only" advocate wants more traders in open so he can pirate them. The problem is the current PvP mechanic and complete imbalance of the ships.
The current situation makes it extremely risk free for pirate and puts all the risk and pressure on the trader. Even if both are in a similar ship - let's say a Python - the pirate will have the advantage as he can use those cargo bays the trader needs for SCBs. The pirate has the advantage of being able to select his target. The pirate has the advantage of better maneuverability as his ship isn't encumbered by cargo.
The pirate only risks the re-buy of his ship. The trader risks the re-buy of his ship and the price of the cargo.
The pirate doesn't have to fear NPC security (they are a complete joke).
So why should a trader play somewhere where pirates could be around? Doesn't matter if it's a remote system in open mode or in solo? The trader has nothing to win, but a lot to lose.
And to add insult to injury: rare trading is only something that is profitable for small ships. Yeay! Pirates get dedicated feeding grounds full of small, weak, easy targets with highly profitable cargo!
You want more players in Open mode? Stop thinking about a food chain.
Hyperlethal
Banned
not true at all, even without SCBs my python cant even catch a T-6, iv tried! i can get the shields down at best before he edges me out. the other side is the pirate is much more vulnerable to white knight, do gooder bounty hunters with their troll vultures and FDLs, they dont need to bother with limpets and scanners and cargo space, just 100% kill builds O_O trust me pirates are far easier to target and kill. and this is my biggest problem right now. people assume they are this vulnerable because they flee to solo at the first sign of trouble, not learning at early levels in cheap ships how easy it is to out fly aggressive players and go on to bigger ships and better builds still thinking they would be a free kill
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This can be paraphrased to "Unless the game is fundamentally altered to accommodate my desire for gratification, then I and all the players of my mindset will stop playing... well actually we won't because there are a couple more ships I've got my eye on and I'll need to RES grind some cash and then maybe sort out my faction... but apart from that... you give me sheep to cull or I AM LEAVING!"
The food chain and co-dependency arguments are a bust. If you asked CMDRs to post how many significant (eg more than 500k) player bounties they had collected in this game, I suspect you could write the list on the back of a postage stamp.
BH = npc farming and assassination missions. Not chasing through the galaxy looking for Derath or GluttonyFang and collecting their scalps (okay Derath allowed himself to be de-scalped when he took his hiatus).
Piracy against npc needs some work, because as everyone knows, npc ships carry small amounts of low value goods. Even if an L9 had 300t of bauxite and 30t of Imp Slaves, it would be of some use to CMDR pirates... I do believe there would still be some who would not be satisfied, as a key element of their pleasure is from giving other CMDR a negative experience.
The game does not revolve around non-consensual pvp. Once you can accept that, life gets so much easier
Hyperlethal
Banned
This can be paraphrased to "Unless the game is fundamentally altered to accommodate my desire for gratification, then I and all the players of my mindset will stop playing... well actually we won't because there are a couple more ships I've got my eye on and I'll need to RES grind some cash and then maybe sort out my faction... but apart from that... you give me sheep to cull or I AM LEAVING!"
The food chain and co-dependency arguments are a bust. If you asked CMDRs to post how many significant (eg more than 500k) player bounties they had collected in this game, I suspect you could write the list on the back of a postage stamp.
BH = npc farming and assassination missions. Not chasing through the galaxy looking for Derath or GluttonyFang and collecting their scalps (okay Derath allowed himself to be de-scalped when he took his hiatus).
Piracy against npc needs some work, because as everyone knows, npc ships carry small amounts of low value goods. Even if an L9 had 300t of bauxite and 30t of Imp Slaves, it would be of some use to CMDR pirates... I do believe there would still be some who would not be satisfied, as a key element of their pleasure is from giving other CMDR a negative experience.
The game does not revolve around non-consensual pvp. Once you can accept that, life gets so much easier
so where does this game stop being an SP/co-op and become player driven IE an MMO? because thats what its listed as
I guess that's why many pirates use the Clipper or other fast ships.
All this doesn't change the fundamental problem of open mode. There is no reason for a trader (or someone not interested in PvP) to play open and no added rewards and incredibly increased profits or financial risk reduced to zero will change that. Most players don't want to be victims.
All this talk about bounty hunters need pirates need traders - it's just wanting victims.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Are all MMOs PvP only?
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