I smell a precedent being set 
https://www.thewrap.com/grumpy-cat-wins-710001-in-copyright-lawsuit-memes-have-rights-too/
https://www.thewrap.com/grumpy-cat-wins-710001-in-copyright-lawsuit-memes-have-rights-too/
The Star Citizen Thread v8
- Thread starter Yaffle
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The most upvoted comment proposes CIG follows FD by adding Big Guns to the stations and enforce speed limits.
…also, you meant “Richard”, not “Robert”
Holy hell, my post was up for like 5 seconds max....how often do you F5PM???
Oh dear. OK...
CIG entered into a contract with CryTek, part of which was that they have to promote they they are using CE to write their game - and in reverse that CT have the right to show that CIG are using CE for "the game" for their own marketing purposes once it's had it's first public release. (which doesn't mean non-alpha, and did happen)
They also aren't allowed to claim that their 'fork' of CE is their own engine... so "StarEngine" better had just be an internal joke because otherwise if its shown to be undermining CT's claim to their IP (CryEngine) then they could be liable for that.
But the problem with the Bugsmashers videos is not so much that they've published (made viewable) a few lines of the code from their CE3 files... but that they had announced that they'd switched engines, and if that's the case and the GLA was no longer in effect - well then the file being edited shouldn't actually be there to display anyway - because it's not part of Lumberyard and they had a duty to delete it.
However... There's a suggestion that Amazon may have allowed access to 'legacy' CE files ... so maybe that would have included this file - if this is true.
But even then - Amazon have quite deliberately dumped all of the 3rd party code and replaced it with alternatives. This means that while CIG had a license to use Scaleform (Autodesk's Flash-based HUD system) with CE3, sub-licensed by CryTek for the term of the GLA (that exhibit 4 document with CR's sig IIRC), it does seem unlikely that Amazon had any right to also grant a continuation of the license given they weren't intending upon carrying it forward.
That video potentially shows CIG using a CE specific file post switch to another engine and "out of contract" (which hadn't been terminated anyway) along with 3rd party software that they most likely only have a license to use with the original engine, not the new one.
Regarding the right to create both games:
Well you are repeating CIG's defense there and frankly it make no sense at all if you simply consider the purpose of a software license.
If a company spends a considerable amount of effort creating a game engine, it'll only allow others to use it with full credit (to entice other licensees) and absolutely at the exclusion of any competing game engine. No company would let a licensee combine their tech with a competitors and give away their tech/marketting gains.
If the GLA is still active then CIG working with LY tech and enhancing it is certainly falling foul of any anti-competition terms and the Bugsmashers video #40 is likely a disaster because it seems to show that they were still using non LY tech after the switch, and this was a released build too.
If 2.6.3(IIRC?) was LY and not CE, and if it's using scaleform (flash) UI as the video suggests, outside of a valid license then... "oops" is not quite the right word.
I think that you are meaning the no damages are payable bit though, which only applies except for deliberate action on the part of the licensee - and I think that anyone would agree that talking to another engine provider for a year and then switching over to it "in two days" would be seen as a pretty deliberate action?
Anyway. IANAL and there's a lot one way or the other it seems for those that ARE lawyers to figure out. I'm just sad at the whole affair TBH.
The switch always seemed dubious (to someone who's developed software products) and it never looked like it was handled very professionally at all.
SQ42 might have been a pretty cool game but I don't have much confidence any more that it'll ever happen.
CIG entered into a contract with CryTek, part of which was that they have to promote they they are using CE to write their game - and in reverse that CT have the right to show that CIG are using CE for "the game" for their own marketing purposes once it's had it's first public release. (which doesn't mean non-alpha, and did happen)
Yes, Amazon paid an unknown amount of money to CryTek so that they could develop the engine to suit themselves and rebrand what's left with their own logo. CIG on the other hand didn't - and back to your first point, they licensed the use of the engine and it clearly stipulates that they have to display the CryEngine as prominently as the game logo and wherever that appears.
They also aren't allowed to claim that their 'fork' of CE is their own engine... so "StarEngine" better had just be an internal joke because otherwise if its shown to be undermining CT's claim to their IP (CryEngine) then they could be liable for that.
Well 5 or so years ago, the code wasn't there to be looked at by anyone. And in any case, only CryTek have the right to publish (on web or video) more than 50 lines of code at any time according to the new t+c's. It's their product, they own the copyright and can dictate how it can be published.
But the problem with the Bugsmashers videos is not so much that they've published (made viewable) a few lines of the code from their CE3 files... but that they had announced that they'd switched engines, and if that's the case and the GLA was no longer in effect - well then the file being edited shouldn't actually be there to display anyway - because it's not part of Lumberyard and they had a duty to delete it.
