Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Now this is strange. Are you really in this discussion not because you want to defend a position, but instead because you are somehow bothered by the reasons given by players that defend solo (and the free switching between modes) for their points of view?

And, to boot, you seem to not be able, or willing, to understand that player conflict isn't fun or engaging for all players. Heck, I believe most players don't find it truly engaging. If for someone "threats from other players" are merely annoyances, without adding anything positive to the game, you can bet that person will try to "escape" from them, just like any sane person will try to "escape" from other real life annoyances. And, just like people don't fear a ketchup stain or a remote control battery going flat, it's not fear driving this choice.

BTW: video games have no risk. You want a hobby with risks, you might want to do rappelling, spelunking, one or two martial arts, etc; those at least have some risk, enough to give me a small thrill at least. Cozily sitting in a chair, in front of your computer, from the comfort of your home? This has no risk at all, regardless of what the game attempts to do. (Well, perhaps with the exception of games where you somehow bet real money, but I don't think ED wants to go there.)

Dude, dont talk to me about risk like i am some armchair forum samurai. You don't know me and i don't know you, you are just a name on a page that doesn't seem to correctly read my posts like most other people don't seem to. As for risk and people's personal lives, i wont comment on any perceived lack of 'risk' that may or may not be present in your life, but as for me i served 13 years in the British army as a reconnaissance soldier, and completed 3 frontline tours of Iraq and 2 frontline tours of Afghanistan. So i don't think its unfair to say i know a hell of a lot about risk, and not the 'risk' associated with hobbies.

In response to your post, i am defending the position that no matter how people dress it up, the most probable reason so many people play solo is to hide from pvp with other players. I haven't once said i don't understand the various enjoyment levels of players for pvp. I understand it completely, and in fact respect it, if they themselves admit it. What i don't respect is people taking umbrage at someone saying they are hiding/escaping/avoiding or any other term banned or not banned from this forum, when that is exactly what they are doing, whatever label they wish to use personally. As you say, people will escape things they find annoying, and as it stands in this game right now, understandably. I get that a lot of people find pvp annoying especially as the manner of the pvp is usually not on terms of their choosing, be that their own fault or not its easier just to avoid.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Honestly, i could cut and paste all your responses on this thread into one post and it would read like a religious text, repeating dogma over and over. Yet you never offer any real input or opinion of your own as per a real discussion, you just seem to try and pick holes in people's choice of words like you are some kind of referee.

As could the complaints about the contentious game features. There's no real need to offer an opinion when Frontier have already stated their case rather succinctly by including those features in the game. .... and no, not a referee - just an interested party taking part in the discussion.

- Yes people are playing the game happily. Myself included. I am just not reading the forums happily. While i applaud FD for instilling a overwhelming sense of decency to these forums and the dedication of the actual moderators, i sometimes feel that as a result, there is an over the top obsessions with trying to find something worth taking offense (not you, but others) at any strong opinion that opposes others. Such as me saying that i thought the main reason people play solo is to hide from pvp players, and some guy likening it to Hitler and the holocaust. Why don't you go reply to that guy Robert? Because ihs opinion mirrors yours? Yet when anyone so much as mentions anything you don't approve of about solo mode, you drop the standard party lines about peoples freedom of choice and your usual 3 quotes of comment boxes with replies, trying to covertly play down or belittle people's opinions, without yourself offering any real discussion points.

The forums would be a very different place if everyone agreed about everything.

Not getting involved in a post which takes a discussion about a game and makes a hyperbolic comparison to RL events is simply avoiding the extremities of the forums - not everyone likes to partake in such trivialisations of historical record.

It's more that those who seek to change the features under discussion would, if successful, change the way that others could choose to play the game. Seeking to remove choices for every player to suit the agenda of a subset of the player-base is rather selfish.

The usual quotes are due to people repeatedly asking for the same information - it's as if some don't read the thread.... Quoting the developers is hardly belittling - making someone aware of posts / links / etc. relating to the development and design of the game that they were previously unaware of is seeking to show that person that statements have been made which describe the developers' intentions for the game.

 

[Ghostickles]

I don't know why all the controversy.
Ive killed players in Open, Ive died there too, plenty of CMDRS will stick out a fight.
So what if a few arent 'in the PvP mood right now', sorry mates, we have to get over this.
Games are played for fun, and that means everyone, not just honest sociopaths, not just care bears.
Accept the three game modes as middle ground please.

 

[ermtony]

I like that groups are already forming and trying to collectively change systems, some are even entering into the spirit of things and doing the whole roleplay thing again good. But all the while those that want to do their own thing are doing precisely that but still adding to the background.

