Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... and we're about to receive the revised bounty system whereby players cannot simply pay-off bounties immediately.
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.... and we're about to receive the revised bounty system whereby players cannot simply pay-off bounties immediately.
People seem to be defining pvp as "shooting other players" It's not. Traders in solo mode are probably pvping more than anyone else due to the background simulation. A few traders in solo in T9's removing the supply of palladium from a station affects more players than one player shooting another in open mode.
The fact that the game universe is shared by all players and all players actions can affect the game universe clearly shows that the game is a pvp game.
I don't really care about solo vs open or mode switching except in the case of community goals like the ones in Lugh.
I think solo should have it's own separate community goals from open as a lot of the community goals clearly give players in solo mode an advantage over open. It's impossible to have a community goal to stop people smuggling when players can swap to solo and smuggle without consequences and there no way you can argue with that.
It would make it fair if you have multiple goals in a system and say 4 planets. Have 2 goals on 2 planets in solo and 2 on the other 2 planets in open and then base the outcome by adding up the results. This way everyone can compete "fairly" and noone gets left out or feels cheated.
The fact that the game universe is shared by all players and all players actions can affect the game universe clearly shows that the game is a pvp game.
I don't really care about solo vs open or mode switching except in the case of community goals like the ones in Lugh.
I think solo should have it's own separate community goals from open as a lot of the community goals clearly give players in solo mode an advantage over open. It's impossible to have a community goal to stop people smuggling when players can swap to solo and smuggle without consequences and there no way you can argue with that.
It would make it fair if you have multiple goals in a system and say 4 planets. Have 2 goals on 2 planets in solo and 2 on the other 2 planets in open and then base the outcome by adding up the results. This way everyone can compete "fairly" and noone gets left out or feels cheated.
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dont forget both sides have ppl on solo ;p
Here is your problem right there;
You've decided you know better than the people who make the game, to why they made it. News flash - you know nothing of the sort.
This was a remake of a single player game made for modern day computers, which they decided to tack multiplayer on as an after thought.
Not much PvP goes on in a single player game.... think about it for a second yeah, stop with your grandstanding and remove your ego from this and actually think about it.
DB has said enough and done enough to prove this game is about the individuals experience (check the link in my sig re: KS and DDA).
The multi features are an after thought and PvP is a side effect - not a reason for it. DB even said himself, seeing other players is supposed to be "rare".
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
While combat is not the only form of PvP, it is the most easily identifiable form. A player who is attacked by another player can be sure that they have encountered a PvP interaction. A player trading cannot be sure why prices have changed on their current trade route - it may be as a result of the actions of other players, it may not. As to the consequences of PvP, having one's ship destroyed will probably be more economically detrimental to a player than a reduction in profits on a trade route.
Talk more bro, if you right I never ever see a so bad balance PvP Game. No balance at all, no rules nothing . What is with the X-box Cmdr and your "only open progess"?
The possible to kill other players make a game not to a PvP Game.
It was only Elite 84 with Highend Engine and MP but Wings, Community Goals and so on are stand by...
Can I suggest that we rename this thread "The Groundhog Hog Day" thread, (or the Edge of Tomorrow, if you prefer a more sci-fi theme), as it just seems to keep going round in circles. I keep saying to myself I am not going to visit this thread today, but like a car crash on the motorway you are drawn to look at it as you pass!
On a more serious note, as we now know that about 400K+ people have now bought this game,maybe some stats from FD detailing the percentage of Solo/Open players might go to answering some of the repeated questions.
On a more serious note, as we now know that about 400K+ people have now bought this game,maybe some stats from FD detailing the percentage of Solo/Open players might go to answering some of the repeated questions.
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Only 13 more replies to hit 5000 posts. We can do it!!! \o/
But if FDev give us stats we might not actually make Threadzilla status!!! No Facts, please!!!
But if FDev give us stats we might not actually make Threadzilla status!!! No Facts, please!!!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... only 5,012 more until we need to open "The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread II - The Sequel"
Robert, I like it a lot!, maybe in the tradition of all sequels, we could get a "C" list actor/Actress to open the first thread!
I agree with you there but just because one form is more visible it still doesn't invalidate my point.
As I said before this doesn't bother me in normal gameplay but in the event of a community goals (like the ones currently in Lugh) it's a flawed system. If one side has to smuggle and the other has to stop the smugglers there's noway for the "stop the smugglers" side to combat the smugglers in solo.
Whilst both sides in Lugh have players in solo as well as open, it's pretty much the antithesis of the point of community goals which is supposed to encourage meaningful cooperative play if there's a way to avoid other players.
From a pvp combat perspective it's just as bad at Lugh 11 where the feds have a capitol ship. I'm not saying war should be fair as it's not supposed to be in combat situations. In the case of Lugh 11 the feds can stay in open with the cap ship on their side and it's impossible for the Lugh players to tackle the event in open. That's an event that's split Lugh to solo and Fed to open. Feds also have players in solo who have it even easier since they don't have to compete with other players on their own side.
This style of CG is always going to be geared towards the cap ship side but currently any event like this is geared more to cap ship side in solo than open.
