the station bandit last night

[CMDR Noctivagus]

1st off thank you all for the wishes., shes doing well and home this week,,

I did not intend for this sort of thread ,but i suppose it had to happen,due to its topic,,
I have not read all posts sorry ,
But i do agree with the testing of greifing, it is needed and as some said FD asked for it.

Ganking i dont agree , i know its going to happen, but theres no need in alpha, 3 agaisnt 1,, in alpha what was you hoping to achieve,

Station hijacks etc. Testing defences , im all for that , if this was the intention of what happened, then i agree on the test ,but not how you went about it, there was 3 of you annd i think one outside, so why a innocent.

1- video
2- be attacker
3- victim

No need to pick on innocents,,,,

If this sort of testing is required by your group, then plan it out better, no need to do surprised. Attacks, .. you gave me no chance . I was stuck against the station wall getting out of your way comming. In then you hit me with everything,,,,
I could of being trying to test somthing that only happens now and Then... luck i was not .....

But from what i have read of the sensible posts from either side .i agree both side,
This sort of thing needs testing and yes what ever happens. Its going to be in final game to . No getting away from it,,,,

But we are all also alpha s, meaning testers, the forum is the window of information, not team speak,,, let us know of your idea / plan... you may find some of us would be willing to get shot up for the cause .plus your idea may become bigger than you thought making it a well worthy test,,,

Anyway i think enough has been said in here, even got a bit heated.

Time to put it to rest
Its here .it will always be here,

 

[Herik]

I have three things to say to this:

1. By testing the alpha this means you signed to potentially be attacked at anytime. There is no single player phase just yet. It's all multi-player.
2. Frontier have public said in the forums the other week "Anything goes"...this was in response to a thread like this.
3. Would you rather this happened now, when it "doesn't really matter", and therefore Frontier have amply time to sort it out?...or would you rather everyone was nice as pie during Alpha and only when the game gets released and dying actually means something do people think "this should have been sorted in alpha!!!"...I know what I would prefer

.
I'm not defending what some people are doing with their station ganking and spawn camping and I can see how it can frustrate people...I've been on the end of it, but I just laugh.
Can I just point out again that Frontier publicly stated "Anything goes".

Yes Wokawidget; sure,... and the elimination of multiplayer for the general population of Elite Dangerous. After all anything goes...Interesting enough, I never planned to be multiplayer in this game. I know how this (goes).

I'm not an Alpha sub for two reasons. I can't afford it, and the expected griefing which of course were now seeing.

 

[Herik]

I don't think I got my point across very well. Of course, testing out griefing measures in Alpha is entirely valid. However, the measures present in the current Alpha are so minimal that there is effectively nothing to test! Clearly in the final game, sitting outside a station in a safe system firing on anyone getting close is going to elicit a response. "Testing" that this doesn't happen in the current Alpha is beyond pointless after the first go, as it's obvious that it isn't implemented yet. So anyone who continues this type of behaviour is testing nothing but the patience of the other testers.


That's true. I think that FD should have made more of an effort to direct *everyone* testing the game to the forums, and indeed should *not* have said that "anything goes" because it's fundamentally detrimental to the testing process (at this stage).

Correct xyphyc! +1

 

[Herik]

You seem angry?

OK I can appreciate that it's frustrating to be griefed over and over and over again. I don't have access to the alpha (just premium beta), so I can't really comment on how bad it is currently.

But it's down to FD to get the balance right, with adequate station defences etc? I'm not defending it at all. I'm just looking at it from another perspective.

People should be free to play the game how they want. As long as they are not cheating/exploiting. Being killed in Elite is part and parcel of that in my honest opinion. Personally I would just laugh if this happened to me. I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as some of you do.

Ah, but GeordieMarv; would you feel that way if 3 or more Cobras lay waste to you as your trying to dock your Cobra? Would'nt that be fun?..

 

[Olrik]

xyphic

So anyone who continues this type of behaviour is testing nothing but the patience of the other testers.

Obviously...but "it´s fun" and "anything goes"

and indeed should *not* have said that "anything goes" because it's fundamentally detrimental to the testing process (at this stage).

...inadvertently encouraging the griefing behaviour. That´s my humble opinion.

 

[Yaffle]

1st off thank you all for the wishes., shes doing well and home this week,

And that is probably the best message in the whole thread. I am really glad to hear it, I wish her a speedy recovery.

 

[Stachel]

Ah, but GeordieMarv; would you feel that way if 3 or more Cobras lay waste to you as your trying to dock your Cobra? Would'nt that be fun?..