If I may chip in here (having no real axe to grind in the whole debate, but I am enjoying reading it), I am coming to the conclusion that this is the real core of the game. The fighting, trading, mining, exploring etc. are the top layer of the game. The meat is in the player influenced economics and politics. E : D makes us all small pawns in a bigger picture and I am really enjoying being involved in that. It's long term but the great thing is that any of the top layer play styles and modes contribute to that development. And of course any of the pawns may reach the far side of the board and pick up a crown.

Something to think about anyway.

 

[Dave1235]

In another thread i was more overbearing and had a certain view of how solo and open should be, but that has changed, through the power of discussion, and hearing other peoples views and opinions.

We may not agree in general but I just +1 repped you for the above.

I don't know the exact posts or threads that you refer to, in this thread I have read every post (I don't recall any of yours really sticking in my mind because (to me) they were "overbearing"), in some other threads I have missed many posts (good idea for mods to make 1 place for this discussion IMO), if you really think you were "overbearing" as you say then at least you are aware of it & can avoid if you so wish in future.

I think its great that having that discussion changed your opinion, I don't know what it was before and exactly where it is now, but its irrelevant really, but the fact you thought about it, considered it and revised your opinion after, on the basis of what you learnt from the discussion earns you that rep sir, and I really hope that don't sound condescending, it is genuine, some people tend to not waver in the face of facts or logic.

I think that actually (for me) this makes the time I have spent here in this thread think it was worthwhile, I am sure nothing I have said changed your mind, but the fact that good honest discussion did it suggests to me there may still be some point to me posting here.

I am still always open to the possibility I may be wrong, DBOBE does not invite me to dinner at his house, my brother / best mate is not a FD dev so I am working with what I have as we all are, based on the dev quotes, dev diary's, the fact that being able to switch modes at will is part of that, the fact that it is part of the game right now and has been for a long time.

We need more content right now, Devs said that mining for example was the bare minimum they would release, it is not the finished product.

I think most people would rather FD put their effort into wings & netcode right now rather than dividing the player base and reversing decisions they have already made about how the game is going to work.

If I had to chose one way to play I would go for PVE group (I am a member of mobius PVE, I visit from time to time), I was playing solo in the week & online at the weekends for no reason other than in the week I have less time and its to chill out after work, on a weekend I have more time, and I don't mind "proper" pirates taxing me a bit. I have looked for it, If I am forced to make a decision I would pick groups I think, I prefer solo and open right now but if I had one choice it would be PVE groups, I am pretty sure if you meet at a combat zone on the opposite side, or agree to have a fight for fun its ok).

Just 1 more player that will never be in open again, I didn't wipe at launch, only have a type 6 & a cobra right now, I want a Viper too, maybe an asp, but I need to "work" to get it, I have not been in a rush as you can tell from my progression, I am enjoying the journey, there is no way I would ever "park" this commander in groups and start again in a sidey with £1k CR so I can play in open too.

 

[ianstrauss]

If singple players wants to just play single player mode, i think thats totally fine. It offers an option to players who doesnt like to meet other people ingame and they can still join groups.

But i hope that the devs remove te ability to switch from single player to open play since this feature negates the effectiveness of other features and greatly affects the core aspects and mechanics of the game.

In my opinion it would be best that whatever progression or cr you gained through single player stays in single player. Open play should give you a totally unique VMDR.


alternatively, you can allow switching until a certain point in a game (ex. If you pass 500k CR disable switching) that way, the feature will be meaningful as it serves like a tutorial to mew player of some sorts.

 

[Alpha November]

Dude, dont talk to me about risk like i am some armchair forum samurai. You don't know me and i don't know you, you are just a name on a page that doesn't seem to correctly read my posts like most other people don't seem to. As for risk and people's personal lives, i wont comment on any perceived lack of 'risk' that may or may not be present in your life, but as for me i served 13 years in the British army as a reconnaissance soldier, and completed 3 frontline tours of Iraq and 2 frontline tours of Afghanistan. So i don't think its unfair to say i know a hell of a lot about risk, and not the 'risk' associated with hobbies.

In response to your post, i am defending the position that no matter how people dress it up, the most probable reason so many people play solo is to hide from pvp with other players. I haven't once said i don't understand the various enjoyment levels of players for pvp. I understand it completely, and in fact respect it, if they themselves admit it. What i don't respect is people taking umbrage at someone saying they are hiding/escaping/avoiding or any other term banned or not banned from this forum, when that is exactly what they are doing, whatever label they wish to use personally. As you say, people will escape things they find annoying, and as it stands in this game right now, understandably. I get that a lot of people find pvp annoying especially as the manner of the pvp is usually not on terms of their choosing, be that their own fault or not its easier just to avoid.

