Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

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I think you missed something;



As far back as the KS, modes was talked about - I'd not expect anything being changed now

Well if you bothered to read anything here with a itsy bitsy open mind, you would notice nobody is asking for changing how game modes work.

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Most of the posts are the same people repeating points ad nauseam.
Just to toss in my 2 cents, I didn't buy a MMO, I bought a SP game.

Newsflash, you didn't. A SP game would have been the cancelled offline mode. Your gameplay affects the game world, what you bought is a multiplayer game with the option to put the entire playerbase on your ignore list.
 
Newsflash, you didn't. A SP game would have been the cancelled offline mode. Your gameplay affects the game world, what you bought is a multiplayer game with the option to put the entire playerbase on your ignore list.

Perspective is an amazing thing.
Now you're telling me what I purchased.
I bought a SP game with MP tie-ins.
You bought a MMO.
 
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Most of the posts are the same people repeating points ad nauseam.
Just to toss in my 2 cents, I didn't buy a MMO, I bought a SP game.

well, you don't have one, since even in open play you can see station and system sovreignty flip fairly regularly due to the influence of other players in solo.

as for folks quoting KS links about the three modes, again -- thnings like this change and companies revisit design decisions. EVE Online was not supposed to be a 'pimarily PVP game' when it launched either, that changed slowly and gradually mostly due to the orgings of the PVP community. say what you will about edge cases like suicide ganking, the game has become a smashing sucess as a result, and still caters to the non-PVP player very well if they can be bothered to learn how to survive. the same will happen with elite some day and step one of that will likely be revisiting how open and solo modes interact to try and strike a better balance between the desires of the player base.

the xboxers will also likely be very vocal in their opposition to the two modes interacting, as they are a highly competetive and PVP centric crowd -- you can expect this debate to become a lot more heated when they show up, with a lot more warm bodies on the pro-pvp side of the fence.
 
Well if you bothered to read anything here with a itsy bitsy open mind, you would notice nobody is asking for changing how game modes work.

LMAO

Go back to page 1 of this thread and start reading. There has been a lot of requests to remove / change the modes - that is what this whole thread is about.

All the mergers are just the same topic, by people trying to hide their desire to change the game to what they want - not what they bought.
 
LMAO

Go back to page 1 of this thread and start reading. There has been a lot of requests to remove / change the modes - that is what this whole thread is about.

All the mergers are just the same topic, by people trying to hide their desire to change the game to what they want - not what they bought.

Careful. There is also the question of what people 'will buy' -- Their fist payed expansion has to meet or exceed sales of the first, or the game will start its descent into twilight. We've already shed a lot of players on both sides of the fence, many of the PVE crowd due to their dislike of PVP mechanics, and many of the PVP crowd due to their dislike of people hiding in solo, and the total failure that is instancing matchmaking.

This isn't a matter of pleaseing 'one or the other' .. FD needs to try and please all of the people, the current state of open/closed/solo isn't really doing that, and is a major bone of contention with the community. they would be rather foolish to not attempt to change things a little bit to improve the experience for all.

anothing thing to consider: the average lifespan of an eve online player who engages only in PVE is about 2 years. the average lifespan of a PVP player is -- they tend to never fully unsub, most have been playing for 10 years. The PVP crowd has a lot of loyalty to a game, long term if things are done right. PVErs will jump ship for the next shiny thing (star citizen) as soon as it hits the shelves.
 
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If they force people in to open play or give bonuses for it, all that will happen is people start blocking/firewalling P2P traffic while in open. So you won't be able to enter their session (this works I tried it), but still get the benefits from it.

It is the way it is by design. If you don't like it, well to bad really :)
 
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The gametime of every solo/group player is worth as much as an open player ones.
Open players do it because they enjoy it. That's fine and their benefit. If they want the benefit of solo players... well, they have the option.
 
pvp flag system would not work.


You can not segregate an open world sandbox game like that. you can not claim to share an online world when you create glass walls everywhere to divide it up into neat little personal spaces.


Don't go to Lugh and not expect to encounter CMDR's with contrary motives to your own if your goal is purely PvE. To me that is as counter-intuitive as farming Community Goal criteria from Solo mode. It's bad, counter-productive game play design.


