The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

[Hurricane Moon]

right I have not read through this,but do we have a new thing to play in SC now?...we have a actuall map and stars to explore now?...I have not played since arcorp module.

I love ED aswell,but SC just ticks all the boxes of what I want from a space sim opera

someone please tell me we can fly around freely now?

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

So this lawsuit stuff that's floating around about SC... probably old news... regarding what the Escapist printed...

 

[Voivod]

So this lawsuit stuff that's floating around about SC... probably old news... regarding what the Escapist printed...

It was just bla, CIG didn't do anything afaik.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

I am still pondering with purchasing the Constellation Aquila package, the thing that is holding me off is that if 1000's of players are going to play SC and 60% have voted they want to explore, Is every thing going to be found in a matter of months, if only a few 100 systems are going to be built ? Or am i missing something.

 

[Neo-ST]

Any news on CIG's claim that they will sue The Escapist magazine?

 

[Voivod]

I am still pondering with purchasing the Constellation Aquila package, the thing that is holding me off is that if 1000's of players are going to play SC and 60% have voted they want to explore, Is every thing going to be found in a matter of months, if only a few 100 systems are going to be built ? Or am i missing something.

If you mean by exploring systems like in ED, I think everything will be explored in a matter of days.
100 systems for 1+ million of players is nothing

 

[xyphic]

Then they get offended when people call them cultists

When you have enough skin in the game it's natural to have an emotional bias toward the thing you're backing. Many of us here (including me) have been guilty of it regarding Frontier and ED, almost taking negativity as a personal insult. Of all the Kickstarters and companies I've followed though, I'd say that SC has one of the more... dedicated... fanbases.

The latest craze appears to be taking aim at Illfonic for the failure of Star Marine to show up on time, citing that they weren't able to "keep up with" Chris Roberts or that they don't have the technical competence to pull off the vision. They're all very happy that it's now being done in-house where CIG's amazing developers will suddenly make it all better. What they fail to realise is that CIG's development team is no better or worse than many others around the globe. They'll have some very good developers and they'll have some duds. What's really interesting is that part of CIG's propaganda* involves showing how their developers find and fix hard-to-diagnose bugs; this gives the backers confidence that they have built a team of excellence.

* I know that 'propaganda' is a strong word, but it's how I would describe much of their output. Rather than really being open about their development practices, they offer a carefully controlled window into their world. Rather than an honest appraisal of where they're at, the focus is on the problems they've *had* and how they've solved them, rather than the problems they currently face and what that means for the project. I'm not saying that other developers are any better, but most other developers don't claim to be open about their development practices.

 

[Virgil Tracy]

right I have not read through this,but do we have a new thing to play in SC now?...we have a actuall map and stars to explore now?...I have not played since arcorp module.

The map is not in the game, it's just a website-based app.

someone please tell me we can fly around freely now?

Sorry, no

- - - Updated - - -

I am still pondering with purchasing the Constellation Aquila package, the thing that is holding me off is that if 1000's of players are going to play SC and 60% have voted they want to explore, Is every thing going to be found in a matter of months, if only a few 100 systems are going to be built ? Or am i missing something.

You're missing that there won't be "a few 100 systems". The $6 million stretch goal (back in Nov 2012) was for 100 systems. When they will all be in the game is anybody's guess. I do think exploration will be quite limited by this.

 

[ianw]

It's difficult to see how with so few systems there will be any exploration in the sense of discovering planetary bodies and so forth no-one else has.

I guess they will either come up with some other definition of exploration at some point that fits whatever it is they think they can offer or if they get PG working properly it might come later - who knows?

 

[Virgil Tracy]

The latest craze appears to be taking aim at Illfonic for the failure of Star Marine to show up on time, citing that they weren't able to "keep up with" Chris Roberts or that they don't have the technical competence to pull off the vision. They're all very happy that it's now being done in-house where CIG's amazing developers will suddenly make it all better.

The FPS we saw a year ago from Illfonic looked better than the recent work from CIG. I think their work had to be scrapped as it wasn't compatible with the late switch to 64 bit stuff and they were dropped and hung out to dry as a scapegoat. CIG are now redoing it again (familiar pattern here) and there's no ETA on when backers will be playing it.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

The FPS we saw a year ago from Illfonic looked better than the recent work from CIG. I think their work had to be scrapped as it wasn't compatible with the late switch to 64 bit stuff and they were dropped and hung out to dry as a scapegoat. CIG are now redoing it again (familiar pattern here) and there's no ETA on when backers will be playing it.

This was one of the things that was being alleged in the Escapist magazine by ex-devs... what someone else called "bla." That stuff was being dumped and rewritten.

 

[Toumal]

It's difficult to see how with so few systems there will be any exploration in the sense of discovering planetary bodies and so forth no-one else has.

I guess they will either come up with some other definition of exploration at some point that fits whatever it is they think they can offer or if they get PG working properly it might come later - who knows?

I remember them saying that exploration will amount to "random encounters" that produce some sort of loot. So basically like Destiny or, to a lesser degree, the loathed USS we have in Elite right now. Except in the latter you can at least actually go out and *discover* new places.

