The Star Citizen Thread V10

[Viajero]

Yet, people have given CIG $250M to bring his vision to life thus far. Just illustrates there is a void in the gaming world that he wants to fill.

So like I said, for a 1/4 Billion dollars, no one has stepped up to the plate. The rest is just talk...

Not sure that is really a reassuring or supporting argument. People also gave Theranos $700+ million and it didnt deliver. Its CEO is also now under several charges of fraud and has been banned from leading any kind of public companies for 10 years.

Also, unlike CIG´s $250 million, at least we know Theranos 700+ million figure is correct since it has been confirmed by the SEC. CIG´s figure so far lacks any kind of basic independent 3rd party confirmation.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Not sure that is a really a reassuring or supporting argument. People also gave Theranos $700+ million and it didnt deliver. Its CEO is also now under several charges of fraud and has been banned from leading any kind of public companies for 10 years.

Also, unlike CIG´s $250 million, at least we know Theranos 700+ million figure is correct since it has been since confirmed by the SEC. CIG´s figure so far lacks any kind of basic independent 3rd party confirmation.

Some people say it can't be a scam because CR is actually trying to deliver the product. I also don't call it a scam, at least not an intentional one. But like the Fyre festival, it can effectively be a scam when the person at the helm has no real clue about how to deliver what they have promised. So yeah, CR thinks he can deliver (maybe he can, with enough time and money), but if it fails, it is going to be branded a scam anyway.

 

[MTBFritz]

That's quite the meltdown

Yeah sorry usually I can do the "I dont care" reaction but sometimes I really get carried away. Tho I fear my efforts are completely lost as most will do the "oh noes, not another wall of text" or "just a hater" response. Shame....

 

[StuartGT]

Yeah sorry usually I can do the "I dont care" reaction but sometimes I really get carried away. Tho I fear my efforts are completely lost as most will do the "oh noes, not another wall of text" or "just a hater" response. Shame....

Just a hater tho

 

[Iron Golem]

Because none of them got the funding level that SC did...its that simple. Even ED might have space legs already if it was absolutely BOMBARDED by "donations" as Star Citizen had.....only Braben made the correct statement at the time "implementing Space legs for the sake of space legs isnt doing anything for the game" leading to the question "what do space legs actually DO for the gameplay" and truth be told thats a question CI-G hasnt answered yet as the more they focus on space legs the more tedious and boring the gameplay becomes...which is to the liking of a certain group of people for sure but it bypasses the vast majority of potential buyers on the market which demand immersive gameplay, easy accessible with lots of gratification and content.

Star Citizens space legs provide immersion at first but soon become tedious and annoying when you have to traverse the same old space station for the xth time or make it a habit to travel a lot at which point the current warp times kill any excitement. When it comes to actual gameplay aka doing missions Star Citizens flight model is subpar to existing competition titles in the genre and its FPS mechanics are a far cry from the established "norm" currently provided by todays 08/15 shooter games. Simply combining both is not enough to lift it to special status....it has to perform in both to convince.

And when it comes to the average gamer "trying hard" is simply not good enough. You should know best what an ungrateful bunch we can be. We demand highest standards, lowest prices and manage to nag about the tiniest things. Can you imagine what would happen if Star Citizen became widely available right now? Do you understand HOW FAR away Star Citizen is from a commercial successful game when titles like Anthem or Fallout 76 are being ripped apart and proclaimed "failed". Doing "your best" simply doesnt cut it when companies as well as gamers reduce a title to a simple number. And in Star Citizens case its currently a low number regardless how high you specifically would rate it.

Past votes have been either biased (because provided by CI-G) or been "hacked" by pro-SC activists (I dont think having 10 extra accounts is a rumor among the more invested backers) but will eventually fail when it comes to a commercial release. Star Citizens often mentioned "alpha status" is its only protection right now to prevent a collossal backlash because as most pro-SC fans agree.....Star Citizen is "missing" lots of stuff that would make it a complete game able to compete with other games on the market.

NMS provides space legs and has a bigger game world, more visual diversity and is seamless. In what regard is NMS "lesser" then Star Citizen at this very moment? Oh do I need to mention that NMS started development after SC and finished years ago?

The graphics?

Do the graphics REALLY compensate for having subpar, unfun mechanics in place with travel times that border on hours and content that is not nearly dense enough to justify a 5$ fire sale? I disagree but maybe most people put more focus on visuals then actual gameplay I dont know. What is the usual reply to these statements? "everything is going to change"? Do you realize how much that sounds like the chanting of a cult which turns a blind eye to the real things going on which is this.....


