Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Viajero]

You realise that once you give the "everyone must be forced to play open" crowd that much the next demand will be stop solo/private group players earning the same as us. They do it now with trading. As you can see from Cosmos comments above what they really want is this to be online multiplayer only. They have just realised that they need to do this in small increments.

No I dont. The idea clearly says what it says, chief among which is the principle that there will still be the same Cr. and tier awards for both OPEN and SOLO. We are not discussing "the next demand".

 

[MaraJade]

It's great this is really being looked at carefully from all angles.

For me it still comes down to PVP vs PVE. Both play styles are great and up to each individual.

My only though to encourage more play in open is "Flagged for PVP". This way it's up to the commander if they wish to engage or not. Now if they fire on a flagged player, they are flagged. If they go to a combat zone, they are flagged. If they do community goals, they are flagged. Heck you could still be pulled out of supercruise, if you engage, your flagged, if you run, nothing happens which is kind of the same thing now. Have a 5 min timer when you turn your flag to No pvp.

Just my thoughts.

 

[halo jones 101]

Hello Commander jp josh!

We've hopefully got a fix for Capital ship farming exploits lined up (provisionally for 1.3, but no guarantee).

What I took from Commander Demiga's suggestion was that there might be a consensus that activities carried out in solo mode are "safer/unfair" as there is no chance for other Commanders to oppose them.

I'm not going to take a side at the moment, because I'd like to consider it more.

It could definitely be seen as an attempt to entice folk into playing open, though if the personal rewards remained unchanged I'm not sure that this would be an utter evil.

Fundamentally, Community goals are about Commanders working together, in concert or in opposition. It does not seem completely unreasonable that for such elements we might encourage direct interaction more.

On the other hand, I'm wary of the precedent this might set, and want to make sure that solo mode always fulfils all the requirements it needs to, remaining the completely valid option that it is.

So this is something we would not consider lightly.

I have every sympathy, with those taking part in the community goals having some issues with the present balance issues of Solo Vs Open, however as i have said in my many posts on the numerous threads started by a minority on this issue, that bringing community goal gameplay into the current build of ED is a learning curve for both FD and the player base involved, you as lead designer, can i would hope be able to extract from the server information some kind of analysis of the numbers of player involved against the player base, and the various differing break down of these statistics between Open Solo etc.

Sadly though there is much wailing and nashing of teeth that FD havent done this yesterday, and then coded a fix that is perfect and wont upset the general balance of the core game mechanics, that you are designing...

I suspect that the forums is representative of only a small part of the player base who are happy with the game, and also happy for you to continue to develop the game as you would want to play it.

 

[Commander Edison]

But in fact, i can play private group alone all the time, without any risk and responsibility.

This should be considered as solo.

And also, with good known people i have no threat in the private group.

I suggest: merge solo and private group. Separate open play character from it.

Verging dangerously on being merged with the mega thread here, best be careful...

On the disparity in rewards and risk, I feel moved to point out that as I always play in open I can wing up with three like minded associates* and gain an advantage in terms of firepower and flexibility that by very definintion isn't available for players in solo.

Now, at the same time I'm not saying there isn't a problem that exists with comunity goals, but we all seem to lose sight of the fact that open has it's own advantages built in.

*Total disclosure- these friends are totally hypothetical, as I don't have any.

 

[obliterator]

any in game compromise to entice players in solo or group out into open play is fundamentally wrong, the only reason folks that play in open want more people in open is to pirate/player kill them, people who have no interest in being player killed for giggles shouldn't be punished on gameplay features as a result of wishing to remain in a quieter game mode for them. FD have always maintained that all 3 modes are viable game modes and wouldn't inflict a system where players were disadvantaged by not being in open play.

Enty

Nice strawman.

Just because we want more people in open doesn't mean we are pirates or a PKs. I want more people in open because I want the game to feel more alive, that's it. You say that all 3 mode should be viable, and this is why FD should balance the fact that solo is more efficient than open.

