I bought that for a girlfriend last year.
Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
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I bought that for a girlfriend last year.
Good morning all.
It is a beautiful day here in the Midlands, UK.
Blue sky, gentle breeze, birds singing and sun shining brightly.
Thought I'd share my good mood before my wife catches on that I can do the gardening today she wants doing, I hate gardening
I'd sooner play in Open in my T9 than do gardening
So have a good day all. Chances are, it will be better than mine will be soon
i'm Scottish, so if the sun is out, i am not!
garden safe commander
Do you ever tire of characterizing people who enjoy PvP style of play as bad people? I think all of us could benefit from a more moderated and balanced discussion.
People who like PvP are literally forced by the design of the game to shoot players who may not care for it. This is what happens when you allow PvP and force everyone on to the same server.
The people who bought the game for the PvP aspects aren't going to fly around asking for permission before shooting. Players can only "force their will on others players" because the game allows it.
If you have a problem with it, you should take it up with the developers rather than trying to make PvP'ers feel bad for playing the game their way.
There's nothing wrong with PvP - and playing in Open means that there's a good possibility you'll encounter another player who wants to engage you in combat. That's fair enough, part of the game, and can be enjoyable. For some people though, it does help to make it enjoyable, if there is at least some level of in-game "reason" for that combat, and not just because some drooling pew-pew puke with weapons-grade imbecility wants to level up their Lulz by seal-clubbing newbies.
Did you quote the wrong post?
Started , do not. Very Good At that, he is, Yes.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I would appreciate a quoted reference where I have characterised *all* players who enjoy PvP in such a way.
Regarding the single open server, there was a proposal a while ago by a forum member for an Open-PVE analog to the existing Open (no restrictions) mode. I expect that Frontier themselves want to limit us to three game modes but allow us the freedom to choose which mode we want to play in on a session-by-session basis.
PvP exists in Open - it is an implicit risk associated with playing in that game mode. Of course PvP players will not be expected to ask permission - however even a few words or bit of role-play might improve the experience for the selected target(s).
It's up to each PvP player whether they feel bad about the consequences of their play-style to those who do not share the same play-style. I don't initiate PvP but have had quite a few such encounters - escaped some, lost some, co-operated with the pirate in some - it's all part of the game.
Did you even both to read the context that post was made in and the quotes that were in it?
Also, no one is forced in to anything currently.
PvP is optional in ED. If someone bought ED for loads of PvP action, they should have read up more on the game.
It is a game that allows PvP - it is not a PvP game, there is a difference.
Also, Mods are allowed an opinion and can post it - if you don't like reading opinions that differ from your own, I'd suggest avoiding public forums. There has been pro open / PvP mod posts on this topic as well as pro choice Mods.
And if you've been following the topic at all, half of what was posted is about PvPers trying to get Solo / Groups closed, so PvP is forced on people who do not want it - something the Devs don't want, yet PvPers demand.
You mean those discussions where the some of the PvP crowd call people in Solo/Group, cheaters, cowards, carebears or similar?
Does that mean you support the idea of a PvE only server? No not Mobius as there is still a small chance of meeting a at that joins just to screw with people. I'd join a PvE server in a heart beat.
Personally I stay in places you can't get me. I will never be your content. Ever.
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This is quite literally the dumbest justification for unprovoked attacks on other players I've ever seen.
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He's not saying that players are forced to attack other players, he's saying if you choose to attack someone you're often attacking someone who doesnt want it.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That's a consequence of combining what would normally be the PvP and PvE servers of other games into one game mode.
True enough, but I played games with a pvp and pve modes and the pvp mode is always too violent for my tastes. The pvp mode becomes pvp only, everyone you see attacks or kills you.
I like elite how it is, however as mentioned it's usually unfair one party in the fight.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That may happen to Open here anyway - if the less combative / pugnacious players choose to leave Open because they're getting destroyed too often to be enjoyable by the PKers then the ratio of PKers to the total population in Open will get bigger. That would probably make Open worse for the slightly more combative / pugnacious players who may then leave Open, increasing the ratio again, and so on.
The PKers who don't like mode switching will probably blame it as the root of all their problems finding targets anyway though.
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Forgive me as I never meant to insinuate that you are Mike were directing comments at me, but I have been accused by some of "attacking" so best put my money were my mouth is so to speak.
Torque people have jumped on you, and sadly for good reason. I'm not going ot jump on you, but maybe try to explain. I can see that you feel you are being attacked, but in truth you are not. Not one person, that I know of, defending the game wants PVP cut out or believes all PVPers are bad people. They just do not all want to participate as some who are PVP advocates want to force them to do. This is the contention and crux of the matter..forced PVP. Some of us have gone to lengths stress it is certain types of PVPers that are the issue, an old adage comes to mind about throwing a stone and the first dog to yelp is the one you hit. Now if you are that type which is a griefer and someone who likes to screw over others just because you can.. then YES our comments are meant for you, otherwise your getting huffy for the wrong reasons. Your comments though.. don't make a lot of sense, I really do think you misquoted Robert.