Don't really see that this is relevant, there's probably a lot of squaddies playing ED, I'm one (now civvy). I primarily play solo and group and at no point did I say to myself - I must avoid being attacked. I played solo in this game because that is how I played the other Elite games, I liked the idea of some coop play so I applied to the Mobius grp. I even like playing some open. All I want to do is play the game using the mechanism that FD has provided, one they've been quite open about from the very beginning. Having choice is a good thing. Being forced to be the unwilling cannon-fodder for a bunch of people who paid not one penny more than I did for ED is not my idea of fun especially when the game allows these people to form a PvP group and do what they want in the group whilst allowing everyone else to enjoy the game they paid for. The problem we (on my side) have with you is that you just will not accept the game the way it is even though you presumably paid for it knowing the score. And once again I say to you, it is not going to change. Why don't you organise like minded players, make a group and advertise it on these forums and then have at it, no one is stopping you. This thread is ridiculous.

 

[Dave1235]

Winning an PvP in elite is as much as ing into dark pants, it gives you an warm feeling and nobody notices.

+1 rep for making me lol, and yes if anyone has "won" elite already can they tell me how they did it, I am still expecting to be enjoying it for years to come (with DLC etc) and I want to avoid the "game over, you have won" screen for a while longer thanks (has anyone seen CMDR Thrust from Bradford recently, he might know the answer to that ).

 

[Alpha November]

If singple players wants to just play single player mode, i think thats totally fine. It offers an option to players who doesnt like to meet other people ingame and they can still join groups.

But i hope that the devs remove te ability to switch from single player to open play since this feature negates the effectiveness of other features and greatly affects the core aspects and mechanics of the game.

In my opinion it would be best that whatever progression or cr you gained through single player stays in single player. Open play should give you a totally unique VMDR.


alternatively, you can allow switching until a certain point in a game (ex. If you pass 500k CR disable switching) that way, the feature will be meaningful as it serves like a tutorial to mew player of some sorts.

The devs aren't going to remove anything. I saw someone today go to the trouble of posting in this thread the link from the DDF, online dev discussions and other sources - and even after that you seem unable to accept the obvious.

 

[Raduk]

People, we must stop letting the bullies win. It's a big galaxy; I've played open since Christmas and have never been successfully interdicted by a player.

Come play Open! Pirates are weak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNBczxEyRz0

 

[snotface]

If singple players wants to just play single player mode, i think thats totally fine. It offers an option to players who doesnt like to meet other people ingame and they can still join groups.

But i hope that the devs remove te ability to switch from single player to open play since this feature negates the effectiveness of other features and greatly affects the core aspects and mechanics of the game.

In my opinion it would be best that whatever progression or cr you gained through single player stays in single player. Open play should give you a totally unique VMDR.


alternatively, you can allow switching until a certain point in a game (ex. If you pass 500k CR disable switching) that way, the feature will be meaningful as it serves like a tutorial to mew player of some sorts.

clearly you fail to understand that there is zero effect on the core aspects of the game, unless you are one of the very small number of people who gets self gratification when killing another player in game, and believes that everybody has to be forced to choose to play in open play so they can be either cannon fodder for those who like to get gratification for killing, or just believe, even totally misguided, that people in solo have a huge advantage over people in other modes. This misguided view shows how lies spread through games, next they will say that Solo players get an extra game option which nobody else gets, oh and more money, Mply and other stupid views which are wrong.

FD will never take away Solo mode, they will never stop people from moving from one mode to another. FD know it will in the end cost them more money to change a functional system into a game nobody wants except the 5% of the total player base. Solo brings people to the game, and if you cannot deal with people wanting to switch game modes just so they can avoid others targeting them with, lets just say unwanted attacks, then you have a choice to make. Is this game for you.

If you wish to get your rocks off, as they say, killing other players I have heard there is a game called EVE where you can do that all day. Here we have a higher sense of morality, we give our player base, and friends, a choice to enjoy the game without fear of attack. There are player pirates which enjoy playing thats character, but they still give players a choice, where as a very small number on this forum want this choice removed from everybody. I am glad that I am one of the people who want everybody to have a choice in their game play. Clearly you are one of those players that wants to take away players rights to choose.

shame on you.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

People, we must stop letting the bullies win. It's a big galaxy; I've played open since Christmas and have never been successfully interdicted by a player.

