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My complaint is, exactly, that if people trade Solo, there will be less PvP targets for pirates, and this ruins the game.
If traders want to avoid *idiots* or *psychos*, just look for a safer route! It will be difficult for pirates to find them, but this is more honest than just turn off PvP. I think it's just a coward move to switch to Solo mode to avoid other PvP players. What if NPC Pirates were really tough to beat then? People would have quit the game? I don't believe so. They play Solo just because the NPC pirates suck.

I beg to differ. I am not a coward. I just don't have the hardware to handle open. Please refrain from from making insinuation on my character or I will have to come over there and slap you with a Leathery Egg. :p

Some people play Solo just because the PKers in Open suck... big time. ;) Safer routes in open is an option. But once you've met one snotty nosed "cause I can" kid, the will to chance meeting another is slim to none.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
My complaint is, exactly, that if people trade Solo, there will be less PvP targets for pirates, and this ruins the game.
If traders want to avoid *idiots* or *psychos*, just look for a safer route! It will be difficult for pirates to find them, but this is more honest than just turn off PvP. I think it's just a coward move to switch to Solo mode to avoid other PvP players. What if NPC Pirates were really tough to beat then? People would have quit the game? I don't believe so. They play Solo just because the NPC pirates suck.

Players have no requirement to offer themselves up as targets for other players. We all paid for the game and are told by Frontier to "play the game how you want to" - those who do not wish to play with other players have that choice. The fact that less combative players exercising that choice may mean that there are fewer players in open might suggest that non-consensual PvP is not as popular as some players hope it to be.

.... then you bring "honest" and "coward" into the discussion. :rolleyes: Players play in different play modes for many reasons - and they have no requirement to justify those reasons.
 
I trade in Open and have never been interdicted by a single PvP pirate. Just find a safe place to trade.

This ^^^. The concepts of Solo being safe, Open being risky and reward being commensurate with risk are all demonstrably fallacious. While it is true that Open play contains the human player element, the actual risk of PvP is minimal once you are outside of the core systems. Minimal because there is only a very small chance that you will meet another player and even if you do, the chance that it will be someone who wants to PvP is even smaller. Total risk factor, therefore, negligible. Solo is not so safe either, according to FD. The devs have said that the NPCs in Solo are or can be 'beefed up' precisely to avoid Solo being considered 'safe'. I don't know about beefed up because my experience in Solo is small. All I do know is that I am attacked more often by NPCs in Solo than I am in Open. As for the risk/reward thing? I have just explained how the, so called, risk amounts to hardly anything. So what about the reward? Ok then, please explain how someone makes more cr in Open than they do in Solo and how this extra reward is related to any perceived 'risk'?
 
Completely agree. Frontier made pirating one of the safest professions in the game, so it also needs to be one of the worse paying professions.

Yeah, I know it's bonkers. In a typical game trading is the safest profession and combat ones are riskier. ED is not a typical game.

Quite. Piracy is largely risk-free and cost-free. The most 'danger' you face is your mark might escape (which seems why shield cells need 'nerfing' apparently).

Make it as costly and risky as trading then and only then can we talk about making it as profitable.

But that's not what people seem to want. They just want to be able to kill freighters quicker and easier.
 
I've changed my mind completely on adding an extra incentive for Open play (such as an increased monetary reward).

I think we should instead:


  • Have much higher fines for murdering CLEAN players
    • Pirate murders trader. > Pirate get's 5k fine. > Trader loses potentially MILLIONS. > Trader grudgingly goes to solo.
  • Have trade insurance for traders (this is rumored already I think..?)

This way, solo is not at a disadvantage, and Open play is more appealing for all types of players.

Your idea reduces the risk for traders playing in open but it is still more risky that solo, so why would they bother?
 
The issue though is not piracy, Picommander.

Many traders would actually be happy with Piracy. But what they are seeing is not piracy, they are seeing PKers, sometimes pretending to be Pirates, or very badly skilled pirates who think that "Frameshift Charge Detected" = "Unleash the dogs of war" and unleashing their ultra-mega-death ray/torpedoes that they purchased with all that money they made from trading in rares a few days ago.

