Oh, and most of the pvp crowd in SC is not too happy about this.
Surely the epic fleet-based Org battles in multi-Idris conflicts over discovery rights to newly explored jump points and star systems makes up for it though?
The Star Citizen Thread V10
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Surely the epic fleet-based Org battles in multi-Idris conflicts over discovery rights to newly explored jump points and star systems makes up for it though?
Oh, and most of the pvp crowd in SC is not too happy about this.
I can imagine! The horrors! How can you tell someone else to git gud if the game is compensating for you? :O
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
The only difference between SC and a WW2 fighter plane is that the gun convergence is done automatically, while back then the guns had to be converged by the mechanics to a given point in front of the plane.
Fixed weapons does not mean that the gun fires just straight ahead.
Real fixed weapons are always converged to a given point in a given distance in front of the plane in alliance with the used gun sight.
So SC, IMHO, has actually the correct approach to that issue. Fixed just means that they are not in a gimbal or in a turret. Simple as that.
Example: The gun convergence table for a BF 109E-3
Red: the line of sight of the gun sight
Green: 20mm MG-FF
Blue: 8mm Mauser MG17
Converged at 200meters
Here for a P-51:
And when I'm saying targeting maker, I mean the indicator of what to shoot at. Like the lead indicator. In SC they call them pips, and I can't remember what they are in elite. Pips in elite are a completely different thing.
No idea why the showed it like they did in the video. Maybe it doesnt work yet for more weapons.
Oh, and most of the pvp crowd in SC is not too happy about this.
This is also a very realistic approach for a targeting solution. The first gyro gunsights were introduced in late WW2 dy the RAF(mark I gyro sight) and the (USAAF K-14 gun sight), these gunsight offered pre-determined setting for different enemy aircraft types an later versions also had automatic lead and bullet drop indicators. The US Version was called "the ace-maker", because it could make even mediocre pilots aces.
Guess what, the
Albeit I'm am highly critic about SC/SQ 42, this isn't something to be critic of. Quite contrary, tbh.
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I can just see the credits, in order:
Director: Chris Roberts
Secondary director: Bryan Singer
Producer: Mel Gibson
Lead star: Sandi Gardner
Minor stars: Liam Neeson, Robert Wagner, Kevin Spacey
Cameos: Bill Cosby, Woody Allen
Child welfare agent: Roman Polanski.
Hollywod Liaison: Harvey Weinstein
Music: Chris Brown and R Kelly
Needless to say:
Lead antagonist: Derek Smart (gets killed by a horde of rabid Vanduul CIG-fans within twenty seconds of appearing on screen).
I can just see the credits, in order:
Director: Chris Roberts
Secondary director: Bryan Singer
Producer: Mel Gibson
Lead star: Sandi Gardner
Minor stars: Liam Neeson, Robert Wagner, Kevin Spacey
Cameos: Bill Cosby, Woody Allen
Child welfare agent: Roman Polanski.
Hollywod Liaison: Harvey Weinstein
Music: Chris Brown and R Kelly
Needless to say:
Lead antagonist: Derek Smart (gets killed by a horde of rabid Vanduul CIG-fans within twenty seconds of appearing on screen).
I want to see this movie.
Maybe Krammer from Seinfeld could be the narrator.
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I can just see the credits, in order:
Director: Chris Roberts
Secondary director: Bryan Singer
Producer: Mel Gibson
Lead star: Sandi Gardner
Minor stars: Liam Neeson, Robert Wagner, Kevin Spacey
Cameos: Bill Cosby, Woody Allen
Child welfare agent: Roman Polanski.
Hollywod Liaison: Harvey Weinstein
Music: Chris Brown and R Kelly
Needless to say:
Lead antagonist: Derek Smart (gets killed by a horde of rabid Vanduul CIG-fans within twenty seconds of appearing on screen).
More likely:
Producer: Someone Else
Director: Someone Else
Special Thanks: Chris Roberts
Original Concept: Chris Roberts
Weapons already do automatic convergence. Really, there is no such thing as "fixed" weapons in SC. If you equip a ship with all the same fixed weapon, no matter how far apart the weapons are, there will only be one targeting marker. This was already a bone of contention with some.
As example, if I throw plasma accelerators out on the "wings" on a clipper in elite there will be two separate targeting markers for close or medium range targets. The plasma accelerators are fixed and the shots go out pretty much straight ahead.
In SC, if I take a pretty big ship like a 600i, with all "fixed" laser cannons, there will only be one targeting marker. No matter how close the target is. Those "fixed" weapons are converging on the target.
Can see it here:
https://youtu.be/NjF9yAmTVT0?t=259
And when I'm saying targeting maker, I mean the indicator of what to shoot at. Like the lead indicator. In SC they call them pips, and I can't remember what they are in elite. Pips in elite are a completely different thing.
No idea why the showed it like they did in the video. Maybe it doesnt work yet for more weapons.
Oh, and most of the pvp crowd in SC is not too happy about this.
If two weapons are converged on the same point, what happens to that point as you close in toward the target?
In Elite as you say there are two target reticles, one for each weapon, at close range obviously these will be further apart because geometry.
