Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Dave1235]

I love these "know it alls" - who think they are the only interpretation of local and international laws and we should all bow to their will.
They fail to understand that ToS and EULA documents are written to be ambiguous on purpose, as it gives companies wiggle room on the interpretation of it.
He also has failed to read the Kickstarter information and DDA on the intent for the game - forcing people into Open mode goes against the way this game was designed and FD will not do it, so it is a pointless argument anyway, but ho hum - it's Friday night and I'm not in the Pub

+1, I was surprised after the "I research" comment.

Just in case anyone one of my often used comments, "not researching a game before buying it is a problem with the buyer, not the game".

Not quite at the "thanks for your donation" stage, but I think it may arrive soon, time will tell.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Still, going into a pve group, purely to attack people that are there to avoid pvp, its just wrong on so many levels.

As is going into open with your router settings changed. Which was the point I was trying to make originally.

They both go against the spirit of the game mode.

 

[fademist]

As is going into open with your router settings changed. Which was the point I was trying to make originally.

They both go against the spirit of the game mode.

and here is that u admit ur point was the usual... with other words

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

and here is that u admit ur point was the usual... with other words

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Dave1235]

That is the single worst interpretation of a cookie cutter DDOS clause that I've ever seen.

To the rest of the forum, I promise you that there is nothing FD or any publisher can do to anyone for changing their router settings. As a matter of fact, without logging into your router with your admin password, the highest level check that can be performed is a rudimentary network address check to see what translations you are allowing.

To hear some people talk in the forum, FD is producing malware that invades every nook and cranny of your private and/or protected space, and it's simply not the case. I swear, half these posts read like they were written by freshman marketing majors that just learned about FUD.

ROFLPMSL, hang on a sec..... sorry, 1 minute, I need to put my serious face on, nearly there, ok I got it, well almost.

Are you sure?, I thought that grey area in the EULA gave FD the right to break down my door and smash my router to bits if its not working how they want it to.

Someone said that FD were working with the NSA and GCHQ to track down CMDR's with router issues, apparently 93 people have been "swatted" in Tunbridge wells due to ISP issues too, to think I believed that, silly me.

Thanks for confirming I can change my router settings, I was worried I would get banned, I never thought "changeme" was a great password but I didn't want take a risk on being banned from the game over something that silly, I mean if that's how my ISP sets it up it must be OK.

- - - Updated - - -

Shhhh, the know it all kid hasn't questioned my legal creds yet. This could get really entertaining.

Your right your honour, how was it in chambers today?, nice silk, suites you sir , o7

 

[xkjacob]

4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature.

This is all hypothetical as I have no understanding of how to, nor need to do it, I just want to understand your opinion.

I will preface this with (apart from a couple of days in beta) I have not had any serious network issues in nearly a year, which is lucky as I have read some of the posts advising people to try "port forwarding" etc and I didn't understand it at all.

Now Imagine I am a new player, my mate set up the router for me and I start playing but can't see other players in open.

damage - I hope not, if a "badly set up / old router" can do this FD have bigger problems
disable - I hope not, if a "badly set up / old router" can do this FD have bigger problems
impair - I hope not, if a "badly set up / old router" can do this FD have bigger problems
overburden - I hope not, if a "badly set up / old router" can do this FD have bigger problems & Amazon too
compromise our systems or security - I hope not, if a "badly set up / old router" can do this FD have bigger problems

or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature

Can someone you don't see interfere any more than another open player in another instance? or mode?, I don't think so. "or any Online Feature", the game is 100% online, solo, groups & open are all online, unless solo & groups are also considered interfering with someone in open in the EULA then it doesn't make sense to me in your context.

Eta in your context.

We are of course assuming FD isn't terrified of class action lawsuits and their player base coming after them at the slightest hint of disappointment.

Your friend who doesn't know that oops! He blocks people doesn't have the intent to qualify for 3c. With the 4 section they would need to add a qualification for bad connection and either 1. Track spotty connection behavior for abuse or 2. Force them into solo play.