Nothing to do with risk/reward. If we have real pirates and be done with the 'kills for Lulz' then solo would only be populated with the likes of me who can't do open for technical reasons (and those who never wanted anything other than offline in the first place.)
 
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I'm afraid you still don't get it and the traders you refer to neither. In a galaxy of such vastness you just can't simply ensure balance by numbers because most traders that are able to put one and one together would avoid the main traffic routes. And here is where the piracy will happen: Good pirates will concentrate on the well known "efficient" trade lines. That is where the whole beauty of Elite shines: All the greedy folks who are coming from other modern MMOs with the attitude where only efficiency counts will be the preferred prey of these pirates. In other words, they get what they deserve or get what they choose: risk vs reward.

The only problematic part in this wonderful concept is the solo mode. My solution to this would be to track the actual piracy activities in open (by simple statistics) and translate these to solo mode, where the most efficient (and hopefully pirates infested!) routes will be synchronously filled with comparably dangerous NPC pirates. The tricky part for the devs will be to find a balance between PC and NPC pirates. If better AI won't work or being impossible then through harder weapons and/or higher level ships or even by sheer numbers of NPC pirates. ***

That would be my preferred way to a decent risk vs reward concept without the possibility of a risk free chicken out to solo. This even could revalue the solo mode as no one could seriously call out solo as the <carry-my-beer-mode> anymore.

*** This process could even be automated. Here's a simplified example to illustrate the idea:

Let's assume there are 10 different NPC ships on a difficulty scale of 1 to 10 from easy to hard. Then let us take a certain system were PC-piracy occurred and acceded a certain threshold, let's say 5 times in 3 days. The server could then generate a higher class of NPC-pirates on the solo version of this system and track the result. If after 3 days the sum of killed trader ships are still below that of the system in open (and assuming the statistics haven't changed here, just to keep it simple for our example) the next generation of NPC pirates would be generated. If the system was set on difficulty 3 before it's being set to 4 now and so on, until the system in solo shows the same trader killing rate than its double in open.

The reason not to trade in open is because it is no fun to get randomly blown up by an OP opponent (be it a PC or NPC, who cares) while in a ship like the T6 which can't defend itself. It's boring, you lose too much. It doesn't add any fun factor at all. The risk is simply too high for the reward and hence people don't want to subject themselves to it.
Your solution only pushes the same amounts of "deaths" which occurs in open to solo (deaths must surely count as murder rather than piracy though, but never mind). You add risk to traders while pirates still suffer from no risk what so ever.

Personally I don't like to think of things in terms as risk vs reward, it's not necessary. I like to think of things in challenging gameplay and cooperation = reward. There doesn't even need to be a lot of risk involved, just make it FUN for all parties, including the ones being pirated in a way that rewards more you the better you play. How about instead of adding more risk, you reduce the financial damage caused by PVP deaths to next to nothing instead. I'd like that a whole lot more than additional reward when I'm trading (and I do a bit of everything, not just trading). It would encourage people to PVP too because they have less to lose.

Your suggestion to beef up the NPC's is hard to argue with though. They need some more challenge to them - both pirates and security.
 
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Quite. Piracy is largely risk-free and cost-free. The most 'danger' you face is your mark might escape (which seems why shield cells need 'nerfing' apparently).

Make it as costly and risky as trading then and only then can we talk about making it as profitable.

But that's not what people seem to want. They just want to be able to kill freighters quicker and easier.

I dont think piracy is all that risk or cost free. Why? well because its largely income free. So losing a ship can send you bust.
 
My complaint is, exactly, that if people trade Solo, there will be less PvP targets for pirates, and this ruins the game.
If traders want to avoid *idiots* or *psychos*, just look for a safer route! It will be difficult for pirates to find them, but this is more honest than just turn off PvP. I think it's just a coward move to switch to Solo mode to avoid other PvP players. What if NPC Pirates were really tough to beat then? People would have quit the game? I don't believe so. They play Solo just because the NPC pirates suck.

