Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Distance]

And shared bounties, shared exploration and back-up.

Well the bounty being shared means you earn less per hour if you're in a wing so actually discourages people from winging unless they're in to pvp. In exploration only one player gets the discovered by tag. It's good as the system data is shared between explorers but then it's a race against your wing man to get the explored by tag by turning the data in first. I don't see anyone wing exploring properly as if you're a week out in to deep space and your wing man has to leave for the night what's the other player going to do? Stop playing or split up from the wing and carry on?

Wings is an advantage in the sense that it allows you to maybe take on ships you wouldn't do normally or in pvp but since there's no actual content for wings other than uss (which you have to go through multiple ones to find something that maybe worth tackling) it's not as good as people think it is. Due to the shield bug it actually makes the pvp experience even duller and encourages ganking. With the beacon exploit and the force multiple wings in to an instance exploit the mechanic has been pretty much broken since day 1.

 

[SteveLaw]

Well the bounty being shared means you earn less per hour if you're in a wing so actually discourages people from winging unless they're in to pvp. In exploration only one player gets the discovered by tag. It's good as the system data is shared between explorers but then it's a race against your wing man to get the explored by tag by turning the data in first. I don't see anyone wing exploring properly as if you're a week out in to deep space and your wing man has to leave for the night what's the other player going to do? Stop playing or split up from the wing and carry on?

Wings is an advantage in the sense that it allows you to maybe take on ships you wouldn't do normally or in pvp but since there's no actual content for wings other than uss (which you have to go through multiple ones to find something that maybe worth tackling) it's not as good as people think it is. Due to the shield bug it actually makes the pvp experience even duller and encourages ganking. With the beacon exploit and the force multiple wings in to an instance exploit the mechanic has been pretty much broken since day 1.

Ive never used the beacon exploit. Didn't even know it was there because as a Wing we always travelled together and only used the Beacon when we needed help and were in the same system. Did not even think to do it any other way because that's not what a wing is. Must you see everything as a score though? Relax man, just enjoy.

 

[Distance]

Ive never used the beacon exploit. Didn't even know it was there because as a Wing we always travelled together and only used the Beacon when we needed help and were in the same system. Did not even think to do it any other way because that's not what a wing is. Must you see everything as a score though? Relax man, just enjoy.

I don't see everything as a score and pretty much play purely for fun not cr now. Since there is no meaningful way to measure progression in the game other than cr/ships the majority of players boil things down to cr that is why I use it in my examples.

These are valid reasons why wings isn't the advantage solo players seem to think it is because a lot of players who could be using wings aren't because of the above.

I never found the beacon exploit personally as when I'm in a wing I travel in a wing or use it as a way to chat to my friends using quick chat since the current comms system randomly loses the person you were chatting to last.

 

[Jackboot]

Rough summary.
You saw someone having a lot of fun in the game and thought I'd like to have as much fun as that.
But you didn't, so rather than switch modes, you decided that the other players fun should be minimised to fall inline with your playing style.

that about it?

I don't want anyone's fun to be minimized. I want mine to be maximized.
There has to be a way to balance two pilots, with the same ships, with similar loadouts and skills, fighting in the same area against the same enemies so that one pilot doesn't routinely earn 5-10 times as many rewards as the other.
The solution shouldn't be "just switch to solo" because some people, like myself, do not play outside of open.

 

[SteveLaw]

The solution shouldn't be "just switch to solo" because some people, like myself, do not play outside of open.

It's your choice to do that. You play Open because you enjoy the greater threat it provides, it could be seen as a trade off. Choices and consequences. Earn more "rewards" (5-10 times?) or face greater threat. Part of that great threat, surely, is a chance of less reward from more competition? They are different types of rewards and it's your choice as to which is more valuable to you.

 

[Distance]

It's your choice to do that. You play Open because you enjoy the greater threat it provides, it could be seen as a trade off. Choices and consequences. Earn more "rewards" (5-10 times?) or face greater threat. Part of that great threat, surely, is a chance of less reward from more competition? They are different types of rewards and it's your choice as to which is more valuable to you.