Ganking will happen a lot in the finished game. It makes no sense to be a lone wolf, does it? Its an option we all have, but few people (under 40) play games in social isolation. This particular game will attract organized groups (many of whom will be douchebaggers) and I see no issue with that. Not that you could prevent it anyway. Expect lots of elaborate baiting, luring, targetted and anarchic aggression etc.

In the finished game systems will be rated for security and that info will be made available to everyone prior to dialing in their hyperspace. There will not be just one catch-all group for every player.

Players will be able to avoid choke points (unlike other games) and make use of stealth mechanics not possible in 'other' games etc etc.

TBH the OP just had a bad day (by the sounds of it) and was annoyed about behaviour in the Alpha. Which is understandable but not of wider concern.

Personally the abuse of throw away CMD profiles and the free movement of assets between accounts (and all that implies and facilitates in meta game terms) is more of a concern than getting ganked outside a station in unsecure space.

 

[GeordieMarv]

Ah, but GeordieMarv; would you feel that way if 3 or more Cobras lay waste to you as your trying to dock your Cobra? Would'nt that be fun?..

As I have said, I'd find it funny...so for me...yes it would be fun. As I have also said, I can appreciate that for others it might not. I guess I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite. So for me personally...no big deal.

 

[PacalB]

As I have said, I'd find it funny...so for me...yes it would be fun. As I have also said, I can appreciate that for others it might not. I guess I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite. So for me personally...no big deal.

Interesting.

I'm curious, at what point would you start to not find it funny? I mean you say; "die a lot, no big deal"? How about you are destroyed and killed by a group every time you make an advancement in credits and ship? You put time in, move up to a Cobra and get group popped the moment you get it? You put time in again, you move up to another ship, say an Asp, fit it out, get popped you moment you take it out? Now, rinse and repeat that multiple times over and over again. At what point does that getting popped and "I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite" become an issue for you? 5th, 10th, 20th time? More? At what point would you say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!"

 

[GeordieMarv]

Interesting.

I'm curious, at what point would you start to not find it funny? I mean you say; "die a lot, no big deal"? How about you are destroyed and killed by a group every time you make an advancement in credits and ship? You put time in, move up to a Cobra and get group popped the moment you get it? You put time in again, you move up to another ship, say an Asp, fit it out, get popped you moment you take it out? Now, rinse and repeat that multiple times over and over again. At what point does that getting popped and "I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite" become an issue for you? 5th, 10th, 20th time? More? At what point would you say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!"

If it got that bad, I'd simply turn off my computer and come back another day. I certainly wouldn't let it spoil my game! It's not like these people can camp 24hrs a day 7 days a week.

I played Elite in 1984, Elite multiplayer is what I have waited for, for what seems an eternity. Getting into fights and being outnumbered is what I fully expect to happen ALOT. I'm sure once the full game is opened up...there will be simply too much space for this to happen to you over and over and over again.

Yes it may well be a problem in Alpha, but I can't see it being a problem in the final game at all. Especially if FD balance stuff, and stations have adequate response and protection.

Edit

As for at what point would I say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!" - To be totally honest,

I wouldn't say that. Because as frustrating as it may well be, I would still be grinning for ear to ear because I was actually able to play Elite in the first place.

 

[k10]

griefers will get their money from an alt, they won't need to earn a penny.
unless there's an instant death ray, they'll take you down where ever you are just for s**ts and grins, again and again, forever. give it long enough and they'll write bots that screen scrape and take you out while they're on the toilet.
they do it only to ruin your enjoyment. there is no 'fair' or honour among thieves, or anything noble like that.
I hope FD will concentrate on reproducing a modern version of the original. MP is going to be a cess pool of hate even after it's balanced and fixed 1000 times.
I hope FD can produce a reasonable MP environment but I'm not counting on it happening for a few years tbh.
in the meantime a griefer even in alpha, once the play testing scenario is done is still a .

 

[Olrik]

Ganking will happen a lot in the finished game...In the finished game systems will be rated for security and that info will be made available

Certainly, but that´s not the point. There is no need for such childish/disruptive/griefing behaviour in the unfinished game (alpha/beta)

Personally the abuse of throw away CMD profiles and the free movement of assets between accounts (and all that implies and facilitates in meta game terms) is more of a concern than getting ganked outside a station in unsecure space

I completely agree.

-----
GeordieMarv

If it got that bad, I'd simply turn off my computer and come back another day. I certainly wouldn't let it spoil my game

That remains to be proved.
The first synptom of complacency is satisfaction with things as they are, but you will never be entirely comfortable.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Interesting.