 

[EUS]

Arbitrary reductions/increases based on play type doesn't make sense.
What is the argument here? He/she gets more virtual money than me because he/she plays in solo vs open?
If the money actually mattered, there may be a point to this, but as it stands, as far as I can tell, 1cr earned in solo does not take away 1cr earned in open, & vice-versa, therefor the argument of solo hurts open players is a non-starter.
The real reason these posts continue is because certain players want to force their gameplay style on everyone else.

Ugh, now the thread is merged again.

 

[Kaeldian]

A suggestion to the Mods - could you possibly take Sandro's comment's from the latest merged thread and include them in the post at the top of the thread? Might be a good thing to point to later if this comes up.

 

[Cody]

Ugh, now the thread is merged again.

<nods> It probably should've been left as is though!

 

[Ahriakin]

Here we go again. I'm so tired of the same stuff, I'm just going to post here once without any attempt at being PC.

- I play in Open, its sooooo much harder, waaaahhhhh
-- Yes and you have Wings to compensate.

- Solo/Group aren't part of the community but they get treated the same, waaaaahhhh
-- Each and every player paid the same amount you did. They did so based on a promise and game design that allowed the different domains. They contribute here and on the various community hubs and tools just as much. GET OVER YOURSELVES, you do not get to define who the true players are, what the true player-filter domain is. The arrogance being displayed here regularly is absolutely shocking.

- All those players in Solo won't interact with me, waaaaahhhhh
-- After reading the 'we are the community and all others are not' posts dominating these threads while it didn't start that way it is certainly true now. Do you really think there have been any arguments made by the extreme open play folks that would actually make someone want to switch? Seriously? All you have done is tar the vast number of decent open-play folks with the same brush. I was starting to play more open but the attitude I have seen repeatedly makes me not want to ever encounter you people in a game let alone a social setting of any kind.

- A Dev actually considering preferential treatment with apparently very little actual research (you mentioned a concensus...from one person's post you actually said you believed there was a 'concensus')
-- Go ahead, it's your game, I'll be deleting it when you do.

- Knowing that the following posts will say 'good to see you go then' remember with how hotly this has been discussed I would not be the only one. And then all you open-play folks won't have to worry about forcing more players into open since the vast majority of them will have moved on. At which point you will get bored and move on to the next thing and try to change it to suit your own lopsided views also.
And then... GG Frontier.

 

[Walt Kerman]

Hello Commander jp josh!

We've hopefully got a fix for Capital ship farming exploits lined up (provisionally for 1.3, but no guarantee).

What I took from Commander Demiga's suggestion was that there might be a consensus that activities carried out in solo mode are "safer/unfair" as there is no chance for other Commanders to oppose them.

I'm not going to take a side at the moment, because I'd like to consider it more.

It could definitely be seen as an attempt to entice folk into playing open, though if the personal rewards remained unchanged I'm not sure that this would be an utter evil.

Fundamentally, Community goals are about Commanders working together, in concert or in opposition. It does not seem completely unreasonable that for such elements we might encourage direct interaction more.

On the other hand, I'm wary of the precedent this might set, and want to make sure that solo mode always fulfils all the requirements it needs to, remaining the completely valid option that it is.

So this is something we would not consider lightly.

I think I have a solution for you that will satisfy solo, private, and open and leaves them effectively unchanged. This way you wouldn't have to set a precedent and all features would continue to be in all the other game modes.

I am glad your are considering the issue. I'll be posting it in my other thread as it doesn't effect how solo, private, and open operate but rather is an alternative solution. I would post it now but I'm using my phone ATM.

 

[Distance]

and why my efforts to be lowered when i payed the same amount of money like you?.... if i knew that they gonna change it sure us hell i wont even bothered to buy the game simple us that ...hope that isnt more that feel that way though...

They would be lowered IF they kept the current system to stop solo players having an unfair advantage which by your logic, I paid the same as you but solo players earn more in community goals . . .

If you take either of the weapons trading goals from the current Lugh community goals can you please explain to me how a player in open can stop a player from solo from delivering weapons to a station? The solo player clearly has the advantage.

If you're in a combat zone with another 8 cmdrs all competing for the same ships vs a solo player in the same cz shooting the same ships with no competition on kills. Solo again clearly has the advantage.

