Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

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Isn't the issue that its both? fortification and undermining both take very little time, counter each other and cannot be stopped, undermining is also the #1 way to earn merits if you aren't dumping your cash to buy them so that one gets done a huge amount basically everywhere.

I think thats KaizoMK's point, its certainly an element of powerplay that seems pretty daft its no wonder the 5th force expansion on crazy systems, its about the only activity that has any effect :p

I agree, Power Play is pretty daft. But it has nothing to do with having Open/Solo/Group.
 
The amount of voices raised to this topic should be reason enough to take this "problem" seriously and should encourage us on finding a solution.

Problem? I have no problem with the way the game works and considering the devs have said numerous times they are not planning on changing Solo/Open, I assume they have no problem either.

What follows are my impressions of the current situation containing opinions and views of people i have talked to through in game Chat and other sources.
I also wanted to point out that the in game talks resulted while participating in PP with people pledged to other factions and we starte.



  • Split Solo/Group and Open. Use the current saves without rolling something back and give the players the choice where they want to use their cmdr. To keep it fair for both worlds, cmdr's can not be copied over after that. Just that nobody get's a bad surprise add a certain time in in game hours as a time of consideration and point out the consequences of the choice.
    • To make it even more fair. People will be able to claim two copies of their cmdr just to not force them to start from scratch if they change their mind. Progress made in Solo/Group will not take influence on Open and vice versa.
    • Both worlds won't affect each other any further.
I think this is, though technically not easy to realize, the easiest solution to make everyone happy. Since i have the impression that Solo/Group players don't care if we exist or not, if we take influence on their galaxy or not, the won't miss the Open players and (at least my impression) vice versa. Threshold values might need adjustment to fit on the quantity of players.​
This is not a compromise, it significantly affect the way I play. I can't speak for everyone, but I bought a game with the ability to switch modes, I am not giving that up. I paid for it, and I happen to enjoy switching as my mood dictates. And, even if there are players out there right now that have no interest in open, who knows how they'll feel in 8 months time. Lock them to a mode and you'll lose them forever.

Regarding the split saves. I'm also not in favour of this. I have no interest in maintaining 2 cmdrs, one of which you'll expect me to maintain entirely for your benefit.

I like the shared Galaxy. I don't want a sterile universe that has me as the king. I don't want to have 400 billion stars at my personal disposal.

This argument is never going to die, just wait until the paid expansion pack comes that allows players to walk around their ships and board / take control of other ships. It's going to be fun with open players having no one to play with.
 
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I agree, Power Play is pretty daft. But it has nothing to do with having Open/Solo/Group.

probably not, though I can see why some people think that, some will take the view that open/solo/group stops it being viable, for myself I think its just designed badly if their goal was to have the various modes combine in a tug of war.
 
There's no way to stop people from undermining systems.

Who are you trying to stop? Your enemy? Let them keep Undermining, they are wasting their time, that's an advantage for you. Your own players? Yes, maybe, there should be a Power Chat channel or message board in game, or something to coordinate strategy. It still has nothing to do with Open/Solo.
 
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I agree, Power Play is pretty daft. But it has nothing to do with having Open/Solo/Group.

Considering one of the issues plaguing Power Play is affected by Open/Solo/Group, why not talk about changes that would lend itself to switching modes, since it's clearly an issue and changing open/solo/group isn't going to happen?

Anyway, I just addressed it because the thread was talking about it. I'm here to talk about changing the death penalty to encourage more players to try open.
 
I'm here to talk about changing the death penalty to encourage more players to try open.

It might encourage some, but not others. It wouldn't make any difference to me, I'm not trying to avoid a death penalty, I die all the time because I take silly risks just to see what happens or because I'm multi-tasking when I play. I don't play Open because I don't want to interact with other players.

But it would also change the nature of the game/galaxy. There would be no risk (presumably you'd also reinstate cargo on death or you still have a death penalty. Scan data?). You effectively turn the whole game into one big CQC. We already have too few consequences, we need to add some, not remove them.

I actually think harsher penalties for certain PvP kills would be more enticing for players who avoid death in Open. Removing the death penalty encourages PvP, increasing murder penalty discourages it. Even with no death penalty you still lose time.
 
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atak2

A
An idea I thought of over in the Guild thread. I won't reply because I promised to not get in arguments in this thread anymore but perhaps someone could make it viable:

I've had a bit of an idea:


Why not put all Guild players in a completely remote area of the map far from civilised space where we won't upset other people. An area so far from civilised space that it would take many years to conquer territory to get even a fraction of the distance to civilised space.


Have a bit of a story-line that Guild players (and lone players that want to participate) are pioneers sent to populate a new area of space in slow moving generation ships or have been in cryostasis.


Copy and paste the Powerplay system to that area of the galaxy with guilds as the figureheads.


The guild leader chooses from a list of the already established ethos, what their ethos will be.


Each new guild starts with ONE system a certain distance from other guilds and their space station is a scuttled generation ship (maybe use capital ship assets with some landing pads added).


