The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14346-Star-Citizen-HOTAS-Poll

Also a cool little short film I found on the RSI forums: www.erikwernquist.com/wanderers/

http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/stop-funding-star-citizen

He makes some good points. Primarily that development problems don't get solved just by throwing money at them.

That article caused a little stir on the forums (even on the tenton comment section as well), where people claim he got his facts wrong. Edit: Damn, when I checked yesterday before I went to bed Manzes was not there, now he has made like 50 replies haha.
 
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That article caused a little stir on the forums (even on the tenton comment section as well), where people claim he got his facts wrong.
That is true. Several "facts" are wrong in this article. But this is the norm with such critics, they seldom get their facts straight. It's also funny how he call us backers fools, when he's writing this article uninformed of the subject. As an Editor and Journalist he should honor his work reputation and do a good job instead of this.
 
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rolling

Banned
I heard they adding space pets now - what is this The Sims 5 "pets in space" lol? Joke aside, it never hurts to have some small additional thing in the game, but shouldn't they work on PU or something?

That's my concern too. Nothing against pets in space - i even would like to see them in ED. But before talking and thinking about those things CIG should focus on the PU first.
 
The stats also show that only about 8% (64,455) of the 540,443 players eligible to play Arena Commander are actually doing so.

That seems to be a very low amount, I wonder what the reason is?
IMO, because it gets boring really quick. Not trying to bash SC (I'm quite looking forward to the final game), but Vanduul Swarm is like watching paint dry. And no interest in the PvP, because my lowly Aurora doesn't stand a chance vs those Hornets, 300's, etc. (yeah, go ahead, tell me it's because I suck as a pilot... I already know that ;) )
 
(yeah, go ahead, tell me it's because I suck as a pilot... I already know that ;) )

Its because you suck as a pilot


Seriously though things should start to look better for you pretty soon. I guarantee it

That's my concern too. Nothing against pets in space - i even would like to see them in ED. But before talking and thinking about those things CIG should focus on the PU first.

Yes because the guy in Montreal working on pets is the same guy in Austin working on the PU which is also the same guy building ships and also the same guy working on Squadron42.
Honestly how does this one guy get it all done?
 
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So AC 1.0 out this month, pretty good news. That includes multicrew ships right?

Do we have a list of changes that will be included in AC 1.0?

I think multicrews is AC 2.0.

What on earth are multicrewed ships going to do in AC?... just man the turrets and shoot at NPCs ?
It seems kind of pointless.
 
http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/stop-funding-star-citizen

He makes some good points. Primarily that development problems don't get solved just by throwing money at them.
That article caused a little stir on the forums (even on the tenton comment section as well), where people claim he got his facts wrong. Edit: Damn, when I checked yesterday before I went to bed Manzes was not there, now he has made like 50 replies haha.

Hey may have gotten some details wrong, but the thing is, those details have very little bearing on his analysis. One example is with regards to the supposed external investors. Sure the investors were dropped in favor of a fully crowdfunded game, but they were dropped long before the game even reached half the current amount. If, at that point, they were confident they could make the game exclusively on crowdfunding, then why put so many resources towards drawing in more funding, especially if it compounds the need for more funding? It's a CFO's financial nightmare.

But more importantly, why bother dropping the investors at all? CIG stated from the start that they wanted to make a game that followed their "vision," uncompromised by external interests, such as publishers and investors. Why would they have enlisted these investors in the first place, unless they weren't interested in some sort of vested control in the development of the game? (And this is what signed contracts are for, to establish the amount of influence that an investor would have.) So in the end, they guarantee that the investors have a very limited amount of influence, and as such, there is no reason to ditch them later on. Either CIG was making misleading statements about their initial financial game coverage by implying that they had investors as a safety net when they had none, or their initial plan for the game wasn't as free of external influence as they had claimed it would be.

So despite the author of the article not being informed in a few particular aspects, the most important probably being the investor dilemma, it actually has little bearing on the veracity of his article. In fact, if he knew a bit more about the financial situation, he'd find it even more disturbing. (And that's not even going into the management of development, which is a whole other can of worms.)
 
