I agree completely.
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I agree completely.
Michael's answer is towards " Will we ever have 2 different universes?". We ask will we have different commanders...one for solo on for open.
Yes but in groups. They require parties, groups, guilds and so on. And also the endgame. Why exclude it?? We all know endgame is about pvp right now. Maybe it will change with 1.3 but i doubt people ever rise above their dark cave of fluffyness and protection(solo) to play in open ever, so what FD are saying about incentive to pvp....NOPE. Because there is no reward. Every game rewards groups at least a little better tahn solo. Yes you do your job in a group, not lone wolfing. At least a tiny tiny bit of reward, but there is one you can't deny it. You examples have that too. I want to see you solo kill a high level group quest in Neverwinter. And the crew is a big joke...
I didnt say it has to be some kind of group effort. This is not Esports. But we have no reason whatsoever to play in open, not even with our friends. We even get less money that way lol, what a joke of a party system
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As individuals we can contribute to outcomes whether we play in wings or alone.
But in the end it comes down to numbers - individually or collectively.
It won't matter how well organised and efficient your gang is - if you are supporting this smug looking, cravated, poncy sash wearing, quiffed individual with "interesting" facial hair.
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/dcbf6...ages/8caeb531-51da-4d55-a111-eed0524476fe.jpg
You will still be outdone by the sheer numbers of people that will support the princess - just because she's hot (assuming they don't make her look like a cross between Quasimodo and Miss Piggy).
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You mean like surviving alone in the revamped Dread Ring? Done and Done. Lairs? Same.
Also I do find your remarks about fluffyness and dark caves quite demeaning. Is it really so hard to understand that quite a few people bought Elite Dangerous for the promised feature of being able to play it on their own?
Why would PvP be the endgame? For me the endgame would be to actually getting crushed in a Black Hole somewhere at the edge of the galaxy, and my CMDR only be remembered by a random metal plaque somewhere on a planet he discovered. Just because Elite is a space game, it doesn't have to be just a space COMBAT game. Different people enjoy different things in the game, some shoot others, some mine asteroids for hours, others run the same trade route again and again, refine it and make it better. For them the endgame is certainly not PvP.
An no, there doesn't need to be a carrot stuck onto Open mode. People should play Open because they WANT to, not because they have to if they want some shiny tat that is otherwise unobtainable, that is a really bad game design idea. If you need to give incentive to play a game mode, then the fault does not lie in the player that do not want to participate in it, but the game mode itself.
EDIT: also on the note of "rewards" for group play. A rare drop that everyone and their grandmother needs on just because it's a drop? That is the last thing I want to see in this game. It's one of the features of MMOs that I'm getting really tired of, and luckily most are moving to the "exchange currency for guaranteed drop" mode.
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As individuals we can contribute to outcomes whether we play in wings or alone.
But in the end it comes down to numbers - individually or collectively.
It won't matter how well organised and efficient your gang is - if you are supporting this smug looking, cravated, poncy sash wearing, quiffed individual with "interesting" facial hair.
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/dcbf6...ages/8caeb531-51da-4d55-a111-eed0524476fe.jpg
You will still be outdone by the sheer numbers of people that will support the princess - just because she's hot (assuming they don't make her look like a cross between Quasimodo and Miss Piggy).
I get that and i dont plan on supporting any of them. I want to choose a small faction and help it grow more and more. What i actually meant is: in MMO's you are more or less required to play with other people. Ok! Furthermore, you get some even small rewards for doing so, other times big rewards. But there is always something keeping players in groups. In elite this is missing, and we will never have the feeling of galactic powers if everybody is in solo, and the systems are empty...
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
In some MMOs. In most MMOs. It is not the 11th Commandment "MMOs shalt be for groups only". But there is something keeping people in groups in Elite, it's irresponsible PvP players for the most part.
Also trade dividends, drive slaving, and the gleeful smile when a pirate interdicts one ship of the wing, and everyone drops out to welcome the brave soul with gunfire....
I haven't played an MMO (assuming everyone agrees ED isn't one - which seems to be contested).
But everyone does things for their own reasons. Sometimes I play with others here because it's fun - that's the reward in itself and that's why I play the game. Though I always play in open as my preference.
If people are playing in a way they don't like just so they can "win" or be more efficient that doesn't sound like fun - at least to me.