No it's your choice to limit who you play with by setting the mode flags not a choice to play a different mode because the current game mechanics don't work equally between modes.

In b4 huge block of text with "choose" highlighted several times.

 

[SteveLaw]

No it's your choice to limit who you play with by setting the mode flags not a choice to play a different mode because the current game mechanics don't work equally between modes.

I understand how the modes work, it makes no difference whatsoever to anything that's been said by any of us. The "because" is entirely your interpretation, that isn't why the choices were added.

 

[Lestenio]

I don't want anyone's fun to be minimized. I want mine to be maximized.
There has to be a way to balance two pilots, with the same ships, with similar loadouts and skills, fighting in the same area against the same enemies so that one pilot doesn't routinely earn 5-10 times as many rewards as the other.
The solution shouldn't be "just switch to solo" because some people, like myself, do not play outside of open.

You'd maximise your fun a lot more if you worried less about what other people were doing and just enjoyed your own game.

 

[Distance]

I understand how the modes work, it makes no difference whatsoever to anything that's been said by any of us. The "because" is entirely your interpretation, that isn't why the choices were added.

Not at all. FD wanted to make an open world online version of elite and added the choices for people who wanted to limit their player interactions. A lot of people wanted a single player or offline version of elite which is fine but to do this they had to come up with the current system of matchmaking or they'd have to be supporting multiple versions of the same game.

It's a real shame about offline but since solo is the next best thing that's why it's a choice. I know a ton of players who wouldn't have bought the game if it was solo only just the same as I know a lot of people bought it purely to play solo.

This is the problem with the solo vs open debate, no matter how you discuss things that are a valid problem to a game mode you have people counter with the "but it's a choice" line and we devolve back to which mode is better.

They don't market the game with "trade alone in a universe affected by other players you can't see". If they did you might have a point but if you pull the "it's a choice" line to counter valid concerns you're missing the points other players are making and it isn't conductive to honest debate.

 

[SteveLaw]

This is the problem with the solo vs open debate, no matter how you discuss things that are a valid problem to a game mode you have people counter with the "but it's a choice" line and we devolve back to which mode is better..

I've never said one mode is better than any other although you seem to be saying that. All I'm saying is that they are different. Each offers different advantages and disadvantages, it's a trade off. You choose whichever type of play you prefer at the time you want to play. You perceive Solo's advantage is that you get more rewards, I see it as being able to play the way I want without the chance, however remote, of meeting the sorts of players I do not want to spend my recreation time with. The disadvantage is that I get a slightly less dynamic galaxy.

The beauty is that we both get to choose whichever is the most important aspect for us. You have to balance which advantage outweighs which disadvantage and make your choice. If you feel you made the wrong choice, change it. You are free to do so anytime you want. If you choose to limit your options to one mode only then that is also your choice, but that is not something that Frontier, or any other player, should have to make changes to accommodate. You made the choice to limit your own options.

I've already said that in term of the Community Goals you may be right and separate leaderboards would be more reflective but no other part of the game is a competition so no other balance is needed. You are free to play in whichever way, in whichever mode you choose at whichever time. That may not be balanced, in your terms, but it is fair. It doesn't need to be balanced because every player has the same choices as every other player.

 

[FuzzySpider]

The problem with Open is that it has turned into a PvP gametype, and as PvP gametypes go Elite is terrible. It could be an absolutely wonderful PvP experience, but it completely lacks the gameplay framework to make such a mode fun. Being ganged up on by 4 other players in a wing isn't fun. Facing a FDL in your Lakon does not a good gaming experience make.

This can be very easily resolved with a simple matchmaking mechanic. Isolate human pilots by their ship type. Have different tiers of ships based on what they are and how they are outfitted (score them after doing some test runs) and then only allow ships of the same tier to actually meet in open. That'll solve a lot of problems.

 

[Morbad]

The problem with Open is that it has turned into a PvP gametype, and as PvP gametypes go Elite is terrible. It could be an absolutely wonderful PvP experience, but it completely lacks the gameplay framework to make such a mode fun. Being ganged up on by 4 other players in a wing isn't fun. Facing a FDL in your Lakon does not a good gaming experience make.