"People who like PvP are literally forced by the design of the game to shoot players who may not care for it. " - If you are playing in open you are playing knowing that there is a good chance your going to get shot at by others. PVPers are NOT forced by the game design to shoot players who may not care for it. If they didn't care for it.. they wouldnt' be in open, on the slim chance they are in open and don't care for pvp but there for interaction... direct them to Mobius.
"This is what happens when you allow PvP and force everyone on to the same server.The people who bought the game for the PvP aspects aren't going to fly around asking for permission before shooting. Players can only "force their will on others players" because the game allows it." Everyone is not forced on the same server, we have 3 modes solo/private/open. What your describing is what we are fighting against. That is what some "Open Only" advocates want.. one server we are all on that allows them to shoot people and force them into PVP.
"If you have a problem with it, you should take it up with the developers rather than trying to make PvP'ers feel bad for playing the game their way." The only PVPers I want to feel bad are the greifing twits who's main goal is ruining others playing and making others feel bad because they can't stand people having fun, the "I must make myself feel good by making other people feel bad" type of jerks.
the games where the PvP gets too harsh don't usually have an enormous amount of space to disappear in, its easy to find people to gank because you can reliably tell where people will be. In ED if you avoid the rare routes and the hotspots that appear from time to time you won't see anything.
Like realistically in comparison to other PvP games even in open you get an enormous amount of choice to avoid pvp, I don't think ED could have any more outs short of a full pve server. (note that isn't a bad thing, just saying if people currently in open leave when they get ganked by trollish griefers they have strange expectations)
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
True - and they don't have mode switching that allows all players to enjoy the core systems regardless of what some players would want.
"If you avoid the rare routes" - of course those who want to hunt players are going to setup in rare producing systems - they get more passing trade that way.
Actually, an Open-PvE server would be an equitable development for those with no interest in PvP but who are quite sociable - it would allow them to meet other random players with no PvP potential.
rare routes are one of the only reliable place to find players, I also have held the belief since I started playing ED that rares were created as a piracy good, they buy for almost nothing and sell for an enormous amount its a perfect commodity for piracy as you only lose time for having to drop some (as opposed to say palladium where you lose time + substantial money) Either way I think they'll always be a hotspot.
Separating the game from real life (or the inability to fully do so) is exactly why I react like that. Not on an intellectual level, mind, but as it relates with how I feel; having anything in-game stolen by a player, for me, feels just as bad as being mugged in real life.
And yeah, I agree I might be an extreme case.
I agree. Which is why I posted it in the Open vs Solo thread, and not in some random piracy thread. My intent was to point that, no matter how player piracy is handled, there will always be some players for whom it's never going to work, which means those players absolutely require a way to completely avoid it in order for the game to be even worth playing.
Actually, most of humanity. It's a well known fact, the subject of countless psychological researches. It's why the Stock Exchange often behaves in an irrational way whenever perceived risks rise, why entrepreneurs are cherished and celebrated in society.
Not only that, but for most people the negative feeling when they lose something is far more powerful than the good feeling when they win something.
Which means that any game that hopes to go mainstream must be enjoyable for risk-adverse persons, no way around it unless the devs want their game to be a niche game.
Incidentally, most humans being risk-adverse is why those that aren't are often called "reckless," "daredevil," or something similar; they are the exception.
Some people do think like this; there are people that can't enjoy something unless they earned it through a combination of effort and daring.
But, as far as I know, this kind of people is rare.
Besides, if you are talking about game development, what needs to be rewarded isn't risk-taking, but rather enjoyable gameplay. Rewards should be used to guide players to the content they will enjoy. To do otherwise, to reward players for doing things they don't like, is to make players quickly burn out and leave the game.
Or worse. According to some UO devs, PKers hunting newbies had the game nearly on its death spiral when it was "rescued" by making PvP effectively optional.
thanks....
Is That Guy still arguing? Sheesh!
either way though. Too many seem to think I / we are ginding in solo with a view to being psycho mentalists in open once we have money, which as i am sure you are bright enough to realise is not my intention at all.
Exactly as I see it also. There seems to be a great chunk of paranoia on the force-everyone-to-open side that "all the solos are cheating me and manipulating the game!"
As far as I am concerned, I only did 2 community goals (just to contribute to, you know, the community). I also knew other players, even opposing ones, would get the same benefits/rewards as me, but so what? It was fun.
Otherwise, and from reading a bunch of these forum threads, most of the Solo/Group players are out there doing their own thing. I see no-one going "hardy-har-har! I am pulling a fast one on Open!" - I see mostly people trading, exploring, doing some pewpew... certainly not gangs of people united in their need to screw with things just for the hell of it, particularly in PowerPlay.
What I do see is this: Open guys explaining why they "had" to drop into solo mode "because it wasn't fair." Some Open guys giving tips on how to game the system for Ranks and Powerplay stuff. Posts about (with video evidence) using shield/ammo/scb hacks. Etc. It seems like more Open players than not are the ones "ducking into Solo" and abusing the Mode switching mechanic. You know, the "metagamers."
So please don't worry that I am planning to nefariously undermine your system, or get a Big Ship to bring to Open to fight you, or grape your sister and grandmother or whatever. In fact, I'm about 1000ly away from anybody and that's the way I prefer it.
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