I can't help it. It just astonishes me how many PVP'ers, think it's there God given right to have the PVE type player base forced into there space, for nothing more than there targets. It's almost like a PVP game doesn't exist in all play, unless non PVP players are forced to get involved for there benifit.
 
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Quite. Piracy is largely risk-free and cost-free. The most 'danger' you face is your mark might escape (which seems why shield cells need 'nerfing' apparently).

Make it as costly and risky as trading then and only then can we talk about making it as profitable.

But that's not what people seem to want. They just want to be able to rob freighters quicker and easier.

Sorry but I just had to correct the little mistake you had made.
 
All you people saying PvP piracy is impossible and unprofitable need to watch Tiggas stream. Either you haven't actually tried it because you are too busy posting on the forums about imaginary problems, or you're just not good at it.
 
I dont think piracy is all that risk or cost free. Why? well because its largely income free. So losing a ship can send you bust.

In comparison to trading. Once you buy your ship, the first few runs are "just about got the insurance" or sometimes you risk not having that insurance. Getting pulled by someone who just wants to see your ship fly apart means having a cargo container and spending the next 2 weeks hauling wheat in the fear that the next shooter will end 6 months of gaming... for lulz.

When you look at it like that, a Pimped Eagle, Sidey or even Viper has a much lower risk attached to it, and a quicker return from nothing.

So you are right, not cost-free, but cost negligent.
 
The issue though is not piracy, Picommander.

Many traders would actually be happy with Piracy. But what they are seeing is not piracy, they are seeing PKers, sometimes pretending to be Pirates, or very badly skilled pirates who think that "Frameshift Charge Detected" = "Unleash the dogs of war" and unleashing their ultra-mega-death ray/torpedoes that they purchased with all that money they made from trading in rares a few days ago.

Nothing to do with risk/reward. If we have real pirates and be done with the 'kills for Lulz' then solo would only be populated with the likes of me who can't do open for technical reasons (and those who never wanted anything other than offline in the first place.)

If you try to escape a pirate then of course the pirate will try to kill you. If the same pirate interdicts you again.... you probably wont fire up that FSD
 
Sorry but I just had to correct the little mistake you had made.

Pirates killing their marks is not by any means unknown.

And please - let's not have a 'No True Scotsman' response. The fact remains playing pirate is the easiest thing to do in this game. It's shooting fish in a barrel and the only skill needed is stopping your defenseless mark getting away.
 
Pirates killing their marks is not by any means unknown.

And please - let's not have a 'No True Scotsman' response. The assertion remains playing pirate is the easiest thing to do in this game. It's shooting fish in a barrel and the only skill needed is stopping your defenseless mark getting away.

Again, sorry. You do have a habit of making these "freudian slips" don't you.
 
If you try to escape a pirate then of course the pirate will try to kill you. If the same pirate interdicts you again.... you probably wont fire up that FSD

Rule 101 in piracy: Don't poop in your feeding bowl.

Destroy a ship, you get a bigger bounty. Bring his hull down to teach him a lesson, maybe. If you murder, the Mark next time would rather Self-Destruct since you are going to kill them anyway and not give you the pleasure. Killing is not good for piracy.

Unless you haven't go the skill or self-control to stop firing that death-beam... :p

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Again, sorry. You do have a habit of making these "freudian slips" don't you.

You who?
 
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I can't help it. It just astonishes me how many PVP'ers, think it's there God given right to have the PVE type player base forced into there space, for nothing more than there targets. It's almost like a PVP game doesn't exist in all play, unless non PVP players are forced to get involved, to be there targets.

Yes that's a fair point. I think if people only want to ever play solo then that is their right. However, I do think that those who choose to play open should be rewarded for it. Not just traders but pirates, miners, explorers and bounty hunters to. IMO they should earn double. Solo players should not care since it wont affect then in any way that I can see.
 
Its just plain stupid to have the solo and the online achievements/credits/"call it whatever" within the same save. Its two different things, which needs two different savegames, whereas the online one is obviously stored online and the solo one is stored on the client (or also online).
Solo + private groups can share the same save.

There is nothing more to add. Thread can be closed now.
 
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