Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[aeshec]

When something is fully cooked, its been dead for a long time. I suggest you eat it!!!

I doubt the Mods will close it as, like a weed, it will pop up elsewhere.

There's nothing that tasty in this thread otherwise I would totally chomp it.

Yeah mods probably won't close although there is nothing else that can really come of it or any contribution to it. Therefore I deem thee (this thread) the official Frankenstein thread. May you be dead in your living even though you're dead and you have no consequence to anything etc.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

As it is, Elite's design of "offline / online switch on demand" is HORRIBLE.

By wanting to cater to "all types of players" FD isn't really catering to anyone.

It's not a good PvP game, it's not a good PvE game, it's not a good single player game.

Overal, by design, every aspect of this game is lackluster because essential mechanics for said game modes are dumbed down (bounties) or simply are just not there (i.e. full loot for PvPers).

 

[Gorodd]

IMHO this entire thread discussion is about ED getting our input on the pros/cons of OPEN PLAY vs PRIVATE vs SOLO...I think they are after any additional insights from the user base on what will make ED more palatable to the PVP player base and yet be acceptable to the PVE player base. An improved game balance if you like.

I had a shot at this (based on my own opinions/speculations) on what I see as the different options (I.e. force open play on players as one option) and their pros/cons. Would be great if each person contributing to this thread could do something along similar lines expressing their insights?

Link to pros/cons on various options posted earlier in this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90583&p=1567506&viewfull=1#post1567506

 

[Traven Mayhem]

As it is, Elite's design of "offline / online switch on demand" is HORRIBLE.

By wanting to cater to "all types of players" FD isn't really catering to anyone.

It's not a good PvP game, it's not a good PvE game, it's not a good single player game.

Overal, by design, every aspect of this game is lackluster because essential mechanics for said game modes are dumbed down (bounties) or simply are just not there (i.e. full loot for PvPers).

This guy nailed it -- head on.

 

[Joe Spivey]

As it is, Elite's design of "offline / online switch on demand" is new and innovative and working exactly as designed.

By wanting to cater to "all types of players" FD is bringing in all types of players who are tired of being just fish in a barrel for a particular sub-set of players.

It's not a good PvP game, but then it was never meant as a PvP game. It's not just a PvE game, it's more of a player co-op game against the background simulation. It is also a very good single player game.

Overall, by design, every aspect of this game is as designed by a team who knew what they wanted to create and does not follow the 'same ole same old' mechanics of earlier games.

There ya go, went ahead and fixed that for you.

 

[Azulkb]

As it is, Elite's design of "offline / online switch on demand" is HORRIBLE.

By wanting to cater to "all types of players" FD isn't really catering to anyone.

It's not a good PvP game, it's not a good PvE game, it's not a good single player game.

Overal, by design, every aspect of this game is lackluster because essential mechanics for said game modes are dumbed down (bounties) or simply are just not there (i.e. full loot for PvPers).

for me PvPers are in instance , 2 players want pvp. In open, often, reality is one want pvp (attacker) and one not want : the victim.
That why ED have 3 mode. because all players are differents and some hate pvp. my goal is exploration, and i trade for buy module and explore. if i want social, i perhaps a day explore with someone, and in future patch features we can for exemple, share data, share fuel , etc... a game can offer fun without killing. and i wait for features like this. in mobius groupe. so essential mechanics for you is not essential for all.

other mmo with pvp : not death penalty in pvp. here, victim can lost 10h in one round. rarely the attacker, because attacker can kill with no cargo and cheap ship.
often i read in this forum "elite is dangerous" is the fun is the game. easy to say when you lost 100k when you explose, not easy for victim when he lost 5000k.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Well, lets be honest. David Braben may be a cool guy and all. But lets assume for a moment he is building a game for other people and he doesn't necessarily know what other people want. Lets also assume what is fun for David Braben isn't fun for everyone. Lets also assume David Braben can be wrong. Now, I think we can continue.

Well of course, you won't find any Game that anybody likes, its impossible to do.

All a Designer/Dev/whatever can do is something he belives in, something he can look at and say "Yep, I think thats great". Not anybody will agree and like every Human he can make a mistake but that dosn't mean its wrong to do what you believe in.

