Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Meritz]

A large amount of posts on a single topic only say that there are opposing views and the debate continues, it certainly doesn't say that a majority want a certain thing.. There will DEFIANTLY not be a change in Solo,Group and All as a play style.. it was introduced very early on and taking it away will only alienate players who wish to play 'Their Way' .. all I was saying is get used to the way the game works as it is staying.

Doesn't mean the balancing between these modes will not be done, or that FD will not put in measures to encourage a healthy and loyal playerbase for years to come. Single player games do not last as long as multiplayer games do. Cash shops don't work out too well with SP games either.

Solo is here as a mode, but Open is the crown jewel of the game.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

and they always forget on other games examples that pvp servers is dead and only pve are overpopulated ;p

let's use wow as a benchmark, as it's the oldest most successful MMO's. it was also squarely designed as a PVE game, with minimal/afterthought PVP. fully 40%+ of the us player population is on PVP servers. That does not include people on 'PVE' servers who still participate in PVP arena matches on those servers. On the european side of the fence, about 55-60% of the player base is on PVP servers.

source: http://realmpop.com

 

[Joe Spivey]

anothing thing to consider: the average lifespan of an eve online player who engages only in PVE is about 2 years. the average lifespan of a PVP player is -- they tend to never fully unsub, most have been playing for 10 years. The PVP crowd has a lot of loyalty to a game, long term if things are done right. PVErs will jump ship for the next shiny thing (star citizen) as soon as it hits the shelves.

Precisely this. FD talked about a ten year plan for this game. Well, if they keep running PvP into the ground, the game simply won't last that long.

Now I'm waiting for someone to barge in here with "I've been playing the original Elite all this time!" as if that means anything. Unless you're a billionaire who will finance this game by yourself.

Wow, you have taken self-delusional fantasy to new heights with this. You mentioned original Elite. Ok, let's talk about original Elite and all its iterations. Incredibly popular in their time, very immersive, very addictive, played for hours at a sitting and the PvP was just so... oh wait, that's right. No PvP. Wow, well that kinda puts the damper on the idea that without PvP the game will die.

Wait, let me make an unsupported statement too and present no evidence. Here goes... The PVE crowd has a lot of loyalty to a game, long term if things are done right. PVPrs will jump ship for the next shiny thing (star citizen) as soon as it hits the shelves. See... works just as well as the version above. Let's do it again, ready... Precisely this. FD talked about a ten year plan for this game. Well, if they keep running PvE into the ground, the game simply won't last that long. See. Works just as well and is just as hollow as the assertions above.

Guys, staements like this, without evidence to back them up are only true in YOUR mind and sound hollow and empty when said to someone without your mindset.

 

[Jockey79]

Doesn't mean the balancing between these modes will not be done, or that FD will not put in measures to encourage a healthy and loyal playerbase for years to come. Single player games do not last as long as multiplayer games do. Cash shops don't work out too well with SP games either.

Solo is here as a mode, but Open is the crown jewel of the game.

You really need to go back through this thread, that got shot down ages ago - but thanks for playing the misinformation game

 

[fademist]

let's use wow as a benchmark, as it's the oldest most successful MMO's. it was also squarely designed as a PVE game, with minimal/afterthought PVP. fully 40%+ of the us player population is on PVP servers. That does not include people on 'PVE' servers who still participate in PVP arena matches on those servers. On the european side of the fence, about 55-60% of the player base is on PVP servers.

source: http://realmpop.com

and explain why more of them now is low pop cause ppl go to pve servers? ....

 

[Luniticisi]

Doesn't mean the balancing between these modes will not be done, or that FD will not put in measures to encourage a healthy a loyal playerbase for years to come. Single player games do not last as long as multiplayer games do. Cash shops don't work out too well with SP games either.

Solo is here as a mode, but Open is the crown jewel of the game.

You are entitled to you opinion, but Open (multi-player) has held back the development of this game considerably, I personally couldn't give a fig for multi player. As to single player games not lasting .. you are playing a game that was always single player and has been around for 30 years, it was so good they made it multi-player .. I have no idea if any multi player game has that longevity.

Edit* oh wait, I do ... they don't ..

 

[Jorlin]

Solo is here as a mode, but Open is the crown jewel of the game.