This can be very easily resolved with a simple matchmaking mechanic. Isolate human pilots by their ship type. Have different tiers of ships based on what they are and how they are outfitted (score them after doing some test runs) and then only allow ships of the same tier to actually meet in open. That'll solve a lot of problems.

I can't agree with this, and such matchmaking flies in the face of plausibility and undermines sound strategy.

 

[FuzzySpider]

I can't agree with this, and such matchmaking flies in the face of plausibility and undermines sound strategy.

I'm not sure what you mean by plausibility.

As for sound strategy, what strategy is there for a Vulture facing an Eagle? Does he decide to laugh or just wipe the floor with him? What tactics do 3 FDLs use against a Clipper set up for trading? If two Anacondas interdict an Asp, just on his way out to explore, having stripped the ship of all weapons what, exactly, can the two Anacondas do to possibly win!?

Putting a matchmaker in place will actually put sound strategy and skill back into the game. Right now too many people seem to want to just use bigger and/or more powerful ships to overwhelm weaker ones, which is basically the same as wanting easy mode against other players. That fails as a PvP concept.

 

[Distance]

This can be very easily resolved with a simple matchmaking mechanic. Isolate human pilots by their ship type. Have different tiers of ships based on what they are and how they are outfitted (score them after doing some test runs) and then only allow ships of the same tier to actually meet in open. That'll solve a lot of problems.

So if I want to pirate a T6 I have to do it in a T6?

Congratulations on the worst post in this thread.

 

[fademist]

So if I want to pirate a T6 I have to do it in a T6?

Congratulations on the worst post in this thread.

think to pirate t9 with t9 ;p

 

[FuzzySpider]

So if I want to pirate a T6 I have to do it in a T6?

Congratulations on the worst post in this thread.

PvP (AKA Open), as it stands now, isn't really about piracy or bounty hunting or anything like that. Sure that goes on but it's a rarity. PvP is simply about ship-to-ship combat. In those instances doesn't it make sense that the adversaries are balanced?

 

[Distance]

PvP (AKA Open), as it stands now, isn't really about piracy or bounty hunting or anything like that. Sure that goes on but it's a rarity. PvP is simply about ship-to-ship combat. In those instances doesn't it make sense that the adversaries are balanced?

Well after 900 hours in open I must have been playing a different game . . .

The main thing missing from ED and the cause of most of the problems are down to the lack of criminal consequences which has been discussed at length since Alpha. Hopefully the Dev diary on this will shed some light on improvements.

 

[Jorlin]

Well after 900 hours in open I must have been playing a different game . . .

The main thing missing from ED and the cause of most of the problems are down to the lack of criminal consequences which has been discussed at length since Alpha. Hopefully the Dev diary on this will shed some light on improvements.

Amen.

Although i wouldn't solve my problems with open play.
But this hurts even solo play.

 

[Major Plonker]

PvP (AKA Open), as it stands now, isn't really about piracy or bounty hunting or anything like that. Sure that goes on but it's a rarity. PvP is simply about ship-to-ship combat. In those instances doesn't it make sense that the adversaries are balanced?

It's just not that kind of game bud, a fair fight will be extremely rare unless it's pre-arranged. PvP in ED is gank or be ganked, fine for those who enjoy that, I personally don't see the attraction of either side of that coin. I enjoy balanced PvP where I get to test my skill against a willing opponent, for that I play games that were built around PvP from the ground up; Battlefield, occasionally Heroes and Generals, I'm currently having a real blast in World of Warships. ED on the other hand, I play PVE (Mobius' group), apart from the odd pre-arranged scrap.

 

[Olrik]

PvP in ED is gank or be ganked, fine for those who enjoy that, I personally don't see the attraction of either side of that coin. I enjoy balanced PvP.

David Braben, many moons ago,

...if someone is killed in a grossly unbalanced battle the victim could just go back to the ‘save position’ and lick their wounds, but the attacker will then have to deal with the consequences of what they just did.