It's world immersion breaking to allow players to be so selective as to have a PvP switch that says "nope! I want to be in an interactive sandbox, but I don't want to interact with you".


I'm not hating on the idea of PvE, I'm all for it. However, if you truly are a group of players who value cooperation and communion in gameplay experiences, then band together for your common interest. If a player insists on PvPing with your group... chase them off in the common interest of the greater majority. Isn't that what being a part of a group is all about?

Otherwise, you should really just stick to Solo and Private games as that is what they're there for.

I understand that some players love playing the spoiler... they undermine gameplay of others using means that are really outside of the virtual world itself. They stream-snipe players on TwitchTV, they lurk in forum threads looking for vulnerable targets. They may exploit loopholes and deficiencies in how the game itself works. I get that. Those situations are not what I'm talking about and not what I consider within the scope of sportsmanship that defines proper PvP. Those guys should be kicked in the virtual balls and no one should have to deal with that in any sort of sanctioned way to enjoy the game.

However, the distinction between spoilers and what is proper and responsible PvP should be shouted from the roof tops by every player who genuinely values a healthy environment for PvP.


What Frontier needs to do is, instead of creating further opportunities for players to easily segregate themselves, they should do the opposite and build up the social aspects of the game and reinforce the positive side of sharing an open world. They need to make it easier for players with common motives to find each other and reward positive behavior that comes from sharing an experience instead of encouraging the parasitic nature of combative/competitive player base encounters by default (which is what exists right now). Not just selectively turn it on and off at the purview of individual motives. Frontier needs to look at how to encourage players to help each other and see it as beneficial, so that they have a proper choice that isn't biased towards the only real value that encountering another player has is to prey upon them and compete directly against them.

It's simple. Many games bias a player to player encounter towards an adversarial outcome by putting a big dollar sign over the other players head. You get points/credits/power for being aggressive, nothing at all for being supportive... it's not rocket science to guess the outcome of that in an open world game. Anyone who looks at that formula and can't figure out why all the players do nothing but kill each other in the virtual environment really isn't suited to curating an open world MMO game.

You'd be surprised at how many players lean towards cooperation and supporting each over direct confrontation when provided with the most modest of incentives to do so. Yet... I've played so many online games that completely fail to do so effectively.


So, my basic rule is any solution that encourages more or stronger interaction between players is the right way to go. Anything that further isolates/segregates players to be the wrong path to follow. Reward and bolster the behaviors you want more of from your players (help over hinder each other), don't just disable or turn off choices for the player. A choice to be positive or negative towards another player is only really a choice when there is a balanced cause and effect from an outcome to consider. You will find a player choosing an outcome that risks a negative consequence if there is a chance for positive gain over a choice in which they have nothing to gain or lose from. Such is the case of the decision to attack another player, or simply ignore them. Where is the benefit of ignoring every player you meet? But then what option, other than ignoring a player, exists if not to attack them?

That is the crux at the heart of open play in Elite Dangerous.



I think that:

1) FD should consider not distinguishing between NPC's and CMDR's by default. An action like attacking or scanning a player should reveal that.

2) Anytime a player is interdicted by another player that instance should appear as a USS to other lawful players. Perhaps enhancing it with a Distress Beacon option so players can call for help from other lawful players (like Bounty Hunters) automatically.

3) Players should be able to declare a community group like a faction if they choose to be identified by one. Much like a faction alignment when scanned shows for players and NPC's.

4) Enhance the benefits of being lawful players, not just the consequences of being Wanted. Being wanted in Elite Dangerous has almost no stigma attached to it and thus very little influence on how the virtual environment treats the player. Again, it's about choice and the merits of choosing to avoid a wanted status over accepting a wanted status are pretty non existent.



Finally,

The real problem with the Open mode is the misconception of Open = PvP instead of Open = Social gameplay to begin with. Not every player to player encounter should be categorized as PvP. If that is the reality of your design for the Open World, then something is not balanced effectively enough to merit the title of "Open World Sandbox".
 