And once more stating your opinion as a fact.
I, and many others, have a different one... so it can't be a fact.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

You are entitled to you opinion, but Open (multi-player) has held back the development of this game considerably, I personally couldn't give a fig for multi player. As to single player games not lasting .. you are playing a game that was always single player and has been around for 30 years, it was so good they made it multi-player .. I have no idea if any multi player game has that longevity.

who is delusional?

mate you are playing the sequel/new iteration of a game franchise that has not been touched in almost 25 years (i don't count oolite), not some runaway smash hit that has been holding peoples interests for 30 yeras. elite was a cool game, but it was from a different era of gaming, saying this game should be like it cuz that's how things were 30 years ago is not a very forward looking perspective.

i would also argue that 'multiplayer' has not held up development, but single player sure was -- that's probably why they decided to simply drop offline mode and create what they really wanted to create -- an online multiplayer game. solo appears to be the bone the threw to try and appeal/salvage some of the 'offline' players.

 

[Jockey79]

....- an online multiplayer game. solo appears to be the bone the threw to try and appeal/salvage some of the 'offline' players.

Someone else who need to fact check.

Offline and the 3 modes were planned together, Solo wasn't offered as a replacement for offline - but as an excuse to drop it.

 

[Joe Spivey]

i would also argue that 'multiplayer' has not held up development, but single player sure was -- that's probably why they decided to simply drop offline mode and create what they really wanted to create -- an online multiplayer game. solo appears to be the bone the threw to try and appeal/salvage some of the 'offline' players.

Well done. With this one paragraph you have proved that you have no idea what you are talking about. 'Probably' why they decided to drop offline? Really? 'Probably'... you mean you don't know? My friend, it is common knowledge why offline was dropped and a little bit of research on your part would reveal it. *shakes head sadly* Then you go on 'Solo appears to be the bone....' What?! Anyone who knows anything about this game KNOWS that online solo was here from the very beginning. Offline was discussed as a possibility during the later design forum stage. But it was only ever a possibility, one which sadly proved to be impossible to implement. May I suggest that you take no further part in this discussion now that you have proved yourself woefully ignorant of the game you are pontificating about. Spend your time doing some research.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Well done. With this one paragraph you have proved that you have no idea what you are talking about. 'Probably' why they decided to drop offline? Really? 'Probably'... you mean you don't know? My friend, it is common knowledge why offline was dropped and a little bit of research on your part would reveal it. *shakes head sadly* Then you go on 'Solo appears to be the bone....' What?! Anyone who knows anything about this game KNOWS that online solo was here from the very beginning. Offline was discussed as a possibility during the later design forum stage. But it was only ever a possibility, one which sadly proved to be impossible to implement. May I suggest that you take no further part in this discussion now that you have proved yourself woefully ignorant of the game you are pontificating about. Spend your time doing some research.

you seem to have swallowed the company line, however I will point out the old adage of 'where there is smoke, there is fire'. As for your suggestion, thanks but I think I will stay.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

i would also argue that 'multiplayer' has not held up development, but single player sure was -- that's probably why they decided to simply drop offline mode and create what they really wanted to create -- an online multiplayer game. solo appears to be the bone the threw to try and appeal/salvage some of the 'offline' players.

As per my understanding, that's not at all the explanation they gave. They felt they would be unable to do what they wanted to, play-wise in general, with the present set-up of how the galaxy is modelled. There was a strong suggestion of wanting to continue with off-line if it gelled with whatever their present method of creating the game world is, but that unforeseen circumstances don't allow it.

I and others take issue with the assertion that off-line galaxy generation would be too memory-intensive, but it is what it is. Frontier have been very clear that it was not a course of action they wanted to take and that going down this road was not how they would have preferred to have gone.

Single-player is still a primary aim they want to implement just as well as multi-player. It's got nothing to do with single-player being a somehow inferior experience they're only doing because they feel forced to. It's literally got the same kind of content as multi-player does. They'd still have to programme the same AI, ship and station models, gravitational effects, physics and so on. Erasing single-player wouldn't ease up their work-load, by any means.

 

[Joe Spivey]

you seem to have swallowed the company line, however I will point out the old adage of 'where there is smoke, there is fire'. As for your suggestion, thanks but I think I will stay.

Oh, just go and read the Design Discussion forum will you instead of spouting nonsense. Come back when you can make a cognitive argument.

 

[Luniticisi]

who is delusional?

mate you are playing the sequel/new iteration of a game franchise that has not been touched in almost 25 years (i don't count oolite), not some runaway smash hit that has been holding peoples interests for 30 yeras. elite was a cool game, but it was from a different era of gaming, saying this game should be like it cuz that's how things were 30 years ago is not a very forward looking perspective.

i would also argue that 'multiplayer' has not held up development, but single player sure was -- that's probably why they decided to simply drop offline mode and create what they really wanted to create -- an online multiplayer game. solo appears to be the bone the threw to try and appeal/salvage some of the 'offline' players.

