Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[StarTux]

Or even be on a different continent to them, where even in open you would never, ever, ever meet then due to matchmaking.

The busier the place, the more instances = less change of blocking.

Or use a VPN connection to make it seem you're connecting from a different continent....No need to move. A whole bunch of other things you can do too to affect traffic that Frontier would be hard pressed to act on as circumventing a system.

Then throw in David Braben playing on his tethered laptop on the train to work .

 

[Sigon]

Or use a VPN connection to make it seem you're connecting from a different continent....No need to move. A whole bunch of other things you can do too to affect traffic that Frontier would be hard pressed to act on as circumventing a system.

Actually, I had to jump through quite some hoops with my Router and settings and services in Windows 7 to make sure I -did- see other people. When some services in Windows are disabled (which I tend to do if they are not actively in use and just cause overhead), upnp is simply not working and you won't see other people in open. Which is also why adding 'incentives' to open will not work because if uPnP fails, it effectively turns open in solo. (You see the server, just not other people)

 

[DarkWalker]

Actually, I had to jump through quite some hoops with my Router and settings and services in Windows 7 to make sure I -did- see other people. When some services in Windows are disabled (which I tend to do if they are not actively in use and just cause overhead), upnp is simply not working and you won't see other people in open. Which is also why adding 'incentives' to open will not work because if uPnP fails, it effectively turns open in solo. (You see the server, just not other people)

Yep. Making open behave like solo is so easy, it can be done by accident

(Or toggled on and off with a very short script bound to a keypress, for those that actually want to game the system.)

 

[SCADVID]

There are people that will stop at nothing to destroy our options in this game. No matter how eloquently they may appear or post, there underlying purpose is to force every player into an open arena, (just like EVE).

Because they play EvE and want ED to be EvE 2. They try to play ED like EvE even when the mechanics don't exist! lololol

That's what the forum jockeying is about. They'll approve stuff what is in EvE or EvE-like, because that's their comfort zone. And unlike Blizzard, CCP doesn't change comfort zones every 3-4 months. So they refuse playing any other way.

Options are always best for gamers. More reasons to play. Win/win.

For example, this morning I checked Steam, and another game I got before ED, even though the promotion was over (and took it's 2 achieves with it) they brought it back when players asked (those 2 achieves are needed!). DLC too. It took the dev some work to rearrange the charity promo with Steam and the charity again, but they did so for the players. Even brought in a content patch (with free music too). XD

Now that's WOW. Feel really babied there.

But it's a unique game, so there's none of the politics you see here of trying to control how a game is played, too.

 

[nedeaalex]

Because they play EvE and want ED to be EvE 2. They try to play ED like EvE even when the mechanics don't exist! lololol

That's what the forum jockeying is about. They'll approve stuff what is in EvE or EvE-like, because that's their comfort zone. And unlike Blizzard, CCP doesn't change comfort zones every 3-4 months. So they refuse playing any other way.

Options are always best for gamers. More reasons to play. Win/win.

For example, this morning I checked Steam, and another game I got before ED, even though the promotion was over (and took it's 2 achieves with it) they brought it back when players asked (those 2 achieves are needed!). DLC too. It took the dev some work to rearrange the charity promo with Steam and the charity again, but they did so for the players. Even brought in a content patch (with free music too). XD

Now that's WOW. Feel really babied there.

But it's a unique game, so there's none of the politics you see here of trying to control how a game is played, too.

I have never even installed EVE. I don't even know how EVE works. All i want is to feel like I play an MMO. Like the one that WAS SOLD TO ME? Every trailer screams of MMO, and wars in the galaxy, and guilds of pirates and miners and capital ships ifghting eachother... Why am I being pointed at on the forums if I ask for the things that were advertised ?

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Mighty FD here mighty FD there, maybe they need to realize that making it an MMO on steam and not actually being an MMO, is kinda silly

 

[nedeaalex]

Yea, me too. I'm not going to go to "PVP Open" no matter what. Just not my cup of tea. Been enjoying my play in, "Mobius" too much to ever change, at least until, "PVE Open" is a reality. I just would never enjoy the ganking style of PVP there.

There are people that will stop at nothing to destroy our options in this game. No matter how eloquently they may appear or post, there underlying purpose is to force every player into an open arena, (just like EVE). The people like this will never come to grips with allowing players to tune them out. Its really unfair in there eyes. They will never quit beating this dead horse in hopes of finding that golden spear. The golden spear that will force FD to make just one choice, open for everybody. To them FD is simply confused, and miss guided, and not completely aware of how things just have to be. How dare them violate the EvE code.

