The Star Citizen Thread

[Boomotang]

...both feature flight models. Why can't this be compared?

No one is saying that you can't compare flight models. But this is how we got here, remember?

FD have set the level when they have released ED Alpha. CIG have delayed their Alpha for 6 months, they had all the information about how ED was received, they have larger team working on project, they knew which level they should have achieved. I do not see viable reasons why AC should not have surpassed ED. But it did not.

Just remember when comparing flight models that you're comparing two WIPs. Although SC is much more WIP at the moment because they're at an earlier stage.

 

[G.T]

Oops wrong thread

 

[Boomotang]

I don't think its crazy to say that in a game about flying space ships first and foremost I care about flying space ships.

And right now it doesnt even feel like a space ship. It feels like a turret. Roll is not even part of the flight model. You just drag your nose around. When you get a chance to try it out you'll see for yourself I'm sure.

And you just missed the entire context of the conversation about the progress of the different games.

 

[psyron]

Personally, I do not need the hangar module, I was never interested in it. What was its purpose? It is like if you have a car but cannot drive it because you do not have driver's licence, the only thing you can is walk around the car, take a seat but never to drive. Sorry, but I am not the kind of person that spends time in such a silly way (walking around the car and saying "Wow that's a nice car I have").

Fully agree!

And it's even worse. I completely dislike the idea of having a hangar on some planet. Wanting to be a pilot is exactly the contrary idea. It's more like being a space cowboy. Your ship is your horse. And the whole space is your home - not a stupid hangar!

So when i first heard about " ' hangars ' " i was completely disappointed and understood immediately what way they are willing to go.

 

[Bains]

The thing that sickens me the most on the RSI forums are the fanboys who blindly defend everything and anything, usually without any rational or intelligent argument. They behave like primitive simpletons who have either lost or never had critical thinking skills to begin with. It's incredibly insulting to be told "no this is not an arcade game, I know better than you" by some person whose signature says Minecraft is the ultimate game of all time.

The virtual joystick for the mouse, as it is currently implemented, is a major boost to the peripheral's capabilities, and makes joysticks obsolete. That's my opinion after trying them both.

I'm really bummed too because I have just ordered a FSSB R3 mod for my warthog. At least it'll still be useful in ED.

I really sympathise.

And on the joystick point.

Fully agree!

And it's even worse. I completely dislike the idea of having a hangar on some planet. Wanting to be a pilot is exactly the contrary idea. It's more like being a space cowboy. Your ship is your horse. And the whole space is your home - not a stupid hangar!

So when i first heard about " ' hangars ' " i was completely disappointed and understood immediately what way they are willing to go.

Good point. Your ship's meant to be your home first and foremost. Not some 'business class' hanger with a towel and fish tank. Just stupidity.

 

[arcbinder]

No one is saying that you can't compare flight models. But this is how we got here, remember?



Just remember when comparing flight models that you're comparing two WIPs. Although SC is much more WIP at the moment because they're at an earlier stage.

Except the flight model seems to be about the same as it was when they first showed it to us 6 months ago, around the time the elite alpha first came out.

At that time they said they had the module in a state where it was ready to go out, but with no multiplayer so they wanted to hold back to get networking in.

That means they have had 6 months to refine the flight model, with elite's to look at for inspiration (CR has the alpha and said he had played it while on the stream where they showed us the early dfm), and have not.

I do enjoy arena commander, but the flight model leaves a lot to be desired.

I am hopeful that it gets better, with tighter controls for hotas and a profile for my set-up (or at least customisable controls so I can set one up), but right now I'm a little disappointed.

 

[Obosi]

CIG needs to return to the well and concentrate on just one aspect of the game: space combat. If they are not careful, they will burn through their funds and be in serious brown stuff.

The fact that they are still pre alpha is a blessing though. Plenty of time to change up.

 

[Togg]

i'll hold out hope for SC until its apparent that its useless... but i'll not invest another penny into it... for anything.

so far all I see are weightless ships that turn with no regard to inertia are way too responsive and leave no room for improvements... why have a ship with 16 thrusters when the one with 8 is a instant turn on a dime?

 

[Boomotang]

Except the flight model seems to be about the same as it was when they first showed it to us 6 months ago, around the time the elite alpha first came out.

At that time they said they had the module in a state where it was ready to go out, but with no multiplayer so they wanted to hold back to get networking in.

That means they have had 6 months to refine the flight model, with elite's to look at for inspiration (CR has the alpha and said he had played it while on the stream where they showed us the early dfm), and have not.

I do enjoy arena commander, but the flight model leaves a lot to be desired.

I am hopeful that it gets better, with tighter controls for hotas and a profile for my set-up (or at least customisable controls so I can set one up), but right now I'm a little disappointed.

HAHA "With Elite's to look at for inspiration......"

Two things:

1. You assume that CR wants to be just like ED.
2. It's meant to be iterated upon. Not to be in a finished state.

I'm not knocking ED's flight model. Just saying that CR obviously has a different direction he wants to go in. Where it is now is not going to be where it is a couple months down the road.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it isn't as far off the mark as many of you claim it is. The claims of "no inertia" and "terrible flight model" smell of hyperbole, which is nothing new here.

 

[Neo-ST]

however they are the games of the same genre - Space Sim, both feature flight models. Why can't this be compared?