Chris Roberts has no motivation to release Star Citizen anytime soon!

His company is based on a dream that its development is nowhere CLOSE to finish. Stretching out development is in his best interest as every month requires monstrous amounts of money which he directly profits from. His invested backers are currently sitting in a "hostage" situation as walking away means giving up on any money already invested which in some cases is far more then any statements of "I m rich" or "disposable income" babble. These people are bound by the money they already dropped into this. Its no wonder that many people "in" this project are very sore and touchy when it comes to criticism of their baby. Defensive reactions as well as lashing out is all well documented when it comes to sunk cost fallacy.

Remember...CR is under no pressure to finish either. His TOS as well as his option to simply walking away proclaiming "we tried our best but we failed....sorry" gives him a golden card that he is currently getting rich from. Oh and his family members as well. Disregarding these things and opting to believe that he is a "good guy who wants to give us the best possible game" is a bit delusional when CI-G has demonstrated often enough that its primarily concerned about money...which is perfectly acceptable according to the die-hard fans which AGAIN goes directly against the "BDSSE".

What does CI-G has to gain from finishing the project? Aye there are a few more million potential buyers out there who could pump more money into CRs coffers. But for that to happen the game NEEDS to be actually good and above existing competition. If that truly was the case meaning iof CI-G would actually believe that themselves they would try to push the game out to release as fast as possible because any lasting development is keeping them from racking in the profit. In that regard Star Citizen ATROCIOUS development progress is saying more then enough already. It often appears to be artificially slowed down because of "something" or by throwing the fans another hypothetical "bone" that explains another delay. That all in addition to the actually "hidden" delays going on all the time. Things getting pushed back weeks and months unsaid because hey....the roadmap is out there in plain sight so WE dont have to say it ourselves.

All the people who excuse and defend CI-Gs every move are actually the ones working actively at the disastrous failure and epic loss of development resources to come. I often think that Star Citizen will never become an actual game but of course theres always the possebility that CI-G will simply cut its losses....release a half-baked 20 score metacritic game and walk away...they wouldnt care...they got their money and at CRs age he doesnt need to concern himself with his reputation anymore. He got rich already.

His primary concern right now will be to hold on to any money he leeched out of this project. As he is already untouchable by the backers.

Does this post REALLY look like a simple "hater" post to you? Or did I actually manage to transport the bad feeling I have from watching Star Citizens development? It worries me to see so many people willingly jumping over the plank being stripped of their money and having their goodwill or weak character abused. When I see shady conmen taking advantage of the poor, the good-willing or the inexperienced I am NOT OKAY with walking by and blaming the people getting exploited as it happens right now "well....you should ve known what you are getting into" or "your own fault for lacking the discipline". Its unfair, its disgusting and it deserves a critical voice. Which is not me by the way but there are enough voices raising against CI-Gs practices. Labeling them all categorically "haters" is the easy way out but doesnt reflect what really happens.

I always enjoy your posts Fritz especially when you wax at length. You don't come off as a hater, you come off as someone who sees past promises and dreams and can analyze what's really there. Lots of your thoughts coincide with the feelings I have and its always a interesting read.

We are all gamers here, and I think gaming has become a bleak harsh reality. Your passion shows as does your concern for the reality of what's happening.

When people put money into this thing it says this is okay. Companys can do business like this and treat customers like this.

Chris Roberts is a charlatan.

We all want to have fun. A great game is something we can all get behind. I don't hate star citizen. I hate people being milked and treated like crap. I hate what gaming has become and what companys get away with these days. Chris Roberts claimed to be against all of this, he was going to do it right and fix things and deliver the best damn space game ever.

He became everything he said he was against and he took it even further. A new low water mark for gaming business.

 

[StuartGT]

For Concierge ($1k+ backers) only, tickets priced at $275

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/bcb12u

 

[Lordxenu]

I think Star Citizen captured an apparently wealthy and invested group of gamers that want to see their dream become a reality.

I havent backed SC and have only played for about 15 mins during a free play weekend (any game that gives me 15fps on my pc isn't worth my time!).

But I recently watched a few videos on the 3.5 patch and actually you can start to see what they're trying to make I no longer think it's a scam but I do think that they've set out to deliver the impossible and actually it's probably going to be impossible. The game looks like an amazing tech demo but the way they have monetised to this point (here's my £15k I have all the ships now) means that getting into it will be near impossible.

I also find the animations so annoying like getting up from bed of walking around the ship to find the right button to get in.