It is my belief that nothing, Blockades, Community Goals, or the such will ever be more important to FD, then everyone being able to play their way, and enjoy themselves. You probably just need to accept this. I personally think it would be better for everyone.

This game has a wonderful design, and I really appreciate how it's laid out, I think a lot of people do. I really do thoroughly enjoy myself playing it. If Eve have had a PVE server I would still be playing it!

Elite is never gonna be perfect, you ever played a game that was, (except for EvE of course)? Elite's not perfect, but its ,"REALLY COOL". So my suggestion to everyone is this. Go out and play your game, focus on your game, focus on your fun. I'm not part of it.

SO if you don't like it, how did that EvE Exec, (the total moron IMO) coin that phrase. The people that don't like our game,(meaning EvE) and chose not to play it may be a good way to loose business, or something like that.

Play the game or don't, I'm seriously sorry if you can't find something you like here.

What if my fun consists in playing with others, versus others, or anything that has "others" in it? It's an MMO, not a MSO...

 

[Jockey79]

I have never even installed EVE. I don't even know how EVE works. All i want is to feel like I play an MMO. Like the one that WAS SOLD TO ME? Every trailer screams of MMO, and wars in the galaxy, and guilds of pirates and miners and capital ships ifghting eachother... Why am I being pointed at on the forums if I ask for the things that were advertised ?

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Mighty FD here mighty FD there, maybe they need to realize that making it an MMO on steam and not actually being an MMO, is kinda silly

Do you know what an MMO is?

As you seem to misunderstand what that actually stands for - ED is an MMO in the technical sense.
Turning this in to WOW in space or EVE 2 will not help you or the game.

This is a "reboot" of an older game, if you never played the older game, then you have no idea what this is - the older game is free in the FD store, get it, play it - learn something.
Then when you understand what ED is, think about what people keep asking for and how that fits in to the Elite franchise/ universe (you'll see, a lot doesn't fit).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

All i want is to feel like I play an MMO. Like the one that WAS SOLD TO ME? Every trailer screams of MMO, and wars in the galaxy, and guilds of pirates and miners and capital ships ifghting eachother...

Mighty FD here mighty FD there, maybe they need to realize that making it an MMO on steam and not actually being an MMO, is kinda silly

What if my fun consists in playing with others, versus others, or anything that has "others" in it? It's an MMO, not a MSO...

I agree a few of the trailers do not show a total representation of elite gameplay BUT loads of games do that. (WOW springs to mind).

but, what trailer have you seen which shows all the ships being shot at are human? What ever mode you play in, outside of a few specific areas the majority of ships you see will be AI. this is by design and it has always been this way.

Also.... is there some set in stone definition of MMO? I see MMO as a very broad term, much like FPS or RPG.

Elite is Massive, its Multiplayer and its Online. therefore it ticks the boxes imo. WarThunder and WoT are both marketed as MMOs

Elite has never advertised having player controlled guilds. 1.3 brings what (I hope) is as close to that as we are gonna get.

 

[SteveLaw]

What if my fun consists in playing with others, versus others, or anything that has "others" in it? It's an MMO, not a MSO...

If the way you play conflicts with the way others play then you should form a group with others who play your way. Just as Mobius have done. Then you get to play with others who want to play the same way as you.

 

[nedeaalex]

Do you know what an MMO is?

As you seem to misunderstand what that actually stands for - ED is an MMO in the technical sense.
Turning this in to WOW in space or EVE 2 will not help you or the game.

This is a "reboot" of an older game, if you never played the older game, then you have no idea what this is - the older game is free in the FD store, get it, play it - learn something.
Then when you understand what ED is, think about what people keep asking for and how that fits in to the Elite franchise/ universe (you'll see, a lot doesn't fit).

I know how the old game is, and i played it a bit. I enjoy Elite dont get me wrong, but it feels like Im in a desert. It's a cool desert, but there is no one ever here because everybody hides in Solo, and influences CG's (and probably Powers too)

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I agree a few of the trailers do not show a total representation of elite gameplay BUT loads of games do that. (WOW springs to mind).

but, what trailer have you seen which shows all the ships being shot at are human? What ever mode you play in, outside of a few specific areas the majority of ships you see will be AI. this is by design and it has always been this way.

Also.... is there some set in stone definition of MMO? I see MMO as a very broad term, much like FPS or RPG.

Elite is Massive, its Multiplayer and its Online. therefore it ticks the boxes imo. WarThunder and WoT are both marketed as MMOs

Elite has never advertised having player controlled guilds. 1.3 brings what (I hope) is as close to that as we are gonna get.