Because it's not fair to judge WIP projects as whole products ?
You may compare them, for example, which one got further in development. In this case it's ED, but it still doesn't mean both won't grow up.

Both are space sims - of course they have to be compared. And by the way it's Star Citizen who are always saying they want to make the "best space sim ever".

Yes and both are WIPs. It's like looking at two houses getting built up at early stage and deciding which one's better for living.

This will not happen. They have to rethink the whole flight model. Maybe if they ask FD for help.

"Hope dies last" ... that's how it sounds to me.

You seem to know a lot, are you a professional clairvoyant by any chance ?
Hope is present in both games at this stage.
If one fails, you can always sell your package and move along. You'll still have the other one

 

[Bains]

i'll hold out hope for SC until its apparent that its useless... but i'll not invest another penny into it... for anything.

so far all I see are weightless ships that turn with no regard to inertia are way too responsive and leave no room for improvements... why have a ship with 16 thrusters when the one with 8 is a instant turn on a dime?

Because...

In space when you use an xbox controller no one can hear you scream.

You seem to know a lot, are you a professional clairvoyant by any chance ?
Hope is present in both games at this stage.
If one fails, you can always sell your package and move along. You'll still have the other one

He may not be clairvoyant but you got to admit the direction SC is going and who it is catering for is pretty clear. I tell you now a lot of the backers aren't really even that interested in space flight, rather its the MMO theme park experience.

 

[Gulskjegg]

The entire WC franchise is little more than a cartoon. The games were good for their time, but there is very little meat on the bone for adults that are looking for something other than Unreal Tournament '99 in space.

 

[arcbinder]

HAHA "With Elite's to look at for inspiration......"

Two things:

1. You assume that CR wants to be just like ED.
2. It's meant to be iterated upon. Not to be in a finished state.

I'm not knocking ED's flight model. Just saying that CR obviously has a different direction he wants to go in. Where it is now is not going to be where it is a couple months down the road.

1. No, you're assuming I think that. Inspiration can be in both directions. With Elite's flight model available to him, he could see what he liked or disliked and could draw upon that.

2. This was one of the main points of my post. They've had 6 months to iterate upon it and it hasn't changed, so they obviously want it like it is.

And no, it's not terrible. But to claim that they are at different points in development and haven't had any time to refine it, so any criticism of the flight model is completely unfounded is to ignore that they have had this in place since the time Elite's first iteration came out.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I have a sneaking suspicion that it isn't as far off the mark as many of you claim it is. The claims of "no inertia" and "terrible flight model" smell of hyperbole, which is nothing new here.

sneaking suspicion?

that sounds like fence sitting to me. Dude, man up get off the fence and tell us we are all talking rubbish and that it handles just fine if that is what you think.

there is nothing wrong with disagreeing.... Though I must admit, it surprises me you dont think there are issues with it.

 

[Daffan]

I don't think its crazy to say that in a game about flying space ships first and foremost I care about flying space ships.

And right now it doesnt even feel like flight. It feels like a turret. Roll is not even part of the flight model. You just drag your nose around. When you get a chance to try it out you'll see for yourself I'm sure.

Yep, thats why people want to rebind yaw on their joystick x axis to replace roll..

what a joke, that is proof right there of arcade turret badness....

btw i want to play it again to test some flight stuff... but now it hangs on the splashscreen....ahh well

 

[Aleksej]

No one is saying that you can't compare flight models. But this is how we got here, remember?

Just remember when comparing flight models that you're comparing two WIPs. Although SC is much more WIP at the moment because they're at an earlier stage.

I am fully aware that both are WIP and I really hope that CIG will improve. I really wanted to see AC at least at the same level as ED Alpha 1 was for me. Unfortunately IMO they need to completely redesign of the flight model.

 

[Boomotang]

sneaking suspicion?

that sounds like fence sitting to me. Dude, man up get off the fence and tell us we are all talking rubbish and that it handles just fine if that is what you think.

there is nothing wrong with disagreeing.... Though I must admit, it surprises me you dont think there are issues with it.

I'm expecting there to be issues with it. Just not as big as some people here say they are. They are suspicions because I still haven't had the opportunity to play it.

 

[Daffan]

I am fully aware that both are WIP and I really hope that CIG will improve. I really wanted to see AC at least at the same level as ED Alpha 1 was for me. Unfortunately IMO they need to completely redesign of the flight model.

If they do a complete re-design of the flight model

they will have to remove mouse mode, and add mouse-joystick emulation instead

you just cant have proper flight on a chase the cursor system...

 

[Boomotang]

I am fully aware that both are WIP and I really hope that CIG will improve. I really wanted to see AC at least at the same level as ED Alpha 1 was for me. Unfortunately IMO they need to completely redesign of the flight model.

Will you not be happy unless it's a clone of ED?

 

[Aleksej]

Because it's not fair to judge WIP projects as whole products ?
You may compare them, for example, which one got further in development. In this case it's ED, but it still doesn't mean both won't grow up.

I think it is fair to compare different stages of the games' development in our case as they pass through almost exactly the same path.

ED A 1.1 - single player scenarios
ED A 2.0 - added multiplayer

AC 0.8 - Single Player
Then they are adding multiplayer towards AC 1.0.