The advantage in Elite is I'm seeing what each weapon is gimballed onto. In SC I'm seeing a single reticle which I assume is what the gimbals will *try* to slew onto - but there's no feedback as to what they are actually doing, how quickly they are slewing.
It's very simplistic but at least they've had off axis gimbals working at some point so yeah as you say it's very odd they'd only show a single centred weapon. All they are showing there is gimballing and calculating a lead. That's an afternoon's work, well known, well documented.
The only difference between SC and a WW2 fighter plane is that the gun convergence is done automatically, while back then the guns had to be converged by the mechanics to a given point in front of the plane.
Fixed weapons does not mean that the gun fires just straight ahead.
Real fixed weapons are always converged to a given point in a given distance in front of the plane in alliance with the used gun sight.
So SC, IMHO, has actually the correct approach to that issue. Fixed just means that they are not in a gimbal or in a turret. Simple as that.
Example: The gun convergence table for a BF 109E-3
Red: the line of sight of the gun sight
Green: 20mm MG-FF
Blue: 8mm Mauser MG17
Converged at 200meters
Here for a P-51:
This is also a very realistic approach for a targeting solution. The first gyro gunsights were introduced in late WW2 dy the RAF(mark I gyro sight) and the (USAAF K-14 gun sight), these gunsight offered pre-determined setting for different enemy aircraft types an later versions also had automatic lead and bullet drop indicators. The US Version was called "the ace-maker", because it could make even mediocre pilots aces.
Guess what, thepvp crowdLuftwaffe wasn't happy about it either.
Albeit I'm am highly critic about SC/SQ 42, this isn't something to be critic of. Quite contrary, tbh.
If the convergence and lead are calculated, then it's basically point and click with gimbals.
In Elite I can see the gimbal limits of each weapon and in fact how fast or slow they slew. I can also see the convergence widen as I get on top of a target. So there's a bit of moment to moment skill and depth. I might have to pull the nose ahead of the target to counter a gimballed weapon trying to catch up for example.
Gimbal and fixed weapons in Elite are balanced with dps etc. In Elite I get a reticle for a fixed weapon too.
I don't see any of this going on in SC, I see a single target reticle. They clearly haven't thought about any of this.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Is it just me or it seems SC gimbals new proposal is like Elite’s but without all the depth and balancing mechanics like chaff, heatsinks & systems temperature management, silent running, slower ship rotations vs gimbal cone (yeah, you need the right flight model for these kind of gimbals to make sense in the first place), dps vs fixed, slew times etc etc etc properly in place?
I still remember the tons of SC fan critics suggesting that ED gimbals system was zero depth or skill. Not only they were wrong to start with but also now SC is getting an even much worst “tier 0” version of what they thought ED was? I just have to lol at the karma there.
I still remember the tons of SC fan critics suggesting that ED gimbals system was zero depth or skill. Not only they were wrong to start with but also now SC is getting an even much worst “tier 0” version of what they thought ED was? I just have to lol at the karma there.
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Unbelieve all you want. This sensible addition is without question due to increasing numbers of disgruntled ED players flocking to the banner of the best space game. Surely you'd want them to make their transition phase as pleasant as possible.
It just means everyone will set maximum speed (along with comfortable mouse sensitivity) and then forget about it, since we're talking about fast shooter. What do they even think players are going to do with the slow setting that isn't possible with fast setting, shoot snails?
Another feature that makes me suspicious of: "We have nothing to do, since we're blocked in all directions, so we think up pointless improvements".
One game has gameplay design, the other has Vision™. I let you find out which has what...
We shall see. If this is just the first iteration with the most basic setup then i get it.
But to truly make it shine it needs to be affected by sensor strength, targeting distance, target IR/EM emissions and the cross section of said target.
I had though that even gimbals would have required a computer blade to function but it seems at this stage they skipped that unless they merely wanted to show how it would work in it's most basic form.
Well, you hit the spot:
- 7 years in and they're still tier-0 of basic yet foundational system
- The tier-0 works poorly, looks like it's been implemented without futureproof, intertwine ness with other systems, or even any idea of "how it should work in the end" considerations
- But fans praise the result "better than anything ever made before", or at least still give them the benefice of doubt... 7 years in.
- This applies to many, many things in SC
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
Most likely:
Producer: Quentin Tarantino
Director Quentin Tarantino
Lead star: Not Sandi Gardner
Support Actors: Vin Diesel as The Brother, Ben Affleck as The laywer
Cameos: Clint Eastwood as Agony Aunt; Kevin Costner as Cobra1984; Jet Li as sovapid; Will Ferrell as Whale #1; Adam Sandler as Whale #2
Special Guest Star: Bernie Madoff as himself
Financial accountants: Coutts Bank, IRS
Music: Ennio Morricone
Special Thanks: Chris Roberts
Original Concept: Chris Roberts
*movie guys voice on*
A story of betrayal, fraud and action across the USA and the UK. See the story of a few good men in their fight against the ultimate evil.
"For a fist full of Dollars - Answer The Call", opening December 21st, 2025. Rated PD for possibly delayed.
Waiters gonna wait.
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