I didn't call anyone delusional, everyone is entitled to their opinion. the reason FD dropped offline wasn't because they thought that multi-player was the way to go, it was because they had stored too much info on their servers and couldn't inject events without the game being online. everything comes from FD (which could be the games undoing) there is no Bone being thrown, FD wanted to do an offline version but realised that it wasn't viable.
The fact is that most of the the BETA development was taken up by the P2P networking issues.

This game will never be the PvP fest that some people want .. it is too big.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

when did i ever suggest they should erase single player?

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Populated space is 500 ly across.

I can traverse that in about 60-70 minutes with my cobra. This game is not that big. It takes considerably longer to fly around the EVE universe.

Everything outside populated space idoesn't really count. you can't do anything with that space other than explore it.

 

[Luniticisi]

Populated space is 500 ly across.

I can traverse that in about 60-70 minutes with my cobra. This game is not that big. It takes considerably longer to fly around the EVE universe.

Everything outside populated space idoesn't really count. you can do anything with that space other than explore it.

what does that have to do with the price of fish?

 

[fademist]

I didn't call anyone delusional, everyone is entitled to their opinion. the reason FD dropped offline wasn't because they thought that multi-player was the way to go, it was because they had stored too much info on their servers and couldn't inject events without the game being online. everything comes from FD (which could be the games undoing) there is no Bone being thrown, FD wanted to do an offline version but realised that it wasn't viable.
The fact is that most of the the BETA development was taken up by the P2P networking issues.

This game will never be the PvP fest that some people want .. it is too big.

they can fix that i think with random generated events

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when did i ever suggest they should erase single player?

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Populated space is 500 ly across.

I can traverse that in about 60-70 minutes with my cobra. This game is not that big. It takes considerably longer to fly around the EVE universe.

Everything outside populated space idoesn't really count. you can't do anything with that space other than explore it.

and here ur complety wrong...

 

[JosiahD]

It's poor design that's going to end up hurting the game long term. We can and do suck it up, but what does that change?



You know, when discussing fairness, invoking majority is really not the good way to go about it.



And at the same time, it is ok to expect Open players to choose between being effective and playing the way they want?

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You're welcome, thank you for supporting my argument.

Sorry but that's just horsehockey.

Point 1 - it's not bad design just because you don't like it. It's actually good design in the opinion of many -including Frontier it would seem (and the developers of Shroud of the Avatar should you want another example). I didn't like the design of space combat in SWTOR - that didn't make it bad design, just one I disliked. Know what I did? I stopped playing the game (albeit not due to that element alone). Do you get the hint?

Point 2 - You're in the minority here mate. Fact is you're wrong in the eyes of the majority. I know you believe you're right, but that doesn't make you so, at least not if it were to come down to a majority vote. If you want to get into fairness though, the mode switching is entirely fair given that it's available to ALL players. Just because you don't like it or disagree with it doesn't make it unfair. Any exploits are a different matter and something for Frontier to keep working on.

Point 3 - not forcing a damn thing on you mate. You talk like the mode switching was imposed on you AFTER you bought the game, which it wasn't. You're playing the game you signed up to, along with everyone (that majority I spoke of earlier) that supports the idea of mode switching. You signed up to a game knowing beforehand that the mode switching was in place. Bad luck - maybe this isn't the game for you after all?

 

[Traven Mayhem]

they can fix that i think with random generated events

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and here ur complety wrong...

Umm.. Go 2000 LY from sol to an unpopulated system, and please tellme what things there are to do other than fly around, look at the skybox, explore things and 'use your imagination'

unexplored space is fine for explorers, my point is that as far as pvp, multiplayer and player interaction goes, the 'relevant world' is 500 Ly across, and is not actually all that large. People teaming up and exploring in wings etc is a bit of an edge case for now, and i hope they flesh it out more. I was responding to another posters point about elite's world being 'too big' to be a pvp sandbox (it's not)

 

[fademist]

Umm.. Go 2000 LY from sol to an unpopulated system, and please tellme what things there are to do other than fly around, look at the skybox, explore things and 'use your imagination'

unexplored space is fine for explorers, my point is that as far as pvp, multiplayer and player interaction goes, the 'relevant world' is 500 Ly across, and is not actually all that large. People teaming up and exploring in wings etc is a bit of an edge case for now, and i hope they flesh it out more. I was responding to another posters point about elite's world being 'too big' to be a pvp sandbox (it's not)

u can go to elite rank on combat too ;p...