The FPS we saw a year ago from Illfonic looked better than the recent work from CIG. I think their work had to be scrapped as it wasn't compatible with the late switch to 64 bit stuff and they were dropped and hung out to dry as a scapegoat. CIG are now redoing it again (familiar pattern here) and there's no ETA on when backers will be playing it.

I was actually really feeling optimistic about the FPS portion when I saw it back then. It felt like real progress and like something that's actually fun to play. Not getting the same tight and polished feeling from the later demos sadly.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

To the ones who claim Star Citizen is not open development.

--

Star Citizen Open Development:

50-70 page monthly digital behind the scenes development book. The content of which gets released on their website a few weeks later. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15005-WIP-Star-Marine-Armor-Part-II)

Occasional full blown design posts covering a lot of aspects of in game design every month or two months. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14522-Star-Citizen-Careers-Mining)

1 Letter from the Chairman once every month or two outlining important events or things that need to be talked about with backers. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15007-Letter-From-The-Chairman)

1-2 Full of content Lore posts every week. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/15029-Plain-Truth-Bishops-Betrayal, https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15032-Portfolio-InterDimension-Software)

1 Development Progress Update on Star Citizen Alpha and Star Marine every week. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15036-Weekly-Development-Update)

4 videos every week:

1 video about 20-40 minutes long focused on answering 10 questions from the community for either the CEO, Writers, Producers. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkaYT3_vXWQ)

1 video about 20-50 minutes long focused on giving studio updates from all CIG Studios, talking about the community and giving an developer interview. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-mifFQpeiw)

1 video livestream about 2 hours long that informally answers questions during the livestream and talks casually with backers. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqo4WMmyE2g)

1 video about solving bugs in the latest Star Citizen build about 5-15 minutes long. (Example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSIXl4Ug3-s)

1 Monthly CIG Studio Report which is 40-60 pages long and covers development updates from all CIG Studios in a in-depth level. From Art to Engineering to DevOps and QA. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report)

100-200 Developer question answers on the forum every month. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker)

--

This and include the many conventions CIG goes to revealing new tech they have made and sharing their progress with fans and drinking beers with them.

 

[Zargor]

To the ones who claim Star Citizen is not open development.

--

Star Citizen Open Development:

...
100-200 Developer question answers on the forum every month. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker)
...

Can I point out that neither Ben Lesnick nor Disco Lando are developers, also megan! is no longer with CIG due to the axing of the Austin office.

 

[Knightshark]

To the ones who claim Star Citizen is not open development.
[...]

Well, there is a difference between development and marketing. Yes, there certainly is a lot of marketing material coming out very regularly. That is not development. The bulk of the material is just teaser, with a lot of if's and maybe's attached, showing concepts and appealing to the viewers imagination. This is what drives the funding. The core mechanics and their implementation are rarely addressed (from what i have see, which is just a tiny bit because i am not interested in the marketing & ship selling stuff), just look at the discussion about the FM - a KEY part of the game.

 

[Earthshine]

Spoiler

To the ones who claim Star Citizen is not open development.

--

Star Citizen Open Development:

50-70 page monthly digital behind the scenes development book. The content of which gets released on their website a few weeks later. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15005-WIP-Star-Marine-Armor-Part-II)

Occasional full blown design posts covering a lot of aspects of in game design every month or two months. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14522-Star-Citizen-Careers-Mining)

1 Letter from the Chairman once every month or two outlining important events or things that need to be talked about with backers. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15007-Letter-From-The-Chairman)

1-2 Full of content Lore posts every week. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/15029-Plain-Truth-Bishops-Betrayal, https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15032-Portfolio-InterDimension-Software)

1 Development Progress Update on Star Citizen Alpha and Star Marine every week. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15036-Weekly-Development-Update)

4 videos every week:

1 video about 20-40 minutes long focused on answering 10 questions from the community for either the CEO, Writers, Producers. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkaYT3_vXWQ)

1 video about 20-50 minutes long focused on giving studio updates from all CIG Studios, talking about the community and giving an developer interview. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-mifFQpeiw)

1 video livestream about 2 hours long that informally answers questions during the livestream and talks casually with backers. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqo4WMmyE2g)

1 video about solving bugs in the latest Star Citizen build about 5-15 minutes long. (Example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSIXl4Ug3-s)

1 Monthly CIG Studio Report which is 40-60 pages long and covers development updates from all CIG Studios in a in-depth level. From Art to Engineering to DevOps and QA. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report)

100-200 Developer question answers on the forum every month. (Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker)

--

This and include the many conventions CIG goes to revealing new tech they have made and sharing their progress with fans and drinking beers with them.

Think you've missed the point.

The point made - by xyphic most recently - was that everything revealed is carefully constructed to achieve a certain affect. Bug squashing...it's a very positive look at problems. They describe a certain bug and then show how they have fixed it. It's reassuring. However the question raised is: how is this effectively any different from other community relation approaches undertaken by e.g. publishers? The difference as I see it is purely regularity and quantity of content, but it is - it could be argued - not the paradigm shift that it has been made out to be. As far as I'm concerned the genius here is that they behave no differently from publishers - because publishers behave as they do for a reason, not just because they feel like it - and yet have managed to convince a large number of people that they are different simply because they say they are. It's brilliant really, hat off to their marketing approach.