TL/DR:
The way it is right now community goals need work. We've had solo players screaming out from day one to not make open have benefits over solo. The irony is that we now have community goals to encourage meaningful cooperative play but there's even less incentive to do them in open mode as they're more profitable and with less risk for solo players.
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Or just give it the subtitle of "The Wheel Of Time"...
LMAO !
Best post of the thread !
Tell me Yaffle is working on his opening post for it, something like "I'd like to thank the community for making this squeal possible, the hard work of the Mod team...." etc, a real Oscar style speech for it
So, player encounters should be interesting, but part of this is the ability to avoid player encounters? And this sounds logical to you?
Now, if they gave us cloaking devices and detection equipment (or whatever lore-friendly alternative) so we can play hide and seek, I'd call that an interesting player-player encounter. But when I'm in Open and you're solo, we have no encounter. Nothing interesting about that.
And my insistence on ED being a PvP game is based on pure facts. I offered them, here they are again:
- open PvP anywhere design - no safe zones whatsoever, except the hangar box
- minimal or nonexistent enforcement of metagaming rules
- player competition is highly encouraged (for example, up until recently players had to fight over bounties, opposing combat goals in Lugh etc.)
That's a PvP game on the level of hardcore PvP games such as EvE or Darkfall. You can be attacked anywhere, there are no rules, there are no failsafes, no safe zones and no enforcement of any kind.
Now that's Open game ruleset. Pure PvP. And if there wasn't an option to freely switch to solo and back, you wouldn't be arguing with me whether ED is a PvP game or not.
But there is such an option. And I call it bad multiplayer design, because it tries to force two totally incompatible modes together. We have basically two mutually antagonizing concepts rolled into one. And violating the precise reason why games separate PvE from PvP servers. Because whichever way you turn it, those two crowds do NOT want to play together and have opposing goals in the game. PvE players don't want to be "entertainment for gankers" as you put it, and PvP players don't want invulnerable PvE players frolicking through their battlefields and messing up the score. Friction will ensue.
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You List only one Mode. Yes without any other mode at release ED PvP friendly, ups only one problem 3 mode...
You will never understand with only 32 Players in one bubble it make no different for you PKler. You cant kill every Player. 100k or 200k or 300k Players you will never ever see. And again what will you do with the X-Box Cmdr. ?
I understand now with the Community Goals many Cmdr. at one point but not at your instance...
Go play really Hardcore PvP Games Day Z or your Eve or... but dont explain why you think ED is PvP HC anymore if you forget all big points against HC PvP in ED..
You will never understand with only 32 Players in one bubble it make no different for you PKler. You cant kill every Player. 100k or 200k or 300k Players you will never ever see. And again what will you do with the X-Box Cmdr. ?
I understand now with the Community Goals many Cmdr. at one point but not at your instance...
Go play really Hardcore PvP Games Day Z or your Eve or... but dont explain why you think ED is PvP HC anymore if you forget all big points against HC PvP in ED..
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I'm limiting my reply to this last paragraph because everything you say prior to it is just more of what you have said before... and it still 'ain't so'. (Besides I have to start work in 3 mins
)Who are these 'invulnerable PVE players you talk about? And what are these PVP battlefields? As far as i am aware their are no PVP battlefields anywhere in the game.
LMAO !
Best post of the thread !
Tell me Yaffle is working on his opening post for it, something like "I'd like to thank the community for making this squeal possible, the hard work of the Mod team...." etc, a real Oscar style speech for it
That's a fantastic idea, would be funny.
Bearing in mind we are on page 333 at the almost the halfway point, I wonder what the odds are of it ending on 666.
By my layout this is page 100, 50 replies per page.
I'm limiting my reply to this last paragraph because everything you say prior to it is just more of what you have said before... and it still 'ain't so'. (Besides I have to start work in 3 mins
Who are these 'invulnerable PVE players you talk about? And what are these PVP battlefields? As far as i am aware their are no PVP battlefields anywhere in the game.
Lugh opposing community goals, ever heard of it?
See, ordinarily you're right - up until now, community goals were basically a grind competition. The only PvP that was possible was by accident or because someone really wanted to blow up a player. But it was all about PvE.
But now, we have opposing goals. We have Team Crimson on one side, and Team Fed on the other. The goal is to win the war for the system. Not help a faction win. Who wins is up in the air. And it's all down to players. That's right. I remember the argument "oh, but players only assist, it is the background simulation..."
The background simulation doesn't work. FD have to adjust things manually, and they do it based on the results of community goals. So it's down to the players, 100%.
So there is your PvP battlefield. Or rather, it would have been a PvP battlefield if it were not for the flawed design which basically makes the whole thing a competition (again) at grinding. Since players can't really prevent a whole army of soloers or private groups from farming braindead NPCs, the whole shebang tilts in the favor of not the team with the most skilled players, but the team who has the most efficient grinders.
So we who play in Open end up fighting a battle that has no point because it will be decided by invulnerable, invisible ghosts in another dimension.
Lol I forgot there was an option to change it, I do remember seeing it somewhere now you mention it, pretty sure mine is on the default setup.
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