Come play Open! Pirates are weak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNBczxEyRz0

lol have to argy

 

[DarkWalker]

Dude, dont talk to me about risk like i am some armchair forum samurai. You don't know me and i don't know you, you are just a name on a page that doesn't seem to correctly read my posts like most other people don't seem to. As for risk and people's personal lives, i wont comment on any perceived lack of 'risk' that may or may not be present in your life, but as for me i served 13 years in the British army as a reconnaissance soldier, and completed 3 frontline tours of Iraq and 2 frontline tours of Afghanistan. So i don't think its unfair to say i know a hell of a lot about risk, and not the 'risk' associated with hobbies.

In response to your post, i am defending the position that no matter how people dress it up, the most probable reason so many people play solo is to hide from pvp with other players. I haven't once said i don't understand the various enjoyment levels of players for pvp. I understand it completely, and in fact respect it, if they themselves admit it. What i don't respect is people taking umbrage at someone saying they are hiding/escaping/avoiding or any other term banned or not banned from this forum, when that is exactly what they are doing, whatever label they wish to use personally. As you say, people will escape things they find annoying, and as it stands in this game right now, understandably. I get that a lot of people find pvp annoying especially as the manner of the pvp is usually not on terms of their choosing, be that their own fault or not its easier just to avoid.

Then you very likely know how far better than me about real risks, and real fear; while I do have military training, I'm part of my country's engineering reserve corps, so as far as military "action" goes all I did was a year of training.

Though then I still fail to see how you can think most players in solo are "hiding" from the PvP. Like we both said, a computer game has no actual risk. By using "hide" in this context you seem to imply those players fear PvP contact; well, my point of view is that for many, likely most, of the solo players, fear has nothing to do with it, and "hiding" is not the proper word for what they are doing. Rather, they are just choosing to play in the way they enjoy better, avoiding optional content they either dislike or don't feel like playing at that time. This is just a game, after all, and not only it only makes sense to play a game if you get enjoyment out of it, avoiding the parts of the game one dislikes is integral to maximizing the enjoyment.

I do admit my perception of this issue is likely colored by the fact I'm very picky about PvP. For me to enjoy PvP it needs to be reasonably even, where even when going all out I have as much chance of being defeated as of winning. Anything else — in other words, if my chances of winning are either too high or too low — and I don't find it worth playing. As such I see nearly all the PvP in ED as a pure waste of time, with no enjoyment to be had at all (as, for me, is the case of open world PvP inside nearly every MMO, not just ED; the only example of open world PvP in a MMO I can enjoy currently is Planetside 2. All the rest — and I've tried dozens — I could never enjoy.)

 

[Dave1235]

Unless someone can explain to me what I am missing, what is the point of trading in open play?

I love a bit of PvP as well as PvE but when I leave the combat ship I go solo. Why would you risk anything when there is relatively no consequences to just being blown out of the sky?

So for me its combat ship (Open) , trading (Solo).

I agree with your post generally, the choice is what makes it great in a lot of peoples opinion too.

For me when I had a bit more time it was for the chance that another player might get the jump on me & tax me (I still think PKing is quite rare, I may well be wrong, I am not always in open recently), but it made me pay more attention to the radar, it has happened once so far (getting pirated not PK'd) and I was looking for it so I guess I got lucky, the pirate played the role well, I enjoyed the experience, it didn't cost me too much either.

The reason I spent this weekend in solo has nothing to do with it being easier or not having insurance etc, I am not wealthy but I can cover the insurance on my ships several times, even the cargo many times too, I am trading in cheaper stuff as a choice right now, to keep that cash free, for a few upgrades & possibly a viper.

The odds are I will be back in open next weekend, or the one after, in solo during the week (and possibly a bit of mobius PVE in the middle somewhere) but if I am ever forced into making a choice its not likely that it will be "open only", I can't ever see me making a second CMDR for open only (or solo only) mode either.

 

[Antmax]

If singple players wants to just play single player mode, i think thats totally fine. It offers an option to players who doesnt like to meet other people ingame and they can still join groups.

But i hope that the devs remove te ability to switch from single player to open play since this feature negates the effectiveness of other features and greatly affects the core aspects and mechanics of the game.

In my opinion it would be best that whatever progression or cr you gained through single player stays in single player. Open play should give you a totally unique VMDR.

Doesn't make sense to do that since only the background is persistent. Not the local space you play in. If 500 people all descend on the same locale in open mode the most you will meet at once can only be 32. The other 468 will all get past you and be completely invisible. Solo is just the same as open only there can only be one player in an instance. Otherwise it's the same.

PvP was never intended to be taken seriously in this game. Couple of pages ago someone posted various discussions spanning 2 years that make direct reference to this fact.