But from a dev point of view they've just added so much pointless nonsense I mean FOIP??? why???? sure put it in a game thats released and looking for new cool stuff but in SC?!?!?!? of the physics for moving drinks around a cup seriously why?!?!?

I think it's a huge project with such monsterous mismanagement it will struggle to get over the line.

I really hope it does and that all those backers prove us wrong because it will be good (maybe) if they do make it.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Yet, people have given CIG $250M to bring his vision to life thus far. Just illustrates there is a void in the gaming world that he wants to fill.

So like I said, for a 1/4 Billion dollars, no one has stepped up to the plate. The rest is just talk...

CR went with the plan of saying YES to everyone,so the amazing game you think is being made for you is completely different from the game being made for everyone else,and the actual reality is a shell of a game with no focus.

 

[MTBFritz]

I think Star Citizen captured an apparently wealthy and invested group of gamers that want to see their dream become a reality.

I havent backed SC and have only played for about 15 mins during a free play weekend (any game that gives me 15fps on my pc isn't worth my time!).

But I recently watched a few videos on the 3.5 patch and actually you can start to see what they're trying to make I no longer think it's a scam but I do think that they've set out to deliver the impossible and actually it's probably going to be impossible. The game looks like an amazing tech demo but the way they have monetised to this point (here's my £15k I have all the ships now) means that getting into it will be near impossible.

I also find the animations so annoying like getting up from bed of walking around the ship to find the right button to get in.

But from a dev point of view they've just added so much pointless nonsense I mean FOIP??? why???? sure put it in a game thats released and looking for new cool stuff but in SC?!?!?!? of the physics for moving drinks around a cup seriously why?!?!?

I think it's a huge project with such monsterous mismanagement it will struggle to get over the line.

I really hope it does and that all those backers prove us wrong because it will be good (maybe) if they do make it.

The current attitude that is being reflected by CI-G and carried by the fans is that "we are fed up with half-baked games that come out unfinished and need years of more polishing until they finally become the game we always wanted". So CI-G is following the "we wont release until everything is PERFECT" which it ll never be of course, always some new idea to implement, some more pixels with the wrong color some more "refactoring". This dragges out the existing development time tenfold all the while people who rally under the "great games need long a development" flag refuse to recognize that what Star Citizen tries to accomplish isnt all that special and often enough even the developers seem to be at a loss at what specifically they try to accomplish anymore.

 

[Lordxenu]

The current attitude that is being reflected by CI-G and carried by the fans is that "we are fed up with half-baked games that come out unfinished and need years of more polishing until they finally become the game we always wanted". So CI-G is following the "we wont release until everything is PERFECT" which it ll never be of course, always some new idea to implement, some more pixels with the wrong color some more "refactoring". This dragges out the existing development time tenfold all the while people who rally under the "great games need long a development" flag refuse to recognize that what Star Citizen tries to accomplish isnt all that special and often enough even the developers seem to be at a loss at what specifically they try to accomplish anymore.

Absolutely it's very clear mismanagement, they don't seem to have ever nailed down a scope so you get these endless additions but nothing gets finished.

I totally agree with the idea that games should be more polished but would I rather have a few bugs and place holders in a playable game or a game that is nowhere near but plans to have no bugs.

I think cyberpunk will be interesting to see because it looks very similar to SC without the flying (I know that sounds daft but SC seems to focus more and more on walking than it does flying and arcorp looks very cyberpunk).

If they release cyberpunk and it does most of the things SC is trying to do whilst elite does most of the flying they're trying to do I think it will speak volumes about how poorly the sc project is being managed.

 

[Iron Golem]

Absolutely it's very clear mismanagement, they don't seem to have ever nailed down a scope so you get these endless additions but nothing gets finished.

I totally agree with the idea that games should be more polished but would I rather have a few bugs and place holders in a playable game or a game that is nowhere near but plans to have no bugs.

I think cyberpunk will be interesting to see because it looks very similar to SC without the flying (I know that sounds daft but SC seems to focus more and more on walking than it does flying and arcorp looks very cyberpunk).

If they release cyberpunk and it does most of the things SC is trying to do whilst elite does most of the flying they're trying to do I think it will speak volumes about how poorly the sc project is being managed.

Its like Elite is about piloting a space ship, Cyberpunk living in a futuristic urban city. SC wants to be both?

 

[jmp470]

Lordxenu, you have to wonder, is cyperpunk even geared towards the same people as Elite or SC? Others have said multiple Games do more than SC, which is true, but, maybe backers want it all in one game.

