And to be fair to both, the solution they were mentioning was brought up fairly early in the exchange:
Though I do agree dayrth did a great job filling in the gritty details.
The Star Citizen Thread v9
- Thread starter Yaffle
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And to be fair to both, the solution they were mentioning was brought up fairly early in the exchange:
Though I do agree dayrth did a great job filling in the gritty details.
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
New Sid Alpha video. From the comments section: "Star Citizen can never be pay to win. Everyone who has spent any money on Star Citizen is already a loser." [haha][haha]
[video=youtube;PfSNO2vUPz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfSNO2vUPz4[/video]
[video=youtube;PfSNO2vUPz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfSNO2vUPz4[/video]
How would they ever find out? As the paying customer base is highly fragmented and only meets and contacts each other via platforms that are controlled/observed by CiG they have no way to figure out if most of them stopped paying money. This isolation tactic favors CiG and puts em in control whereas the average backer is powerless and can only evaluate his own actions which is less then a drop of water in the ocean. I rather think the collapse of CiG will come as an absolute shock to many who were more then happy enough to keep living in the bubble never questioning, never thinking. For them its going to be "everything is awesome" (queue LEGO movie music) to "Derek Smart was right" with no transition period in between.
Have a +1
The fact that CiG dares to participate in this discussion without having a released title to show makes this even more hilarious ^^ And of course they take the most successful games as an example. Even if they come out last in that selection they are shining brightly and smelling of roses.
I pretty much agree with this. It's backer perception. Roberts et al may have misunderestimated the community...
Yup. Any prospective buyer will look at the ~$200m in pre-sales and run for the hills. And we don't know what the actual state of CIG's finances so it may well be worse. I can't see any IP of particular value either.
Chris Roberts roundly insulting publishers may also have burned some bridges. If I was EA/whoever I'd stand at the sidelines and point at this whole story as a validation for my existence.
2017 financials are perusable https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-history
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
After a quick skim, my first impression is that they would have made a loss except for the additional income from the 'video games tax credit', which I assume is a government initiative to support the gaming industry?
From that, on the bottom of the very last page (from the latest accounts pdf).
"The company has taken advantage of the exemption under paragraph 33.1a of FRS 102 from disclosing transactions entered into between two or more members of the group, where the subsidiary undertaking which is a party to the transaction is wholly owned by a member of the group".
I don't understand the reports or accounting speak but this sounds shady.
Hmm I've just read the FRS accounting rules, its allowed. But where are all the subsiduary account reports? These are not disclosed.
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Ninja'ed
I was about to point that out, as well as 'Amount due from parent undertaking' of 1.9M pounds. Always interesting to see what goods and services are being purchased between parents and subsidiaries. "Administration fees" is always a good one. (They don't say that btw, in case anyone misunderstands).
Yes, to be specific the UK game industry. There is some controvery as to whether CIG actually fits the criteria for receiving it, but that is up to the UK government at some point.
Yes, I can see why many people would think they're not a game dev company because they can't make games. Ok, that was a cheap shot. I admit it. Couldn't help myself.
No chance.
Nice to see that their accountant doesn't try to describe the whale-milking income as 'donations' though.
Cost of sales and other expenses appear to be about 10.5M pounds for the 6 month period. So roughly 1.75M pounds per month (US$2.3M per month). However there's a caveat that they haven't given as much detail about the expenses as I'd like. If some of those expenses are operational expenses unrelated to longer term burn, I can't tell. But I can see salaries + leases are around 9M pounds by themselves, so the 10.5M pound figure can't be too far wrong. Any accountants please step in now.
Yeah, I'm guessing about US$2.3M per month.
Cost of sales and other expenses appear to be about 10.5M pounds for the 6 month period. So roughly 1.75M pounds per month (US$2.3M per month). However there's a caveat that they haven't given as much detail about the expenses as I'd like. If some of those expenses are operational expenses unrelated to longer term burn, I can't tell. But I can see salaries + leases are around 9M pounds by themselves, so the 10.5M pound figure can't be too far wrong. Any accountants please step in now.
Yeah, I'm guessing about US$2.3M per month.
As far as I remember the UK operations account for slightly more than a half of their employees, if CIG's words on the total employment are true.
And the financial statement says 318 employees for the period to 31 Dec 2017. That would mean average remuneration of 7.8M/318 = 24,500 pounds for 6 months, or 49,000 pounds pa (US$63,700 pa). Since the employee count probably includes staff that left and started within that period, the true pro-rata average salary would be a little higher.
Edit: And if the employee count includes many part timers, the average salary pro-rata would be higher again.
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Cost of sales and other expenses appear to be about 10.5M pounds for the 6 month period. So roughly 1.75M pounds per month (US$2.3M per month). However there's a caveat that they haven't given as much detail about the expenses as I'd like. If some of those expenses are operational expenses unrelated to longer term burn, I can't tell. But I can see salaries + leases are around 9M pounds by themselves, so the 10.5M pound figure can't be too far wrong. Any accountants please step in now.
Yeah, I'm guessing about US$2.3M per month.
Even a quick and dirty low end estimate with 500 staff at 60k USD each is 30 mill a year. Plus 10 mill for the CEO and his wife/bonuses and 20 mill in other expenses gives 60 million USD a year. To keep that up thats a lot of ship sales to "customers". Will they survive 2019?
I have been looking at SC to see if it is worth buying a top end rig and boy is this game going to fail. Financial mismanagement and what is really now a scam to grab cash to finish something makes me sad. I want SC as a game to play and as a competitor to ED to push fdev. Failure of SC will kill future
space sims as who would risk it? I used to project manage IT projects in a bank and know the stench of mismanagement. Many large projects fail surprisingly. Of course I am damned to eternal flaming by the Citizen cult if I say this anywhere near a fan forum. They are crazy bunch!
I suspect one day this will be a film like the Enron one detailing the horrible financial mess it became.