Let me give you an example of what you can do with p2p blocking.
You interdict me and 3 of your friends pop in. I block your three friends connection, making it 1v1. I kill you, unblock one of your friends making it 1v1 and kill him, so on and so fourth. You can control the encounter by blocking different people. This would be the sort of behavior to track, if at all possible.

I think where people think the witch hunt is that "I have a router and I'm exploiting". Well no.
It is more about tracking behavior and watching for those scenarios or admiting we can't track scenarios, working with people to improve their connections and in worst case scenarios, for performance limiting their multiplayer exposure in the most immersive method possible.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Let me give you an example of what you can do with p2p blocking.

Except, it doesn't work that way - at least from my testing before release - and this could very well have changed since then so I make no guarantees about it.

If you blocked one player in a instance, and they could still contact the others in their instance, who could in turn contact you - the instance owner kicked you out as your connection "wellness" was below that of everyone else. It happened fairly quickly. If you blocked Ieveryone else in that instance, the "wellness" took a bit more time to be calculated as the instance owner went through multiple retries to work out just what on earth was going on, and eventually abandoned ownership of the "unwell" connection. Your instance was then free to broadcast itself as instance owner and "well", so you'd get new, unblocked, players joining as all their respective instances merged.

It wasn't as simple as "find IP of player and block it" if you wanted to continue playing seamlessly.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

As is going into open with your router settings changed. Which was the point I was trying to make originally.

They both go against the spirit of the game mode.

Actually it's not. It's called solo. There isn't a single difference between open with p2p connects snipped than simply playing in solo.

Other commanders can't see you. Check
You can't see other commanders. Check

Now if, and it's a big if, at some future date there a missions and content only available in open, then you might have a point. Until then, it's just solo in absolutely every respect.

 

[Dave1235]

I noticed you quoted me as saying "unintelligent background noise" and I didn't say that, nor do I feel that way.
You are right, I was mistaken in reading that powerplay will release different modes for open, group and solo.
Anything else?

Oh Im sorry, my mistake I apologise, err no I take that back.

I will leave it up to your personal intelligence to figure out why all modes being equal makes for poor game play..

PM FD & tell them, they designed the game so all modes were equal, bloody idiots, how dare they do that in their own game, scandalous.

background noise of group / solo play[/B] from determining events like our current model allows.

There's the background noise bit, in my culture its rude to ask someone to do something for you that you can do yourself, asking me to quote your posts from just an hour ago is the height of laziness.

Anything else?

Eta, I have no issue with you being mistaken, that's human, stating it as a fact is a different matter.

 

[xkjacob]

Except, it doesn't work that way - at least from my testing before release - and this could very well have changed since then so I make no guarantees about it.

If you blocked one player in a instance, and they could still contact the others in their instance, who could in turn contact you - the instance owner kicked you out as your connection "wellness" was below that of everyone else. It happened fairly quickly. If you blocked Ieveryone else in that instance, the "wellness" took a bit more time to be calculated as the instance owner went through multiple retries to work out just what on earth was going on, and eventually abandoned ownership of the "unwell" connection. Your instance was then free to broadcast itself as instance owner and "well", so you'd get new, unblocked, players joining as all their respective instances merged.

It wasn't as simple as "find IP of player and block it" if you wanted to continue playing seamlessly.

I would rather not participate in this activity.
And they delete my posts that link to sites that are on the right track.

I'm thinking the guy stores the incoming IPs prpvided by STUN blacklists them, then white lists one and uses STUN to bring one IP into his instance.
Lil bit harder than just using a black list or white list it appears.

 

[Dave1235]

5 minute setup using Zone Alarm.
Maybe 10 minutes with an older - pain in the backside router.

And as a last resort, there are some trustworthy folks on the forums who could remote do it for you if you wanted, then you just have to toggle on/off and the settings will kick in.
Also, if your friends use static IPs - they can be added to the whitelist, so even when you're set to block you can still see friends.

Open ED_post_launch.doc, ctrl C, ctrl V, save as doomsday version. o7.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I would rather not participate in this activity.

