Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Lokus Midgard]

It wouldn't prevent ramming, verbal abuse and so on, but games of all different types have had a 'friendly fire' option for years, which is effectively what a 'PVP toggle' would amount to ('friendly' units being identified as anyone who's a human pilot, in that regard). Purely hypothetically, can anyone think of legitimate reasons why this couldn't be implemented as a mechanic?

Obviously, solo mode will continue, regardless (at least, until re-implementation of an off-line mode) due to the potential threat of litigation. I'm just curious as to just how difficult something like that would be to put into the basic game code. It could always auto-off if the ship enters any clearly designated PVP locations.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

It wouldn't prevent ramming, verbal abuse and so on, but games of all different types have had a 'friendly fire' option for years, which is effectively what a 'PVP toggle' would amount to ('friendly' units being identified as anyone who's a human pilot, in that regard). Purely hypothetically, can anyone think of legitimate reasons why this couldn't be implemented as a mechanic?

Obviously, solo mode will continue, regardless (at least, until re-implementation of an off-line mode) due to the potential threat of litigation. I'm just curious as to just how difficult something like that would be to put into the basic game code. It could always auto-off if the ship enters any clearly designated PVP locations.

If it was on a per user basis it would make a mockery of Open. PKer goes and kills a few noobs and then switches the toggle when the Bounty Hunters turn up. Mind you they have combat logging for that now. They would not give them an excuse. Per group could work though...

And as Solo mode caters for low bandwidth situations I doubt it will ever disappear, even if an OffLine mode were to appear. You would just have less people in the online universe.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Sounds to me like the solution here is for Mobius to conduct more thorough background checks of their applicants. AWOXing these groups will get worse as time goes on, especially considering how easy it is to get a second account and burner it by deleting your save and making a new one --- anyone can be in a decent pvp viper with only a couple hours effort.

anyways, the debate goes on. PVPers want compelling gameplay, a reason to fight, and targets.. we have little of all those (and RP our own reasons to fight). PVEers want safe places to space truck by themselves, which they have in abundance.

the solution, as i have always maintained is to create an 'open only' shard that is always online, where commanders and background sim are unique --- this would address ALL groups concerns, and make everybody happy.

 

[Stormprooter]

Hope that does not happen. Maybe, however, a switch in the group to say it is PvE, and you only get hit by another Human if you have entered a CZ and chosen a side... or are wanted maybe...

It's a tough one to call. Do we accept those limitations, which could appear to some as 'training wheels' - or do we ask to be treated as 'adults' and be responsible for our decisions in game. One caveat to that would be a bit of accidental friendly fire tolerance (again how much is reasonable?)

I don't know the answers - what you are suggesting is possibly a new game mode of open, but PvE only - I would probably play in that mode from time to time.....

 

[Meritz]

It wouldn't prevent ramming, verbal abuse and so on, but games of all different types have had a 'friendly fire' option for years, which is effectively what a 'PVP toggle' would amount to ('friendly' units being identified as anyone who's a human pilot, in that regard). Purely hypothetically, can anyone think of legitimate reasons why this couldn't be implemented as a mechanic?

It could, but one of the core design tenets FD built this game around is leaning towards realism and keeping action and consequence in the game, as opposed to metagaming options other games employ, such as PvP flagging.

Basically, the idea is that PvP should be allowed anywhere, between anyone, no holds barred, but with consequences. They're still working on those.

The fact that they're actively working on improving the bounty system, and crime and punishment in general should tell you not to get your hopes up about that sort of thing. And I think if they placed PvP flagging in Open the ensuing PR storm would make the whole offline mode incident look like a love letter to FD.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

It's a tough one to call. Do we accept those limitations, which could appear to some as 'training wheels' - or do we ask to be treated as 'adults' and be responsible for our decisions in game. One caveat to that would be a bit of accidental friendly fire tolerance (again how much is reasonable?)

I don't know the answers - what you are suggesting is possibly a new game mode of open, but PvE only - I would probably play in that mode from time to time.....

If you read through Sandro's contributions here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129252 PvP accidental fire is coming. Another Soon in the roadmap.

Agree with Meritz that it's the consequences that should manage the level of PvP and not a switch. And agree also that the PvP flag in Open would be a disaster...

 

[Jockey79]

..... And agree also that the PvP flag in Open would be a disaster...