Quite the opposite, this is exactly what Devs should do. When you put together a Game you don't like yourself und you don't believe in it will probably not be that good.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

There ya go, went ahead and fixed that for you.

Okay. I'll bite. You claim that it's a "co-op game against the background simulation".

The background simulation is known to be VERY LACKLUSTER. Tons of topics out there that cover this matter.

But let me ask you about this co-op game you're playing: how do I co-op with friends ? We can't do ANYTHING together, we're not even being put by the servers IN THE SAME INSTANCE.

And you claim this is a 'co-op' game.... Good riddance.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Okay. I'll bite. You claim that it's a "co-op game against the background simulation".

The background simulation is known to be VERY LACKLUSTER. Tons of topics out there that cover this matter.

But let me ask you about this co-op game you're playing: how do I co-op with friends ? We can't do ANYTHING together, we're not even being put by the servers IN THE SAME INSTANCE.

And you claim this is a 'co-op' game.... Good riddance.

Lugh - Pilot holding up Billboard at the Sun for all incoming players "SUPPORT CSG" whilst coordinating on getting their selected base of operations pulled out of the Federation. Bang goes your whole argument, unless you are just talking about PvP combat.

The design of the game, as advertised, was a game where player interaction was meaningful. It has been acknowledged that certain features are 'on their way' and as such more coop is and has always been on the board.

The whole instancing thing should convince you that this was not meant to be a massive PVP arena. If you are having problems with instancing there are two things you can do - Friends list and Groups mode, both increase the likelihood of your friend appearing in the same instance, though it is no guarantee as it depends on your geographical region and the capabilities of your routers/PCs.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

The thing is 'was not meant to be a massive PVP arena' does not equal 'was not meant to be a pvp arena'.

I think most PVPers in this game would be perfectly happy with being able to have 16v16 (or hopefully 32v32) matches some day. Just because they aren't aiming to support 1000v1000 doesn't mean PVP mechanics should not be encouraged. Personally I envision taking out 2-3 wings of 4 man squads working together. If we can overcome the 'getting into the same instance' problems, that could lead to some seriously epic fights.

As is however 2 players can't even successfully chase a pirate who ganked their friend one or two systems without them winding up in seperate instances, in empty systems .. and even if we do catch up to him/wind up in the same instance, he can just logoff, relog in solo and be on his merry way -- this is broken and doesn't make for fun long term gameplay for anybody

 

[Cpt.Badger]

The whole instancing thing should convince you that this was not meant to be a massive PVP arena. If you are having problems with instancing there are two things you can do - Friends list and Groups mode, both increase the likelihood of your friend appearing in the same instance, though it is no guarantee as it depends on your geographical region and the capabilities of your routers/PCs.

Wow. Just wow. The amount of FD's apologetics is astounding.

Seriously... "increased chance". No, there is NO increased chance. I've tried a GROUP ONLY game with my friend. He was nowhere to be found.

Can you at least admit, that co-op in this game is IMPOSSIBLE for some people ? What about chat ? Why can't I even freaking CHAT TO MY FRIEND while I'm ingame ?

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

The thing is 'was not meant to be a massive PVP arena' does not equal 'was not meant to be a pvp arena'.

I think most PVPers in this game would be perfectly happy with being able to have 16v16 (or hopefully 32v32) matches some day. Just because they aren't aiming to support 1000v1000 doesn't mean PVP mechanics should not be encouraged. Personally I envision taking out 2-3 wings of 4 man squads working together. If we can overcome the 'getting into the same instance' problems, that could lead to some seriously epic fights.

Can be done. That's what Groups was specifically designed for. Go for it.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Okay. I'll bite. You claim that it's a "co-op game against the background simulation".

The background simulation is known to be VERY LACKLUSTER. Tons of topics out there that cover this matter.

But let me ask you about this co-op game you're playing: how do I co-op with friends ? We can't do ANYTHING together, we're not even being put by the servers IN THE SAME INSTANCE.

And you claim this is a 'co-op' game.... Good riddance.

Currently it is very patchy I grant you but players ARE managing to get together to play together and, i assume, to work together. This whole area is being worked on at the moment with improvements due both in v1.1 and, of course, in v1.2 when wings come in. Connectivity between players is also ongoing with background work.