Agreed. It was fair game during testing, but not something I'd ever do in a released game - no matter what certain people believe.
And they delete my posts that link to sites that are on the right track.

I'm thinking the guy stores the incoming IPs prpvided by STUN blacklists them, then white lists one and uses STUN to bring one IP into his instance. Lil bit harder than just using a black list or white list it appears.

No need to even do that, but I'm not going to talk about such things.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Actually it's not. It's called solo. There isn't a single difference between open with p2p connects snipped than simply playing in solo.

Other commanders can't see you. Check
You can't see other commanders. Check

Now if, and it's a big if, at some future date there a missions and content only available in open, then you might have a point. Until then, it's just solo in absolutely every respect.

I had suggested an open only mission. Which was how that whole analogy came into being. I made the suggestion, someone else said they'd bypass it, I compared it to crashing mobius pve.

 

[Dave1235]

<snip>I asked where the enforceability for shadowban came from.
Y'all are having a hay day of saying the EULA isn't enforceable, but this shadowban seems to work fine. I wanted you understanding of why it works. Surely your friend with his legal credentials can inform us of how it is enforceable.

A shadowban does not stop a person playing the game, did FD ever promise that you would be able to play in any mode you want, at any time?.

If you have a service level agreement with them that states you will have 100% connectivity to any mode you chose, which I guess no one does, then they can still play the game, and lets not forget FD won't be handing them out because you didn't buy a ship skin this month, shadow bans will most likely be "well earned". This is the 21st century, they wont give them away for free

 

[xkjacob]

A shadowban does not stop a person playing the game, did FD ever promise that you would be able to play in any mode you want, at any time?.

If you have a service level agreement with them that states you will have 100% connectivity to any mode you chose, which I guess no one does, then they can still play the game, and lets not forget FD won't be handing them out because you didn't buy a ship skin this month, shadow bans will most likely be "well earned". This is the 21st century, they wont give them away for free

You're a lil behind! Check my last response, you actually agree with me.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

It will matter if there was an open only mission, like I suggested.

That sounds like a bridge that hasn't even been built, and we don't even know if it will be built. I realize that you're partial to it, being your idea and all, but we have zero indications that open only content is ever coming. So, that said, it's really premature to waste time discussing how we're going to cross it.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

That sounds like a bridge that hasn't even been built, and we don't even know if it will be built. I realize that you're partial to it, being your idea and all, but we have zero indications that open only content is ever coming. So, that said, it's really premature to waste time discussing how we're going to cross it.

Are you new to the Internet? Forums are 20% complaining about the things in the game, and 30% complaining about things that aren't in the game and 50% complaining about the complaining.

 

[xkjacob]

Are you new to the Internet? Forums are 20% complaining about the things in the game, and 30% complaining about things that aren't in the game and 50% complaining about the complaining.

Dude his job makes him wear silk 19th century attire and wear a wig.
He is definitrly aware of the internet.

 

[fademist]

That sounds like a bridge that hasn't even been built, and we don't even know if it will be built. I realize that you're partial to it, being your idea and all, but we have zero indications that open only content is ever coming. So, that said, it's really premature to waste time discussing how we're going to cross it.

maybe it comes but wouldn't be good idea from FD side imo

 

[Dave1235]

The worst part is, I know what he/she is getting at - this is just a new angle on an old argument in this very thread.
Must admit though, I'm enjoying the distraction and new ways of phrasing the old points

I enjoy the discussion, I learn a lot from this forum, unfortunately I still do not see what he/she is getting at, to be fair though the last few months in solo and groups might well have taken their toll on my IQ .

he/she mentioned being born into the games industry, and said was big into research before buying games too, OCD was mentioned also.

If someone born into the gaming industry, with an addiction to research + OCD can't find what this game is about we are all doomed, FD must address this now, lets start a poll, no damn it, its more serious than that, we need an open letter or a COBRA meeting.

It could be a conspiracy to undermine FD, I blame google & the FD forums, they must be suppressing this stuff, damn did I just blow my cover by admitting I know some facts here, I am sleeping in the bunker tonight just in case.