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LMAO

Go back to page 1 of this thread and start reading. There has been a lot of requests to remove / change the modes - that is what this whole thread is about.

Last I checked for that past few days it's pretty much me vs The League of PvP Monster Slayers. Anyone who is asking for removal or limitation of gameplay options is wrong. Balancing is one thing. Removal quite another.
 
It could, but one of the core design tenets FD built this game around is leaning towards realism and keeping action and consequence in the game, as opposed to metagaming options other games employ, such as PvP flagging.

Basically, the idea is that PvP should be allowed anywhere, between anyone, no holds barred, but with consequences. They're still working on those.

The fact that they're actively working on improving the bounty system, and crime and punishment in general should tell you not to get your hopes up about that sort of thing. And I think if they placed PvP flagging in Open the ensuing PR storm would make the whole offline mode incident look like a love letter to FD. ;)

I agree, if you are prepared to play in "OPEN" then anything should go.
For those who want no contact with other players there is of cause SOLO.
I think FD have got the three modes available just right it caterers for everyone.
 
...
as for folks quoting KS links about the three modes, again -- thnings like this change and companies revisit design decisions. EVE Online was not supposed to be a 'pimarily PVP game' when it launched either, that changed slowly and gradually mostly due to the orgings of the PVP community. say what you will about edge cases like suicide ganking, the game has become a smashing sucess as a result, and still caters to the non-PVP player very well if they can be bothered to learn how to survive. the same will happen with elite some day and step one of that will likely be revisiting how open and solo modes interact to try and strike a better balance between the desires of the player base.

the xboxers will also likely be very vocal in their opposition to the two modes interacting, as they are a highly competetive and PVP centric crowd -- you can expect this debate to become a lot more heated when they show up, with a lot more warm bodies on the pro-pvp side of the fence.

Really?
How many games change there core game play mechanic and selling point after launch and survived?
(EVE didn't change its core game, it is still the same game it was when it come out)

Plus, FD have stated so far, that is not on the cards.

As for overstating how the X Box people will react - LOL, thanks mystic meg for the prediction, I'll wait for evidence though.
 
anothing thing to consider: the average lifespan of an eve online player who engages only in PVE is about 2 years. the average lifespan of a PVP player is -- they tend to never fully unsub, most have been playing for 10 years. The PVP crowd has a lot of loyalty to a game, long term if things are done right. PVErs will jump ship for the next shiny thing (star citizen) as soon as it hits the shelves.

Precisely this. FD talked about a ten year plan for this game. Well, if they keep running PvP into the ground, the game simply won't last that long.

Now I'm waiting for someone to barge in here with "I've been playing the original Elite all this time!" as if that means anything. Unless you're a billionaire who will finance this game by yourself.
 
Perspective is an amazing thing.
Now you're telling me what I purchased.
I bought a SP game with MP tie-ins.
You bought a MMO.

If this doesn't tell us that FD screwed up royally on the multiplayer design, I don't know what will.
 
Precisely this. FD talked about a ten year plan for this game. Well, if they keep running PvP into the ground, the game simply won't last that long.

They said that about Star Trek Online - 5 years later, still going......

I love how many fortune tellers there are here now, now only if one of you would give me the lottery numbers.
 
Really?
How many games change there core game play mechanic and selling point after launch and survived?
(EVE didn't change its core game, it is still the same game it was when it come out).

Uh, no.

EVE was basically elite dangerous when it launched. Sovreignty, killmails, capital ships, outposts and player owned stations, wormholes -- all major content, conflict and PVP drivers were added AFTER launch, within the first two years of operation.

Please know what you're talking about, if you are going to talk about it.
 
If you think it's not going to change you have not played many MMO's. After a few more month of operations and smoothing out the patches, it's pretty unlikely Fdev will not revisit and reconsider a topic that has generated the largest amount of posts since the games launch.

A large amount of posts on a single topic only say that there are opposing views and the debate continues, it certainly doesn't say that a majority want a certain thing.. There will DEFIANTLY not be a change in Solo,Group and All as a play style.. it was introduced very early on and taking it away will only alienate players who wish to play 'Their Way' .. all I was saying is get used to the way the game works as it is staying.
 
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