No it's amssive Online, not multiplayer. Multiplayer would be if we would all see eachother in the world. You can't. Pirate jobs exist in the game. But does a pirate actually have something to pirate on ??? Idk i never tried it, but i have never seen a pirate either, so what's the point of Open anymore. Just make it go away already, since everybody hides in Solo and "cheats" for CG

 

[SteveLaw]

I know how the old game is, and i played it a bit. I enjoy Elite dont get me wrong, but it feels like Im in a desert. It's a cool desert, but there is no one ever here because everybody hides in Solo, and influences CG's (and probably Powers too)

If players "hide" in Solo then it's because a lack of responsible, consensual PvP has driven them there but not everyone in Solo is "hiding".

 

[nedeaalex]

If the way you play conflicts with the way others play then you should form a group with others who play your way. Just as Mobius have done. Then you get to play with others who want to play the same way as you.

No advertisement told me I have to make a group with 10 people, to actually be able to play and have fun PVP-ing. Also you have to keep the goup on right? Like your PC has to be on ? Idk I might be mistaken, point is, "Wing trailer"- end of story. None of that actually happens :|

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If players "hide" in Solo then it's because a lack of responsible, consensual PvP has driven them there but not everyone in Solo is "hiding".

And so we just hide ? If people came to Solo from Open,, it means they originally wanted to play Open. So instead of just making everybody go to Solo, should FD not give players incentive to play Open. Otherwise what's the point of it?

 

[SteveLaw]

No advertisement told me I have to make a group with 10 people, to actually be able to play and have fun PVP-ing. Also you have to keep the goup on right? Like your PC has to be on ? Idk I might be mistaken, point is, "Wing trailer"- end of story. None of that actually happens :|

No it didn't, I don't see any advertisements telling me not to murder other people in real life either. No you don't need to be on for others to join your group. Which part of "Wing Trailer" never actually happens? It's dramatised, and many argue focused too much on only combat, but all of it is actually possible as far as I know.

 

[nedeaalex]

No it didn't, I don't see any advertisements telling me not to murder other people in real life either. No you don't need to be on for others to join your group. Which part of "Wing Trailer" never actually happens? It's dramatised, and many argue focused too much on only combat, but all of it is actually possible as far as I know.

Yes, just that pirates never actually gank you(human pirates), since tehre is almost nobody in Open. Also unless you have friends(i do and we play in wings, but it's hard with all the downsides), nobody will help you or join your wing. Trust me i have been to RES sites. Sometimes ytou see people,, so I invite them in a wing, so that we don't just steal kills from each other. They don't even talk to me. You know why? Cuz you get less money in a wing, and nobody likes less money now do we?

 

[Jockey79]

@nedeaalex

Groups remain even if all players log off for the night, and you can set them to public join or request to join - so you can filter who joins the group (like Mobius does)

Also, as you seem to want to ignore it....

David Braben: It is important that players enjoy the experience. We are writing this game for ourselves, and the fun of the game is the most important thing. Player-player encounters should be interesting, and part of this is the ability to hide - whether from other players or AIs.
Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation.

That is from an interview from a year ago (video linked below).

Also as I have not posted it for a few pages;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

So, by the game design and by what DB says - this is a co-op game, with a bit of "discouraged" PvP.

And, by the way - "cheating" is a strong accusation - I hope you can back that up with proof, as accusing me of "cheating" for using the provided modes (intended feature of the game), is a sure way to get myself and to get other people who use the modes complaining you're making inflammatory remarks and trying to troll the forums.

 

[SteveLaw]

Yes, just that pirates never actually gank you(human pirates), since tehre is almost nobody in Open. Also unless you have friends(i do and we play in wings, but it's hard with all the downsides), nobody will help you or join your wing. Trust me i have been to RES sites. Sometimes ytou see people,, so I invite them in a wing, so that we don't just steal kills from each other. They don't even talk to me. You know why? Cuz you get less money in a wing, and nobody likes less money now do we?

I'm sorry you can't find anyone to wing with you but personally I often wing up with friends. We do it for the fun not for the money, I'm not really interested in min/maxing Elite.

 

[SteveLaw]

And so we just hide ? If people came to Solo from Open,, it means they originally wanted to play Open. So instead of just making everybody go to Solo, should FD not give players incentive to play Open. Otherwise what's the point of it?

The only incentive for a lot of Solo players would be guaranteed meaningful, responsible and consensual PvP. They aren't going to be tempted into, or back into, Open just because of higher payouts or similar incentives, because that isn't why they play Solo.

 

[W0OCQCK]

What if my fun consists in playing with others, versus others, or anything that has "others" in it? It's an MMO, not a MSO...