 

[Lordxenu]

Lordxenu, you have to wonder, is cyperpunk even geared towards the same people as Elite or SC? Others have said multiple Games do more than SC, which is true, but, maybe backers want it all in one game.

I think they do want it all in one game and that's how the initial vision captured so much imagination but it's that same vision that's maybe just too much to deliver.

Cyberpunk will be a different game I also think making comparisons to nms is unfair as nms is a survival game. My point is more that is the entire game cig want to make is delivered in 2 parts (I.e. elite and cyberpunk) in a much shorter space of time with less budget then you have to question what why they are so far away

 

[jmp470]

I think they do want it all in one game and that's how the initial vision captured so much imagination but it's that same vision that's maybe just too much to deliver.

Cyberpunk will be a different game I also think making comparisons to nms is unfair as nms is a survival game. My point is more that is the entire game cig want to make is delivered in 2 parts (I.e. elite and cyberpunk) in a much shorter space of time with less budget then you have to question what why they are so far away

valid points for sure, and not to dwell on there past, as I stated, I like projects on there hospital bed, but I think 2019-2020 will be a good year for SC. After watching a Youtube video on Cyberpunk. I'm not going to lie, I would rather upgrade my 600i to the 890J for $500 than buy the video I just watched. But, time will tell what happens.

As I’m eating lunch, I’m thinking about gaming and your comment. And I cannot help but realize for me, I’m not a fan of FPS. As a matter of fact, my buddy bought me Rainbow 6, and Ghost recon so we can game together. While decent, they don’t hold my attention long. However, gearing up in SC, flying my ship to some location and going into clear out pirates in SC is awesome to me. I’m not sure why I’m wired this way, but, I am.

 

[Lordxenu]

valid points for sure, and not to dwell on there past, as I stated, I like projects on there hospital bed, but I think 2019-2020 will be a good year for SC. After watching a Youtube video on Cyberpunk. I'm not going to lie, I would rather upgrade my 600i to the 890J for $500 than buy the video I just watched. But, time will tell what happens.

As I’m eating lunch, I’m thinking about gaming and your comment. And I cannot help but realize for me, I’m not a fan of FPS. As a matter of fact, my buddy bought me Rainbow 6, and Ghost recon so we can game together. While decent, they don’t hold my attention long. However, gearing up in SC, flying my ship to some location and going into clear out pirates in SC is awesome to me. I’m not sure why I’m wired this way, but, I am.

I'm in the same place as you I'm no big fan of fps games no reason they just don't grab me I'm the same with MMOs but sim games and for some reason 3rd person games really get my attention.

I honestly really hope sc works out I think it could be a really interesting game I do just wonder what would've happened if Chris Robert's was doing this as a joint venture with an ex publisher higher up, not to make it a live service cash grab but someone that knows the importance of scope and delivering something to some kind of timescale.

 

[Tippis]

Yet, people have given CIG $250M to bring his vision to life thus far. Just illustrates there is a void in the gaming world that he wants to fill.

Not really, no. It illustrates that people who take tremendous care not to keep abreast of the gaming industry are easily lied to about the state of said industry, and that lock-in effects and sunk cost fallacies are alive and well.

I like projects on there hospital bed, but I think 2019-2020 will be a good year for SC.

Based on what? Their evasive suggestions that nothing will actually be released, even as we get into year 10 of development?

 

[jmp470]

Not really, no. It illustrates that people who take tremendous care not to keep abreast of the gaming industry are easily lied to about the state of said industry, and that lock-in effects and sunk cost fallacies are alive and well.


Based on what? Their evasive suggestions that nothing will actually be released, even as we get into year 10 of development?

I can honestly say I don’t understand your thoughts. I backed SWTOR when it first came out. And will play the new stuff too, and pay the subscription if I want.

Bottom line, not every one cares about the time lines.

 

[Dementropy]

Answer the Calders 2020

 

[Tippis]

I can honestly say I don’t understand your thoughts.

Simple: Chris sold a lot of pigswill to people because, just like him, they no idea what modern gaming looked like. As it has become more and more clear that his competence has not improved over the last quarter century, and as modern gaming has further proved all of his nonsense to be… well… nonsense, standard defence mechanisms have kicked in to keep the dream alive.

There are almost no limits to how much people are willing to pay for well-sold pigswill, or to what lengths they'll go to rationalise and defend that expenditure.

Bottom line, not every one cares about the time lines.

That wasn't the question.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Bottom line, not every one cares about the time lines.

Problem is, most people do, including people who expect a released product in their lifetimes.