It looks like ED is trying to be all things to all people and viewed from the extremes of either side of the argument that would like a mistake - but for everyone in the middle - it might be working just fine..
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This is because in ED we are allowed to play our own way. As for the 'galactic powers' they will go on about their business with or without help from players but even if every player was in solo those players can still contribute to helping 'their' faction.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
This is the post that I replied to:
Please note the specific inclusion of "it's own background simulation / PP / community goals / etc" in addition to "it's own save".
Also, with respect to mode switching:
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Although I think this would be a great solution, there might be some complications.
Personally, I see the only valid grievance people have with the different modes the way CG are handled and even in the current setting there would be different options to even that out with for example: in a warzone have a lower limit on the number of ships any faction has and have that trigger the spawn mechanism, etc...
However, if we get different CG for each mode, this might again lead to new problems. We see that in some situations the outcome of the CG will determine the timeline for the entire universe. Will faction A be victorious in system B, will person Y gain influence over person X. These kinds of things, from GalNet and in community goals will mean that if we have say 4 CGs for an event, and 2 support faction 1 in open and solo, the other 2 support faction 2 in open and one in solo, what would determine the eventual outcome of said events? Because then we might get complaints that either the solo or the open CG have more effect on the outcome of the conflict.
And if they were completely split (some conflicts are only in open, other conflicts only in solo) this would force people who feel involved to jump between game modes.
Also, how would you handle groups? Since there are potentially 500k+ groups (everyone can start a group and have different members and code of honour for players in that group), would you need a CG per group? Would people join the group that makes them perceive the most advantage?
Also related to the skill argument: how do you propose to balance between casual players and players who have loads of free time? Should your contribution to a CG be divided by the time you play for that CG? And should it be divided by your total assets, so even new players have a fair chance to come out on top?
I know some of these examples are oversimplified, but it does indicate the difficulty FD must have in balancing everything with this many people with this many preferences of play-style.
Yes, it is not as simple as I put it, but if FD ever finds a solution and decides to move that way, I won't be getting the torches and the pitchforks ready
I have no qualms with the current situation, and honestly haven't played much of CGs to gauge how much impact solo has on it, mostly because pre-wings the game didn't interest me enough to even start it up.. and I had it since premium beta. Wings brought a bit of life to the gameplay of me and my friends, and we could finally have some fun together. Powerplay does look interesting, but we'll see which way it goes. But I probably have less problems then most posters because I don't give a damn about what other players do in the game, and just fly around enjoying being at the wheel of a multi ton space craft being able to traverse known space.
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There is no 'valid grievance' here. It really is quite simple. Assuming, and I'm not saying this is true but just assuming, that in a CG situation playing for it in solo is the most effective method. Ok, that's it. The most effective method is solo, now everyone knows that. If players then choose to play in open they have made that deliberate choice. Of course, this also works the other way around. Once again assuming that in another case working in open (not necessarily PvP) is the most effective method to achieving the CG goal then if players choose to remain in open they have again made a deliberate choice. In both cases the choice is 'preferred mode' or 'most effective mode'. Simples.
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There is a valid grievance. The solo/pve crowd are dead against any open bonuses and rely on the argument that every mode should be equal. In this case the current game mechanics show a disparity in the effectiveness of the different modes and thus the current community goal mechanics forces players to solo/group to make a valid contribution to the goal. If you argue for equality between the modes then you must recognize the disparity. If they added bonuses for playing in open then the solo/pve crowd would complain stating that it's not equal and the game was forcing them in to open.
Asking for a ramp up in the AI like in my previous post is the best solution. CR bonuses for open players is the worst imo because even if it does "fix" the disparity on a purely financial basis (which it would cr wise) to the casual observer it looks like fd are forcing people to open.
The end of the day under the current game mechanics there is a huge advantage in going solo/group in community goals which doesn't seem right since "community" should be bring people together.
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If we assume the Xbone is the Federation, the PC and the Mac can fight who will be the Alliance and who will be the Empire, then we have achieved perfect balance, and the war can begin *sagenod*
I don't believe that's true. The "solo/pve crowd" are dead against certain open players dictating how the game should be changed to benefit the way that they want to play it. We are pretty much happy with how things are with the modes for the most part thanks (apart from the way some open players conduct themselves in game).
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