Hey may have gotten some details wrong, but the thing is, those details have very little bearing on his analysis. One example is with regards to the supposed external investors. Sure the investors were dropped in favor of a fully crowdfunded game, but they were dropped long before the game even reached half the current amount. If, at that point, they were confident they could make the game exclusively on crowdfunding, then why put so many resources towards drawing in more funding, especially if it compounds the need for more funding? It's a CFO's financial nightmare.

But more importantly, why bother dropping the investors at all? CIG stated from the start that they wanted to make a game that followed their "vision," uncompromised by external interests, such as publishers and investors. Why would they have enlisted these investors in the first place, unless they weren't interested in some sort of vested control in the development of the game? (And this is what signed contracts are for, to establish the amount of influence that an investor would have.) So in the end, they guarantee that the investors have a very limited amount of influence, and as such, there is no reason to ditch them later on. Either CIG was making misleading statements about their initial financial game coverage by implying that they had investors as a safety net when they had none, or their initial plan for the game wasn't as free of external influence as they had claimed it would be.

So despite the author of the article not being informed in a few particular aspects, the most important probably being the investor dilemma, it actually has little bearing on the veracity of his article. In fact, if he knew a bit more about the financial situation, he'd find it even more disturbing. (And that's not even going into the management of development, which is a whole other can of worms.)

Big investers might come with specific demands. These are done with some high posible chnce of return of investment. Often a demand to go for console. Bigger market better chanse to get huge volume sales as a larger target market.

Crowed funding was also a means of prove of demand in the market. For investor commitment. Instead of delivering proof it was so big sucses that those investors with there demands aren't needed.

Now it is what does the majority want.
 
Big investers might come with specific demands. These are done with some high posible chnce of return of investment. Often a demand to go for console. Bigger market better chanse to get huge volume sales as a larger target market.

Crowed funding was also a means of prove of demand in the market. For investor commitment. Instead of delivering proof it was so big sucses that those investors with there demands aren't needed.

Now it is what does the majority want.

This is the reason Elite is shipping in 2 weeks. Not because the game is done and ready but because the investors want their money back.
 
Big investers might come with specific demands. These are done with some high posible chnce of return of investment. Often a demand to go for console. Bigger market better chanse to get huge volume sales as a larger target market.

Crowed funding was also a means of prove of demand in the market. For investor commitment. Instead of delivering proof it was so big sucses that those investors with there demands aren't needed.

Now it is what does the majority want.

I'm not sure I understand the logic here. If the investors came with demands, then why were they even considered in the first place? And just because you are able to show that your project will deliver a high ROI through crowdfunding, that certainly won't change the fact that the game will make more if it's developed for a mass market (consoles, homogenized gameplay, etc). Either your investors are willing to take the light-handed approach (provided it is proven to them through crowdfunding that the game will still give them sufficient ROI), or they insist on expanding to the mass market. If it's the latter, then why bother considering them in the first place? Otherwise, if you can get that guarantee from the investor (which is why I mentioned contracts), then there's no need to dump them.

Actually, there is one reason to dump them, and that is to avoid the financial commitments, such as paying off the investment, that come with investors. If that's the case, then dumping them when CIG did, back before the $20-million mark, makes sense. Why have financial obligations when you can focus on the game? But in that case, the argument of the Ten Ton Hammer article is all the more sound, especially now that CIG is at $60-million and have no obligations to investors. Minor article inaccuracies like this one are simply nitpicks. They'll cause the author grief (especially considering the community), but it makes his statements no less true.
 

Mu77ley

Volunteer Moderator
This is the reason Elite is shipping in 2 weeks. Not because the game is done and ready but because the investors want their money back.

Nonsense.

The investors (aka shareholders, the company raised money by floating on the London Stock Exchange as well as using their own money in addition to the Kickstarter money) don't care about individual products, all they care about is the company's profit/loss margins and whether it meets the targets that the directors set.

Elite: Dangerous is only one project that Frontier are developing, some of which have not been announced yet because they are for 3rd parties and are under NDAs.
 
For me it makes absolute sense dumping investors and going totally crowd funded. In order to define a project plan you need to define your deliverables. Continuously adding stretch goals must mean your deliverables are permanently changing. How can you set a budget, milestones? Surely that means inevitable rework and a sliding timescale for release? I am an accountant by trade and if I was an investor I would be very concerned, so for the development scope CIG are looking at it makes no sense to have investors on board.