If you think that PvP is the focus of the game, your playing the wrong game. Your PvP actions will rarely have any impact on the galaxy, and if you attack harmless players it will only impact your wallet. Your Ranking will not go up, you won't collect a bounty because they don't exist, but you will get a bigger bounty on yourself. So you basically get punished for any kind of PvP other than bounty hunting or conflict zones when destroying the opposing side.

 

[Dave1235]

You deprive PvP players the fun of shooting at an slow ship with weak shields and small arms.

PVP only groups were suggested (mobius PVE seems to be working OK, why would it not work for PVP too) but yes I think the lack of sheep was the biggest issue, everyone it would seem wants to be the wolf.

 

[Dragosani]

I believed this game would have given us a choice to play solo or open from the start. Not sure why the question is being raised now as to what you feel the players want......are you looking at the future of maybe binning solo play?

I for one, play both solo and open.....I like the choice to be able to switch off a little in solo (and also when I need to dock at an outpost that is already swarming in open play), and I also like playing in open when I have the inclination....

I think if the game were to force everybody into open play, you'd lose a lot of interest....It takes a lot of effort to get people playing and coming back for more, but only a few bad experiences to put people off - this is more true in gaming now than it ever was in the past.....As people have stated in the last 90 pages - you need to be able to deal with the obvious exploiters and griefers appropriately and quickly if we are to go down the route of open play only......

I like the choice we have, please don't change it.

 

[snotface]

Dude, dont talk to me about risk like i am some armchair forum samurai. You don't know me and i don't know you, you are just a name on a page that doesn't seem to correctly read my posts like most other people don't seem to. As for risk and people's personal lives, i wont comment on any perceived lack of 'risk' that may or may not be present in your life, but as for me i served 13 years in the British army as a reconnaissance soldier, and completed 3 frontline tours of Iraq and 2 frontline tours of Afghanistan. So i don't think its unfair to say i know a hell of a lot about risk, and not the 'risk' associated with hobbies.

In response to your post, i am defending the position that no matter how people dress it up, the most probable reason so many people play solo is to hide from pvp with other players. I haven't once said i don't understand the various enjoyment levels of players for pvp. I understand it completely, and in fact respect it, if they themselves admit it. What i don't respect is people taking umbrage at someone saying they are hiding/escaping/avoiding or any other term banned or not banned from this forum, when that is exactly what they are doing, whatever label they wish to use personally. As you say, people will escape things they find annoying, and as it stands in this game right now, understandably. I get that a lot of people find pvp annoying especially as the manner of the pvp is usually not on terms of their choosing, be that their own fault or not its easier just to avoid.

You are a very brave man and I take my hat off to you. my Son is in the army as well and I am very proud of him for his selfless acts.

I see this forum as a Window Warrior paradise where people shout abuse behind the safety of their own little windows knowing that you or I cannot shout back at them.

It is a shame you have stated what you have because I am totally ashamed of those words. People do not go into Solo to hide, quite a few like myself go there because we want to play the game how it was when we started playing Elite 30 years ago. Others go there as they want to explore, some to trade, and then there are some who find the constant attacks off putting to their game.

In this country our armed forced made sure we had a right to choose, and as a father of a serving British Soldier I am more than proud of this fact. We all have a right to choose, and name calling is something only bullies do. So if you wish to call me names for playing in Solo then that's your true colours, but for me I will stand shoulder to shoulder with everybody in Solo/Grouped so we all get a chance to choose where we play without people trying to bully us into playing the game the way others demand.

 

[Dave1235]

My main annoyance in this thread is simply that people do everything in their power to avoid saying they hide or avoid being attacked by other players in solo mode, its that simple, regardless of the reasoning. Yes its just my opinion, possibly flawed, and based on something i simply find annoying. Nevertheless, i'm still saying it.

Do you think I am a Decent guy on a Friday / Saturday because I am playing in open but not on a Monday / Tuesday when I play solo?

I play the game, as it is now, post launch, to play it how I want to depending on my mood, I researched the game before I bought it, being able to play in different ways is not a surprise to me, its part of the reason I bought it.

 

[LiU-KanG]

solo and group should have no influence towards the backround simulation.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

New player.. Long time MMO and space sim player.

Agree with the above post. Open world should be it's own open world -- solo and closed group should not impact the background simulation, or at least not the same background simulation as Open Play -- this should be a true single world sandbox.

Solo/Group play characters should not be 'shared' with Open Play characters. This would create a true 'online world' that people could have meaningful conflict in on the Open Play Server, while still giving people the option of a rich 'closed/private group' play option.

win/win