You have no right to dictate to others how they play there game. You can't and should not ever be able to force anyone to play your way. This is really basic stuff man. If you can't grasp it I can't help ya. The game was sold with three modes. It's gonna be ok. Just go along now and play in the mode you like. Quit trying to force anyone to do it "YOUR WAY".

PS, Check your router settings if your not seeing anyone. Head over to Lesti or Lave. Your ping time might need to be tuned.

 

[nedeaalex]

You have no right to dictate to others how they play there game. You can't and should not ever be able to force anyone to play your way. This is really basic stuff man. If you can't grasp it I can't help ya. The game was sold with three modes. It's gonna be ok. Just go along now and play in the mode you like. Quit trying to force anyone to do it "YOUR WAY".

PS, Check your router settings if your not seeing anyone. Head over to Lesti or Lave. Your ping time might need to be tuned.

I can grasp that. What I can't grasp is why I'm being punished with less money for grouping in wings. Why peaople in Solo get to influence my experience in Open, where i actualy go through trouble to gain ranks in a CG, and they just go solo and boom! No risk, and max profit. Also the game was sold with a hardcore mode(ironman) and i can't see it anywhere? Also(lots of also's), FD seem to actually go towards the PVP-ish way, so don't blame me for actually speaking my thoughts, and FD listening to that (they clearly stated they invite us to PVP in Open in Powers,, which is what me and many others wanted).

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The only incentive for a lot of Solo players would be guaranteed meaningful, responsible and consensual PvP. They aren't going to be tempted into, or back into, Open just because of higher payouts or similar incentives, because that isn't why they play Solo.

Yeah and why do you have to point at me for asking FD to increase punishment for Pirates? Instead of arguing with me, when we are actually on the same page here, maybe join me ? Yes i want responsible PVP too, but with the current repercussions for mindless-PVP, that is simply not possible. I am asking FD to look into that, and you guys jump me for asking something that you also want, just because im an Open player,, and I don't support your Solo ?

 

[nedeaalex]

@nedeaalex

Groups remain even if all players log off for the night, and you can set them to public join or request to join - so you can filter who joins the group (like Mobius does)

Also, as you seem to want to ignore it....



That is from an interview from a year ago (video linked below).

Also as I have not posted it for a few pages;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

So, by the game design and by what DB says - this is a co-op game, with a bit of "discouraged" PvP.

And, by the way - "cheating" is a strong accusation - I hope you can back that up with proof, as accusing me of "cheating" for using the provided modes (intended feature of the game), is a sure way to get myself and to get other people who use the modes complaining you're making inflammatory remarks and trying to troll the forums.

Well i have never met griefers, cuz you don't meet many people anyway, but FD are clearly not doing a good job in containing them since people whine on Reddit and here all day. Also, we were promised Ironman, no sightings of that.

DISCLAIMER: I did not, at any point, say i want everybody in Open, and **** Solo. All i'm saying is FD need to restrain those griefers from actually doing so much damage to the community. Also I am not saying Solo players should not be able to participate in CG's, it's just very awkward and silly how you can be in the same spot as I am, do the same CG, on the opposite side for example, and I have no ability to stop you. This is supposed to be Intergalactic war(in some CG's of course not in all, we don't want EVE here), but it actually is : who can stay in solo and grind faster than other people going in Solo. The problem is not the players that always play Solo, those are fine. The problem is the ones that go to Solo just to gain an advantage over Open players, for this sole purpose. Also Wings are completely broken and the share you get for helping a trader is just a joke. How are we supposed to incourage interaction, if we actually give people in groups less money and less incentive to play together. Diablo 3 has a nice system to that, NPC's get harder the more you are in a party,, but also give better rewards. Like it is just now,m there is no need to play in Wings anyway, it's just a means of knowing where your friends are, and in the very very very rare case they get attacked by a player(cuz NPC's are easy kills), you can insta-teleport to them anyway xD. You see how broken this is from my point of view. Yes Elite is an old game, and the Singleplayer component works perfectly fine. Cuz they did have 20 years to polish that. but multiplayer need a lot of work, and unless we, the community talk,, they have no idea what is broken and what is not. Do you think Dota2, LOL, CSGO, or any other game ever that has balances and patches don't listen to their community. No they do! When people say something is too powerfull, or whatever, they patch it. Many here were asking for guilds,, we got Powers. That thread as you can see is dead now. This one is still up,, because of the ability to "cheat"(not really cheat,, more like cheat the system) and go to Solo. Tell me, how would you feel, if IRL,, someone would just be invisible, eating your food for example? Or fighting a war against invisible people? Is it even possible to win that ? I think not...