In the case of ED putting my investor hat on I wouldn't be worrried at this juncture. As of early November the development costs had already been almost recovered against KS and advanced orders so I would expect by now the development to be in profit or close to it. Investors love a sure thing so I suspect the last thing they would want is to withdraw money! FD have a project plan for ED and clear milestones and deliverables, some might argue that the deliverables are less than would be desirable but that is a personal reflection. The reason FD have to deliver is in regard to revenue recognition. Revenue can only be shown as sales when its realised. For pre-orders that is at release. FD are a listed company so this is a big issue as without being able to recognise the revenue their profit and loss will look awful.
 
Minor article inaccuracies like this one are simply nitpicks.
No, they're not minor. About the investor thing he totally missed the point and could not state the truth. Simply bad research. You are also rambling around the investor issue without knowing what really happened, even if CR has told us that many times.
 
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According to the monthly report, Illfonic is going to implement a GRAPPLING HOOK.
Here are some more information about it:
The artists have been working on more weapon and gadget assets. This includes touching up the current items along with creating some new ones as well. One of those is a grappling hook of sorts which should come in pretty handy during zero-g…

 
No, they're not minor. About the investor thing he totally missed the point and could not state the truth. Simply bad research. You are also rambling around the investor issue without knowing what really happened, even if CR has told us that many times.

I'm fairly certain I know all that was made public, but please, feel free to enlighten me. As for my supposed rambling, I'm trying to find an explanation here, since I do not take anything CIG says at face value. Forgive me for being skeptical if what a company claims doesn't logically coincide with what they do, nor with what I know and have experienced of game development, and of software development in general.
 
Well, you can either believe what CR says himself about the investor deal or you can make something up which you believe better. But I'm only interested in the first one.

Investors were never signed up in any contract. It was an intentional agreement between CR and a few selected investors, that said that if he could get $2M from crowd funding they were willing to put in the rest, upto about $20M. CR chose to not get the investor money when he saw the tempo money was pouring in. He was on the fence for some time, keeping the investors warm, then he told them no deal.

So there was no dumping, just no contract signing.
 
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I'm not sure I understand the logic here. If the investors came with demands, then why were they even considered in the first place? And just because you are able to show that your project will deliver a high ROI through crowdfunding, that certainly won't change the fact that the game will make more if it's developed for a mass market (consoles, homogenized gameplay, etc). Either your investors are willing to take the light-handed approach (provided it is proven to them through crowdfunding that the game will still give them sufficient ROI), or they insist on expanding to the mass market. If it's the latter, then why bother considering them in the first place? Otherwise, if you can get that guarantee from the investor (which is why I mentioned contracts), then there's no need to dump them.

Actually, there is one reason to dump them, and that is to avoid the financial commitments, such as paying off the investment, that come with investors. If that's the case, then dumping them when CIG did, back before the $20-million mark, makes sense. Why have financial obligations when you can focus on the game? But in that case, the argument of the Ten Ton Hammer article is all the more sound, especially now that CIG is at $60-million and have no obligations to investors. Minor article inaccuracies like this one are simply nitpicks. They'll cause the author grief (especially considering the community), but it makes his statements no less true.
David Braben & chriss Roberts and many more are Game industry veterans. And have dealt with publisher and investors many times. So so far I recall the might have pitch there game to publisher many times. Both have there specific story and why they tried crowed funding. In hind sight they are both got there funds.
 

rolling

Banned
Yes because the guy in Montreal working on pets is the same guy in Austin working on the PU which is also the same guy building ships and also the same guy working on Squadron42.
Honestly how does this one guy get it all done?

The guy doing pets shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Instead they should have hired more guys doing the PU. Got it now?
:rolleyes:
 

rolling

Banned
This is the reason Elite is shipping in 2 weeks. Not because the game is done and ready but because the investors want their money back.

Quite strange how some SC fans try to construct excuses out of thin air for why ED will be released in 2 weeks and SC will not.
Hm.
:rolleyes:
 
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