However... There's a suggestion that Amazon may have allowed access to 'legacy' CE files ... so maybe that would have included this file - if this is true.
But even then - Amazon have quite deliberately dumped all of the 3rd party code and replaced it with alternatives. This means that while CIG had a license to use Scaleform (Autodesk's Flash-based HUD system) with CE3, sub-licensed by CryTek for the term of the GLA (that exhibit 4 document with CR's sig IIRC), it does seem unlikely that Amazon had any right to also grant a continuation of the license given they weren't intending upon carrying it forward.
That video potentially shows CIG using a CE specific file post switch to another engine and "out of contract" (which hadn't been terminated anyway) along with 3rd party software that they most likely only have a license to use with the original engine, not the new one.
Regarding the right to create both games:
This is not something that is easily answered. If you look into CIG's/RSI's communications then both "games" will be launched from within StarCitizen - and if that is the case they may be OK. However, is SQ42 being sold as a standalone thing, and not part of SC - are they showing it's a part of it and displaying that it's powered by CryEngine or are they just making it out to be a distinct thing. I dunno. I think that's open to scrutiny from the courts if CT are claiming it's separate. I think there are later episodes planned now, it'll be up to CT to show that perhaps this is a second game and expansion, but I think it'll hinge on whether it isn't giving credit to being part of SC and using CE in the marketting and any launch screens (if there even are any yet)
Well you are repeating CIG's defense there and frankly it make no sense at all if you simply consider the purpose of a software license.
If a company spends a considerable amount of effort creating a game engine, it'll only allow others to use it with full credit (to entice other licensees) and absolutely at the exclusion of any competing game engine. No company would let a licensee combine their tech with a competitors and give away their tech/marketting gains.
Well we can only assume that the filing of the court case has happened because CIG+CT haven't mutually agreed to end the GLA.
If the GLA is still active then CIG working with LY tech and enhancing it is certainly falling foul of any anti-competition terms and the Bugsmashers video #40 is likely a disaster because it seems to show that they were still using non LY tech after the switch, and this was a released build too.
If 2.6.3(IIRC?) was LY and not CE, and if it's using scaleform (flash) UI as the video suggests, outside of a valid license then... "oops" is not quite the right word.
I don't think either of them actually went belly up, wage issues and and offices closures aside.
I think that you are meaning the no damages are payable bit though, which only applies except for deliberate action on the part of the licensee - and I think that anyone would agree that talking to another engine provider for a year and then switching over to it "in two days" would be seen as a pretty deliberate action?
Anyway. IANAL and there's a lot one way or the other it seems for those that ARE lawyers to figure out. I'm just sad at the whole affair TBH.
The switch always seemed dubious (to someone who's developed software products) and it never looked like it was handled very professionally at all.
SQ42 might have been a pretty cool game but I don't have much confidence any more that it'll ever happen.
This highlights 2 issues:
1) Fans always claimed that CIG had massive reams of documents about crime and punishment that would ensure that greifers wouldn't get much chance in SC. And yet, those mechanics (even if possible) are not in game yet, allowing the griefers to have their fun.
2) That even once CIG gets the basic stuff implemented (eta: 2025) they still will have to go through tons of work dealing with how players actually play vs how they imagined players would play. See also CRs hilarious response regarding beta testers not doing what he expected them to do.
I'm sure they will be overjoyed at having to wait 30 minutes for their ships to respawn.
Hey, they could always play ED while waiting. I think you could fit a Smeaton run in that time. Oh, wait... LOL.
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when your game run's at a stomach churning 20-30 fps on a 'clean server' you have bigger problems than greifers.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
What I still find stunning, that despite there is practically no playable game to talk about, there are tons of media content about it.
For example, wheras ED has published 335 videos, SC 1024.
Bored Gamer and other youtubers talk about it almost every other day. I bet they are happy with the lawsuit as it provides something to discuss about until they make their next concept ship/pet/whatever you can buy.
For example, wheras ED has published 335 videos, SC 1024.
Bored Gamer and other youtubers talk about it almost every other day. I bet they are happy with the lawsuit as it provides something to discuss about until they make their next concept ship/pet/whatever you can buy.
To be fair I have lots to talk about ED....I just don't have time, because when I have my ED time, I just play the game.
Hope you won't mind if I add some more fidelity to your statement.
Hope you won't mind if I add some more fidelity to your statement.
ha good one mate, so long as me new and improved quotes don't end up on IGN or Polygon that's fine
Playing SC Alpha is just like living Groundhog day but never getting to the last day...
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Ha, SC gets a mention on Linus Tech Tips.
[video=youtube_share;ggIjr5Z0N10]https://youtu.be/ggIjr5Z0N10?t=113[/video]
1.50 in case the link doesn't take you there.