I personally don't think there should be a difference in earning but the same community goals in solo and open but they are limited to solo and open. You can have two blockade goals and two combat goals and you can choose one or the other. Then at the end of the goal you can tally up equally between the solo and open goals to decide the outcome. This way noone feels cheated, noone feels like their influence is any different and everyone wins.

In this instance it's not the open mode players asking for special treatment we're asking for our efforts to be rewarded in a meaningful way just like yours are in solo. Right now with community goals there's no reason to actually do them in open if you can make more credits and have more influence over the goal from solo.

The thread got merged anyway so instead of being able to discuss the community goal mechanics in a meaningful way we're back to a poop storm of solo vs open.

 

[Meritz]

I think no. Those of us who backed the game and who chose to play the pve solo or group mode, were never informed that our contribution to the game to actually get the kickstarter funded enough to make the game, would be treated in some way differently to those who wish to choose open play.
I constantly see additions and tweaks, also unfortunately whines from the open play crowd about how they want more, and many many calls for group play to be separated at it is always claimed to be unfair. This idea is yet another nail in the pve coffin. Our money was as good as any others to get this game going in the first place so why should we not receive equal shares, payouts and contributions.
So Sandro I should think you should listen less to the open play PVP players. They paid no more than I or many other PVE players and in a lot of cases, a lot less. The only unfairness I see here is treating PVE players as some kind of second class who do not deserve as much as open players.

And you get to enjoy the game just as everyone else. No special treatment. Just to make it clear, I am all for options and believe giving players a separate group or solo mode to choose from is probably the best choice that doesn't really exclude anyone or intrude on their gameplay preferences.

But the playing field must be level. As it is now quite obvious that FD are aware of the problem and are considering what to do about it, I am content to leave it their hands.

As for the kickstarter, that was in the past. The "Open play crowd" is what will largely finance this game in the future.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The game was designed for this to happen. People getting upset about getting attached by other players have SO many options.

Get better at escaping.
Don't get caught in the first place.
Learn to fight back and win.


And its not griefing, its part of the game.

Says the person who went into a PvE group attacked a few players and then bragged about it on here that you beat them (with your gank mate helping of course) You have some front even still posting on this topic IMO

 

[Kayweg]

No I dont. The idea clearly says what it says, chief among which is the principle that there will still be the same Cr. and tier awards for both OPEN and SOLO. We are not discussing "the next demand".

Nevermind the cr being the same, i think everyone understands that.

Fact is, that this would diminish the solo players impact on the background simulation/community goals (however just or unjust one might perceive that).

Please explain to me, how does that NOT qualify as segregation of the community ? (assuming that FD still considers players of all game modes to be part of ONE community)

 

[Demiga]

Here we go again. I'm so tired of the same stuff, I'm just going to post here once without any attempt at being PC.

- I play in Open, its sooooo much harder, waaaahhhhh
-- Yes and you have Wings to compensate.

- Solo/Group aren't part of the community but they get treated the same, waaaaahhhh
-- Each and every player paid the same amount you did. They did so based on a promise and game design that allowed the different domains. They contribute here and on the various community hubs and tools just as much. GET OVER YOURSELVES, you do not get to define who the true players are, what the true player-filter domain is. The arrogance being displayed here regularly is absolutely shocking.

- All those players in Solo won't interact with me, waaaaahhhhh
-- After reading the 'we are the community and all others are not' posts dominating these threads while it didn't start that way it is certainly true now. Do you really think there have been any arguments made by the extreme open play folks that would actually make someone want to switch? Seriously? All you have done is tar the vast number of decent open-play folks with the same brush. I was starting to play more open but the attitude I have seen repeatedly makes me not want to ever encounter you people in a game let alone a social setting of any kind.

- A Dev actually considering preferential treatment with apparently very little actual research (you mentioned a concensus...from one person's post you actually said you believed there was a 'concensus')
-- Go ahead, it's your game, I'll be deleting it when you do.

- Knowing that the following posts will say 'good to see you go then' remember with how hotly this has been discussed I would not be the only one. And then all you open-play folks won't have to worry about forcing more players into open since the vast majority of them will have moved on. At which point you will get bored and move on to the next thing and try to change it to suit your own lopsided views also.
And then... GG Frontier.