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Wow. Just wow. The amount of FD's apologetics is astounding.

Seriously... "increased chance". No, there is NO increased chance. I've tried a GROUP ONLY game with my friend. He was nowhere to be found.

Can you at least admit, that co-op in this game is IMPOSSIBLE for some people ? What about chat ? Why can't I even freaking CHAT TO MY FRIEND while I'm ingame ?

Chat IS limited to a very local are, but this is by design. Players are not meant to be able to chat across the whole area of inhabited systems. Please see Dev posts for confirmation.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Currently it is very patchy I grant you but players ARE managing to get together to play together and, i assume, to work together. This whole area is being worked on at the moment with improvements due both in v1.1 and, of course, in v1.2 when wings come in. Connectivity between players is also ongoing with background work.

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Chat IS limited to a very local are, but this is by design. Players are not meant to be able to chat across the whole area of inhabited systems. Please see Dev posts for confirmation.

What he says ^^^

Apologetics? No, just saying it how I see it, like you are a FDev Attacker? Right? Wrong. Go have a nice cup of tea and calm down. The name calling thing is sooo 8 years old...

 

[Sorus]

Well Im very much in the camp of it open play, but saying that I like many others play solo/ private group for the simple reason that if your doing trading missions in any type of hauling ship
you really arent ever going to be combat ready the way these ships are set out, and theres nothing to be gained by playing in open and trading. So this leaves the pirates in open play with less
easy prey for piracy, and easy prey with rich pickings is what a pirate wants.

What I always thought would have been best is different save positons for each, but having played the game I see the benefits of how it is laid out now, especially as the game progresses, it could be
very hard in the future for new players to get a foothold if they couldnt switch out of online play and get some creds and experience so my mind is fully changed on that one. That said having more than 1
pilot ,cash shop purchas maybe?, would be an awesome option.

Therefore something needs to be done to incentivise players into the riskier open play without making the soloers feel like theyre being penalized, quite frankly a hard one and the only options I can see is
incresed payout for the trades, which would imbalance things therefore not an option, or maybe boosting the defensive capabilities of hauling ships so theyre not such easy prey, or maybe some level of cargo insurance.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Incentive for Open Play?

Race to Elite anyone? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76535&_ga=1.10282613.1320106035.1414497526

 

[Cpt.Badger]

What about "background simulation". Also 'very patchy' and 'being worked on' right ? Is there any system in this game that isn't a complete placeholder ?

- NPCs ? Nope. Completely meaningless.
- Background simulation ? Mostly does not work, and what does is completely meaningless (again, tons of threads about this)
- Trade routes ? Non functional.
- Co-op ? Not even possible due to bugs / design.
- Exploration ? Don't even get me started on the abysmal amount of actual 3D assets this game launched with. After you've seen 10 systems - you've pretty much seen it all.

 

[lilikin]

For me I like the current system its pretty good.

I like Solo when the internet connection is a little less juicy
I like Open for most everything else
Groups are good for people who want to PVE together which is great.

I do think though that Open does need to have advantages so people will want to be in it when they are less than ready for PVP. or dramatically increase the skill of NPC pirates so there is actually more risk in Solo

 

[Cpt.Badger]

Chat IS limited to a very local are, but this is by design. Players are not meant to be able to chat across the whole area of inhabited systems. Please see Dev posts for confirmation.

Again, complete .

The chat is BUGGED.

Messages from my friend to me - always come through.
Messages from me to my friend - SOMETIMES come through (mostly not).

But please keep wearing your pink glasses. I'd rather wear those that do not distort reality.

 

[Leopold Zgierz]

The only problem I've got is that the game was advertised as an MMO. I've bought it, my friend has bought it and we tried to "run some missions together". It has not even crossed our mind to check if this mechanic is implemented in a fully released MMO in 2015. This is hilarious. There was not a single MMO that I know of that this would not be a feature after release. Right now we have to go back to EVE and Archeage to actually be able to do anything on coop. You know, the real , working coop, where we can actually see each others enemy, shoot/kill it and share profits via game mechanics. Not some imaginary coop.