[video=youtube_share;ggIjr5Z0N10]https://youtu.be/ggIjr5Z0N10?t=113[/video]
1.50 in case the link doesn't take you there.
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So, http://www.thehumanitystar.com/ is where you want to go if you want to look at NZ's version of Sputnik.
I mention this because we seem to have a actual working space program for less money than SC has taken so far.
I mention this because we seem to have a actual working space program for less money than SC has taken so far.
Basically, get an Optane SSD or equivalent, or else your experience is going to be pants. Oh boy, i was just thinking about spending a ton of money on a new SSD..... not. Also funny bit about recommending a processor that doesn't exist.
CIG have annual income greater than that of Tuvalu and have earned as much money as the GDP of that well known country Kiribati. Erm.....
EDIT: Oh wait, Kiribati also almost participated in a space program, kind of:
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Yeah right, power of marketing...
This test proved once again that any modern SATA3 SSD is good enough for gaming, sure if you have some extra cash you can go for fast M2 SSD...
Also lets not forget size of modern games, so probably is better to buy cheap 1TB SSD, then super expensive 512GB...
Lawofthewest does some decent (and chill) video's of some 3.0 gameplay (and bugs/strategy etc):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KvtiSEzB9c
What I find especially funny is when people complain that they cannot "play" due to whatever reasons.
It should be common knowledge by now that Star Citizen is an ALPHA (people argue about it being a pre-alpha or not.....) and even the SC defense force admits that its as bare-bone as it gets. Even betas can be a frustrating experience to participate in depending on the company and the game involved but theres a reason that game companies used to have a paid workforce to test their alpha builds for them.
Alphas are not fun!
They are riddled with unfinished and bugged mechanics and features. Alphas are not meant to provide an enjoyable gaming experience. The goal of an alpha is to identify and recognize critical bugs and mistakes while giving the developers enough leeway and options to change basic core stuff without having to ditch everything. Thats why alphas usually are neither pretty nor functional. In a regular alpha you are not expected to go out and do whatever you want. Usually content/mechanics/whatever is released in batches and users are expected to focus on those only. At this stage there simply is too much stuff missing to make it a game or even enjoyable (smooth framerates, gameloops etc). Yet for some mystical reasons CRoberts decided to start with the END of a game project and start with highly detailed and polished assets disregarding dependencies or requirements in the process....or he simply is clueless when it comes to game development....
Yet people buy into the dream now expecting to boot up the game and enjoy finished game loops and living out their fantasies. I know I know this sounds as if I grabbed the "SC defense force" trumpet by mistake but in reality its because we all know what an alpha is and what it means. We never dared to doubt Star Citizen for being an alpha despite the white knights trying to present it as if we did. The question is rather WHY after 6 years of development Star Citizen seems to be farther away from the original game idea then it was 6 years ago. WHY have 175+ million dollars not help to advance the project noticeably?
The "alpha" so far feels like a finished broken sandbox where developers dump in ideas and half-finished stuff for the users to fiddle around with. But there never was a direction given, no "push" to get something done. Star Citizen in prior years has been handled like a finished game which got hit by occasional hot-fixes and DLC patches. Is it really a surprise that people treat it like a finished game? Instead when you look at the ingame store with its insane prize tags many of the things for sale neither being implemented nor designed at this stage or listen to the white knights and people with a financial interest report of all the "fun" they already have and what a fantastic "game" Star Citizen is I dont blame people for thinking of Star Citizen as a game rather then an alpha. Of course buying into this scam expecting purchase value this late without noticing all the critical articles or comments or forum wars speaks of a level of naivety that is hard to believe...or maybe its just the random internet troll having fun with the rabid crowd (which admittedly has become a lot smaller compared to previous years)
The "closed Alpha" stage (lol, flipping regular backers the bird that one) was the first instance of an alpha that was recognizable as one.
People were invited and nudged to disregard certain bugs instead focusing at specific features and functionalities. Pre-organized stress-tests as well (and this is a biggie folks) a noticable reaction to user feedback. In the case of 3.0 developers only really focused on framerates tho again handling the whole thing like its going release next week.
Why so many critical bugs and broken features known for years are not addressed nor improved I dont know. But watching CiG this long and laughing at their comical incompetence and sometimes shaking my head at malicious deception I dont believe that there is anybody left in CiG who could save this horse from breaking its legs. The latest and biggest hope for SC was the rumor that Chris was going to step back a bit leaving more of the workload for Erin who was expected to have more understanding and expertise when it comes to developing games....after Chris already demonstrated splendidly that he is completely clueless when it comes to game-development. Sadly that rumor never became reality. While Erin took control of a major development wing of the company things have not changed or improved making me believe that both brothers are indeed on "the same page" when it comes to Star Citizen but "making it a reality" isnt it.....