Not really, it would provide those who bought the game for PvE and co-op play a reason to play in open. Let's face it, it now has been shown groups are broken and don't work for the purpose they were made.
Plus, if people would just leave others alone to start with - this would have be a non issue.

But 2 folks in this thread have proven that they just cannot leave others alone to play, so now... what ever fall out comes, is on them.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Not really, it would provide those who bought the game for PvE and co-op play a reason to play in open. Let's face it, it now has been shown groups are broken and don't work for the purpose they were made.
Plus, if people would just leave others alone to start with - this would have be a non issue.

But 2 folks in this thread have proven that they just cannot leave others alone to play, so now... what ever fall out comes, is on them.

My thought is that FDev will work harder on the in-game disincentives. If you go up to the stickies and add your two pence, the discussion is still ongoing.

I would go for being refused docking privileges for criminals.

 

[DaveB]

It could, but one of the core design tenets FD built this game around is leaning towards realism and keeping action and consequence in the game, as opposed to metagaming options other games employ, such as PvP flagging.

Basically, the idea is that PvP should be allowed anywhere, between anyone, no holds barred, but with consequences. They're still working on those.

The fact that they're actively working on improving the bounty system, and crime and punishment in general should tell you not to get your hopes up about that sort of thing. And I think if they placed PvP flagging in Open the ensuing PR storm would make the whole offline mode incident look like a love letter to FD.

On this we can totally agree. I wouldn't want a flag like that even if it would work. There are currently no meaningful consequences to going around mindlessly blowing up players just because you can. There needs to be, and if those consequences are tailored such that they fall heaviest on the mindless PKers (which are distinct in my view from serious PvPers, who would, in general, prefer a decent fight to just yawning and popping another new player in a sidey) then so much the better.

 

[Jorlin]

Lost interest in trying to search for a compromise, no interest in negotiations on "the other side".

So:
No changes to the current system, it works like intended.
It's perfect for me and why should i care for others that feel it isn't working for them?
It's exactly what it was planned to be. If anyone feels solo players are at an advantage: You have the same options, it's your personal decision to play as you do.
I'm not your game content and not responsible if you don't like the game.
You can't cut me off from game content or limit my game, i paid like you did.

Did i miss something?

 

[Traven Mayhem]

FDev has been pretty straight forward about how they want the community to deal with criminals: kill them, and claim their bounties. All this daydreaming of flags and denying docking rights is pretty funny fantasy: this game was built to have a load of PVP in it.. interdictors, hatchbreakers, bounties. It's pretty clear to anyone that despite whatever DB said in passing, this was meant to be PVP game and the *community* was meant to deal with pirates and criminals, not game mechanics.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

FDev has been pretty straight forward about how they want the community to deal with criminals: kill them, and claim their bounties. All this daydreaming of flags and denying docking rights is pretty funny fantasy: this game was built to have a load of PVP in it.. interdictors, hatchbreakers, bounties. It's pretty clear to anyone that despite whatever DB said in passing, this was meant to be PVP game and the *community* was meant to deal with pirates and criminals, not game mechanics.

Well then do us a favour mate, go deal with them.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

i already do?

i'm a pirate, and i hunt down PKers, and player bounty hunters. I'm doing my part

 

[Luniticisi]

after 5500+ posts I have to say that this argument is going nowhere, if you like Solo, Group or All play, get on with it and enjoy, it isn't going to change so make the best of what you have .. enjoy the game for what it is ... A game.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

after 5500+ posts I have to say that this argument is going nowhere, if you like Solo, Group or All play get on with it and enjoy, it isn't going to change so make the best of what you have .. enjoy the game for what it is ... A game.

If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

 

[fademist]

If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

and why they will do that?

 

[Jockey79]

If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

I think you missed something;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

As far back as the KS, modes was talked about - I'd not expect anything being changed now

 

[Lokus Midgard]

Useful link, thanks for that.

 

[Meritz]

If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

This. And I'm confident they will make changes that favor balanced multiplayer features as opposed to fulfilling someone's dreams of "revenge" on Open players.

In the meantime, players should continue pointing out what they feel doesn't work in the game and discuss how it can be improved. And if certain players here find opinions that differ from theirs offensive or traumatizing even, well, that's their problem.

 

[EUS]

If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

Most of the posts are the same people repeating points ad nauseam.
Just to toss in my 2 cents, I didn't buy a MMO, I bought a SP game.