Make it that guild activities can only be done in Open with the existing CMDR slot or a new Guild CMDR slot where you can't leave Open.


Players from Open or other modes such as explorers/traders could make the trek out to Guild space and trade etc but couldn't participate in the Guild territory games without joining/starting an Open only guild.


It could work because all the people not interested in Guild stuff would have all of existing civilised space free from Guild PvP players, have regular Powerplay in its PvE form and it would also solve both the Guild problem and fix the mode switching issue for Guild players that enjoy Open only PvP and Powerplay stuff.


With galnet - leave galnet as it is for non-guild players so they do not see Guild related stuff they dislike (or they could opt into it if they want). For guild players have their galnet where player made Guild submissions enter their galnet feed along with the regular galnet stuff. That way FD don't have to make galnet stuff for guild activities, only approve player made articles like they do already.
 
How many voices? A dozen? A couple of dozen? Out of over half a million players. Hardly significant. And there are just as many on both sides of the debate. The rest don't appear to feel strongly enough about it to raise the issues.



I'm not going to respond to every point, we'd be here all night, and it's too hot for that.

1) Why does the galaxy feel empty in Open? You assume that it is because everyone is in Solo/Group. Why do you never consider that people are just spread out over 400 billion systems?

2) & 3) are the same and conflict with 4)

4) We understand that you want a game that is about direct action but this is not it. In order to change the game to be what you want you would have to remove Solo/Group from your galaxy. This will require twice as much storage space, a separate GalNet, separate Community Goals, more Dev time to monitor/manage the data, write the narrative, and keep track of everything. That means less development and more costs. Now everyone is at a disadvantage, just because you want to change the game to something that you want.

Your solution does not make everyone happy despite what you think. It makes you happy and people who think like you. It would make lots of other people very unhappy because you have changed fundamental core features of the game that they bought. How would you feel if I changed the colour of your car without your permission because I like a different colour better? You would be a little annoyed I would expect.

I deliberately left that post alone for over an hour to cool off, lol, it was not going to end well, after it was explained (and cited) that being able to change modes on a session by session basis has been here since KS (that little project that ensured the game would be made, what FD asked people to invest real cash in originally), and still here 6 months post launch, 1 week old Dev quotes etc and I read "take abusive advantage of jumping between modes" well I need say no more. (and I had to limit myself to just 1 to comment on).

I do applaud you on your ability to explain things eloquently (although Jockey trumps you on pure facts on the leader board) :p.

With your communication skills, patience, ability to deal with nonsensical ranting you should really consider being a primary school teacher ;).

Ps, he did learn something "We" looks better than I, next question how big is "We"?

The funny thing is I have an Asp, Type6 & Vulture, no big ships and I do play in open more recently in the Type6 mainly, if I do I am not bothered about the rebuy or cargo (including rares), I can rebuy the Asp 30+ times, type6 >*4, I play how I want when I want for my amusement.

If FD linked forum accounts to game accounts, and allowed the blocking of players in the game through a button on their forum icon I think I would play open a lot more often.
 
You thought that was worth double-posting? Ho-hum!
If I made a double post that might be possible and not intended. I am on my mobile and after submitting the first post my connection timed out. The first post also contains and error. Funny thing I don't see the post, only the second. My apologies.
 
If I made a double post that might be possible and not intended. I am on my mobile and after submitting the first post my connection timed out. The first post also contains and error. Funny thing I don't see the post, only the second. My apologies.
I was replying to the post before yours, which had been posted by the birthday boy.
 
What are you talking about even?

Sorry, I should explain the problem a little bit better.

There are various things you do do in Powerplay, and most if not all of them award you merits. However, undermining by shooting down enemy ships is by far the most profitable, with 15 merits per kill, as opposed to fortification, which costs you money to do quickly or generally goes very slowly. The end result is that every system is virtually guaranteed to be undermined, every time, meaning systems can never expand. Furthermore, there's no bonus for undermining/fortifying past 100%, as both cancel each other out.....but players are undermining anyway because it's profitable. So you end up seeing systems that are 100+% fortified, but 900% undermined. This doesn't strike you as a problem, or odd?

As far as I can see, this basically means that a lot of players don't care about Power Play per see, they just want the rewards. Which might mean that players like me, that don't care at all about all the factional play in Power Play, are common.

It's also part of why I think exclusive rewards for certain kinds of content — such as anything PvP and, in ED, also Power Play — aren't a good idea. Those rewards attract, to a game mode where players should be willing to play along so everyone gets to enjoy it, players that don't actually want to play. Which means many of those players will simply do whatever it takes to get the rewards in the most effective possible way, even if it means harming the enjoyment of everyone else.

In many other MMOs you see this all the time when it comes to PvP. Win trading, players choosing to ignore each other and go for the tasks that give rewards, players exploiting the consolation prizes for the losers, etc, are all caused by players that are playing PvP just for the rewards.
 
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