Refund reports have become and attracted media attention. Whole subforums are dedicated to helping people get their money back. Some few individuals are trying to drag CiG to court in order to unveil their practices and scammy nature. Basically EVERY comment section for a SC video or article is a fun thing to watch from a distance due to its heated and toxic debate/behavior giving new people the core things to go with....being "scam" "alpha" and "Derek Smart". Thats all you really need to get a first impression as well as providing you with pointers what to research next if you still have an interest in this project. Basing your purchase on only one echo-chamber is a mistake thats going to bite people in their toots and bascially there is no sympathy from me for those. After all we are not talking about a small sum of money here. Even the basic package costs you as much as a finished released AAA game and all the ships which are as we know the main honey pot when it comes to Star Citizen cost at least as much as a full game while others charge you as much as a used car or paying off rent or your house. Its mind-boggling but at the same time making it a responsibility to investigate and examine what you are about to purchase.
People just throwing money (we are talking about 40-60 bucks) at Star Citizen without a second thought because the screenshot "looked niffty" expecting a finished or fun game only to get a reality check then coming to forums to lament about its current stage get no sympathy from me anymore. These are the same people who would cry and try to sue nature itself for stumbling and falling down on the road. We have an expression for such people in germany but repeating it here would get me banned or at least get me an infraction so lets just say that this late in the project with all the red flags and problems being outlined only the stupid people are left in the pool and its really hard to feel for stupidity.
Thats for newcomers tho. I realize that a lot of people from the early days keep hoping that Star Citizen will eventually make a 180 and become a reality. Some are so heavily invested that their clinging to the project borders on clinical conditions but I know that even small sums are able to affect your judgement. I dont need to "make things up" when I identify the grey market as a lucrative source of income. We had enough people in the past boasting and claiming 6-digit numbers of profit or describing the grey market like a gold mine to not believe them. And if you continue that thought it shouldnt come as a surprise when you picture certain individuals who will outright lie and deceive you when it comes to Star Citizen in order get you hooked because you are only potential $$$ to them.
If Star Citizen itself is not a scam then some of the people surrounding it make it one on their own behalf. And at that stage its not really important to know if Chris Roberts intended the whole thing to be a scam or who the scammer is in particular. You only need to worry about Star Citizen being a scam and having really low chances of coming to fruition at all.
Due to their funding model and them dealing with private people who neither know their rights nor duties when it comes to game development CiG had a really good long run so far if you consider that milking its base as long as possible before it all blows up is the prime directive by now. Complaints and outcries have been ignored or neglected knowing that it is isolated cases without backing power or an organized effort which are met and handled by the non-paid Star Citizen defense force (SCDF) sometimes supported by the suspected occasional CiG shill or dev in disguise (hey Sandy). Their own forums are heavily biased and will suppress any criticism regardless how light it is making it impossible to point out problems or bad experiences there.
But things have changed. Along DS who had been a thorn in CiGs side almost since its start other people have become so miffed off by now that they are investing real effort and sometimes real money in order to hurt or uncover CiG. Its a trend that has begun some time ago but is so small that its easy to miss yet these people are out there and their numbers only grow. In addition to these changes Crytek has now come out of left field and completely blindsided CiG drawing them into court for rather stupid reasons. Disregarding the case is also stupid because everybody should realize that even it it fails eventually it forces CiG to commit funds and efforts on something that was completely unnecessary and costs peoples money. It will affect development and result no doubt about it. As such I blame the CEO of the company for breaking existing agreements/contracts or let the whole situation blow up like this.
Some people have surprisingly expressed their view that "bashing" CiG for all its faults is unfair because its so one-sided or something and I can really only shake my head about those statements. The only thing being unfair here is the fact that a dead project without hope or promise (seriously..the dream is shabby by now) is able to attract and command so much attention and money when other...real game companies struggle to bring their own games into the world, showing more potential, more skill, more responsibility. Its unfair that these games go unnoticed or stay small because peoples attention is dragged to the loudest shouter instead.
CiG is called out for valid reasons IMO. They had it coming and they enjoyed and abused long years of goodwill and patience by their backers. Regarding what we have after 6 years probably fiddling their thumbs and having parties all the time but of course I dont know that for certain. Its as good as the "I m sure the devs are working very hard in a crunch" opinion by now. In addition....this forum allows discussion and enables people to counter points given. There is a constant back and forth between all shades of opinions so lamenting that this thread in particular is "unfair" really makes me laugh and honestly...if thats the only thing you can bring up then why did you in the first place?
The world is unfair. Everybody knows it but whoever whines about the world being unfair gets no sympathy and shouldnt really expect any. At this point it only sounds like one of the lamest arguments pro-SC ever. If CiG only provides bad stuff or makes one mistake after the other it should come at no surprise that the majority of talks about it are negative in nature. Nothing unfair about it.
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