To be clear I'm not unhappy about how they have done this, it has been undeniably successful. But I still think it's a very clever form of manipulation.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

I am still pondering with purchasing the Constellation Aquila package, the thing that is holding me off is that if 1000's of players are going to play SC and 60% have voted they want to explore, Is every thing going to be found in a matter of months, if only a few 100 systems are going to be built ? Or am i missing something.

I would recommend you to get the cheapest 45 dollar Aurora package. The exploration mechanics are still not finalized since the game needs to get a little further ahead in development for them to do that. There is information out there that talks about how exploration will work. Tony Zurovec is heading that design and he is a genius so I expect him to make very good things happen.

This post here has a navigation section where you can find most of the information already out there. Link: https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ration-in-star-citizen-what-we-know-so-far/p1

In the beginning many unexplored hand crafted systems will be hidden and they will be charted by only a few very lucky pioneers. After a while Star Citizen will switch to Procedural Generation for unexplored systems but either way in Star Citizen discovering a new solar system is the biggest thing imaginable and it will be a very rare occurrence. It will also resonate within the universe with news and the UEE or other alien factions. Most of Star Citizens pioneering will be within the solar systems already there.

right I have not read through this,but do we have a new thing to play in SC now?...we have a actuall map and stars to explore now?...I have not played since arcorp module.

I love ED aswell,but SC just ticks all the boxes of what I want from a space sim opera

someone please tell me we can fly around freely now?

There is no free form gameplay in Star Citizen at the moment. Here are a few images to explain what is in Star Citizen now and what will be included when Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 releases.

Star Citizen Alpha 1.3 (Current Version)

Spoiler

Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 (Upcoming Version earliest end of this month latest end of next month)

Spoiler

--

Well, there is a difference between development and marketing. Yes, there certainly is a lot of marketing material coming out very regularly. That is not development. The bulk of the material is just teaser, with a lot of if's and maybe's attached, showing concepts and appealing to the viewers imagination. This is what drives the funding. The core mechanics and their implementation are rarely addressed (from what i have see, which is just a tiny bit because i am not interested in the marketing & ship selling stuff), just look at the discussion about the FM - a KEY part of the game.

If follow the development closely most of it are development updates and not marketing. The FM discussions are being taken in to consideration hence the FM 2.0 work. They also do respond to the community hence the 100-200 Dev answers every month on the forums.

Think you've missed the point.

If you follow the development posts you can obviously see it's about development updates. Actual updates and no marketing. The FM discussion is being taken to heart hence FM 2.0. They are responding and reading the community that's why shared the Dev Answers too which are ranging from 100 to 200 every month.

The point made - by xyphic most recently - was that everything revealed is carefully constructed to achieve a certain affect. Bug squashing...it's a very positive look at problems. They describe a certain bug and then show how they have fixed it. It's reassuring. However the question raised is: how is this effectively any different from other community relation approaches undertaken by e.g. publishers? The difference as I see it is purely regularity and quantity of content, but it is - it could be argued - not the paradigm shift that it has been made out to be. As far as I'm concerned the genius here is that they behave no differently from publishers - because publishers behave as they do for a reason, not just because they feel like it - and yet have managed to convince a large number of people that they are different simply because they say they are. It's brilliant really, hat off to their marketing approach.

To be clear I'm not unhappy about how they have done this, it has been undeniably successful. But I still think it's a very clever form of manipulation.

To be honest I seriously don't see how actual development updates or studio reports of the recent builds they are working on is in any way marketing. They are just keeping people updated to a depth that is unprecedented.

Example: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report

 

[marx]

Mr. Nowak, you appear to be re-defining the term "open development" here. Star Citizen's development is not open because developing the game is of course not open to all: you can't see the source code nor can you contribute to the project. "Open development" has long been accepted as a term for "open-source development". Here's a handy Wikipedia article if you're not familiar with the concept.

Of course, CIG does output an impressive amount of marketing material and information, but that does not change how their development works. Developing Star Citizen is of course not open to all.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

Mr. Nowak, you appear to be re-defining the term "open development" here. Star Citizen's development is not open because developing the game is of course not open to all: you can't see the source code nor can you contribute to the project. "Open development" has long been accepted as a term for "open-source development". Here's a handy Wikipedia article if you're not familiar with the concept.

Of course, CIG does output an impressive amount of marketing material and information, but that does not change how their development works. Developing Star Citizen is of course not open to all.

There is a difference between open development and open source development. Star Citizen is open development because it share's it's development.

[video=youtube;egs6OfzXV20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs6OfzXV20[/video]

--

igdamontreal Turbulent "Open Development" case study

http://www.igdamontreal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/IGDA-Montreal_P2P-Notes_March15_OpenDev.pdf

 

[Skizomeuh]

Open dev