Just so you know - there are no real advantages to this - I have YET to play in open - Only reason I proposed this is so that the open players get one advantage of their own - I dont mean for solo players to not affect a community goal in any way, I just meant for the effectiveness - The way the game is played right now, this second, nothing, absolutely nothing will change - an extra mechanic will be added on. Its really only a bandaid solution, but its one that should keep everyonehappy because ultimately, nothing will change from the way it is

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The diminishing affect will be proportional to "how easy" solo mode is compared to open - I say it like that because, yes, I can go to a warzone in solo and farm 1million credits pretty quick, but someone in open is going to have a MUCH harder time dealing with other CMDRs - And im not saying reduce effectiveness down to 10% - Im sayin make it more like 80-85% - its not much of a drop, and the only thing it will affect is the OVERALL community goal - the best way to grab numbers is to farm 100k credits in solo, then go to the same spot in that same warzone and farm the same amount in open...takes alot longer...thats the only point I Was trying to make

 

[Wicz]

Ah well, I'll continue to play and enjoy myself.

However, the day anything like this is implemented will be my last. We ALL knew how the game worked when we put our hands in our pockets to buy it.

I play in the mobius group to avoid the rubber banding, exploiting griefers and combat loggers. I do miss the honourable pirates, but it's a small price to pay to avoid the rest of it.

You can't offer me any incentive to get me to swap the experience I get in group for what is on offer in open, and after paying the same as everyone else who bought the Merc edition, I will not be punished ( not on any level ) for choosing to play my way, just no.

It'll be a sad day, a very sad day actually, but I have other games.


The guy I have quoted below also makes a good point.

Verging dangerously on being merged with the mega thread here, best be careful...

On the disparity in rewards and risk, I feel moved to point out that as I always play in open I can wing up with three like minded associates* and gain an advantage in terms of firepower and flexibility that by very definintion isn't available for players in solo.

Now, at the same time I'm not saying there isn't a problem that exists with comunity goals, but we all seem to lose sight of the fact that open has it's own advantages built in.

*Total disclosure- these friends are totally hypothetical, as I don't have any.

 

[Walt Kerman]

They would be lowered IF they kept the current system to stop solo players having an unfair advantage which by your logic, I paid the same as you but solo players earn more in community goals . . .

If you take either of the weapons trading goals from the current Lugh community goals can you please explain to me how a player in open can stop a player from solo from delivering weapons to a station? The solo player clearly has the advantage.

If you're in a combat zone with another 8 cmdrs all competing for the same ships vs a solo player in the same cz shooting the same ships with no competition on kills. Solo again clearly has the advantage.

I personally don't think there should be a difference in earning but the same community goals in solo and open but they are limited to solo and open. You can have two blockade goals and two combat goals and you can choose one or the other. Then at the end of the goal you can tally up equally between the solo and open goals to decide the outcome. This way noone feels cheated, noone feels like their influence is any different and everyone wins.

In this instance it's not the open mode players asking for special treatment we're asking for our efforts to be rewarded in a meaningful way just like yours are in solo. Right now with community goals there's no reason to actually do them in open if you can make more credits and have more influence over the goal from solo.

The thread got merged anyway so instead of being able to discuss the community goal mechanics in a meaningful way we're back to a poop storm of solo vs open.

My community goal thread did not get merged.

 

[Demiga]

My community goal thread did not get merged.

lol be happy, I cant find my original post....

 

[tmw2442]

Wings full of FDLs and clippers flying around pirating are not really taking any inherent risk. Maybe make security more prevalent in higher populous systems, make interdiction harder, allow people to higher NPC protection, make a module for cargo haulers to make interdiction more difficult, or increase the penalties for murder or stolen cargo. It currently feels like there are groups doing this just to attack newbs. Some of us come to the game to relax and get away from jerks we all deal with in daily life, not to be constantly inundated by them. Please do not take away solo mode.

 

[Walt Kerman]

lol be happy, I cant find my original post....

Oh I specifically avoided the changing open or solo in my solution for a reason =p