I'm curious, at what point would you start to not find it funny? I mean you say; "die a lot, no big deal"? How about you are destroyed and killed by a group every time you make an advancement in credits and ship? You put time in, move up to a Cobra and get group popped the moment you get it? You put time in again, you move up to another ship, say an Asp, fit it out, get popped you moment you take it out? Now, rinse and repeat that multiple times over and over again. At what point does that getting popped and "I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite" become an issue for you? 5th, 10th, 20th time? More? At what point would you say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!"

I play hardcore Path of Exile where if you die you're moved to normal - when I do die I simply give away my gear, delete, and start again. I have yet to see end game locations as I have died perhaps 100 times or more.

I do not care .. It does not spoil my fun .. I am likely to keep trying for it's the journey not the destination that counts.

Same deal for ED .. I am highly unlikely to make it to Elite, more so as I will play Ironman and delete upon death. Am I bothered by griefers and / or gankers ?

Nope

 

[PD321]

I first played Elite on the ZX Spectrum. I'd played a lot of games up to that point and beyond, usually the 'three lives then you're dead' scenario, but Elite stood head and shoulders above the rest.

It didn't have the best graphics, but the never-ending format of the game made it something special. I know its a cliche now, but I can remember describing Elite to friends as 'Elite isn't a game, its a way of life'.

If you jumped into an anarchy system, you knew you were going to be attacked, but not with such ferocity that you wouldn't be able to hold your own, or at least have enough time to hyperspace out to a safer system.

You could only save progress at a space station, so being killed near the end of a trade run was a setback, but not the end of the world, and if a system was beyond your current skill level you could re-think your strategy after re-loading. Not that saving and loading was trivial, we only had tape decks then, it wasn't the instant save to/load from disk that we have now.

I gave up playing computer games long ago. I dabbled from time to time - an early version of Evochron years back, and more recently after I'd backed the Elite: Dangerous Kickstarter (premium beta) I tried Evochron Mercenary, but after mastering flight and combat, both versions of that game, although very good, lacked the depth of the original Elite.

The promise of a new Elite, developed to take advantage of all that current technology can offer has got me excited about computer games for the first time in several decades, I really can't wait for the premium beta at the end of the month, but having followed this thread from the beginning and read every post, I'm as certain as I can be at this stage that I won't have any interest at all in playing multiplayer when the retail version is released.

I have two teenage sons so I know what ganking, griefing, spawn camping and so on are. You may disagree, but to me, they are simply bullying. We don't tolerate it in society at large and I've no interest in encountering it in a game.

I'm quite happy to have to defend myself against AI pirates if I choose to enter an area that isn't 'safe', because I trust the game developers to balance the game so that a skilled pilot isn't facing impossible odds. The artificially created lethal zones that are the result of anti-social and immature bullying behaviour, which my boys tell me exist in many online multiplayer games, are not for me.

All that said, to say that I'm impressed by the Alpha 1.1 single player scenarios, would be a major understatement! What I've seeen so far vindicates my belief that this is the game I've been waiting decades to play, it's just a shame that the attitudes expressed by several in this thread mean that I'll most likely be playing on my own.

 

[Herik]

As I have said, I'd find it funny...so for me...yes it would be fun. As I have also said, I can appreciate that for others it might not. I guess I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite. So for me personally...no big deal.

No; I suspect for you its fun because thats all you want to do. Many of us would like also, (or instead) to Trade, Explore, and immerse our selves in this wide deep galaxy in groups or individualy. So again in the end, its simply the difference between PVE and PVP?....Maybe more than we realize....

One thing for sure, these other things we like to do we won't be able to do if the 'griefers and gankers' take over the game.

griefers will get their money from an alt, they won't need to earn a penny.
unless there's an instant death ray, they'll take you down where ever you are just for s**ts and grins, again and again, forever. give it long enough and they'll write bots that screen scrape and take you out while they're on the toilet.
they do it only to ruin your enjoyment. there is no 'fair' or honour among thieves, or anything noble like that.
I hope FD will concentrate on reproducing a modern version of the original. MP is going to be a cess pool of hate even after it's balanced and fixed 1000 times.
I hope FD can produce a reasonable MP environment but I'm not counting on it happening for a few years tbh.
in the meantime a griefer even in alpha, once the play testing scenario is done is still a .

You are right of course.

Interesting.

I'm curious, at what point would you start to not find it funny? I mean you say; "die a lot, no big deal"? How about you are destroyed and killed by a group every time you make an advancement in credits and ship? You put time in, move up to a Cobra and get group popped the moment you get it? You put time in again, you move up to another ship, say an Asp, fit it out, get popped you moment you take it out? Now, rinse and repeat that multiple times over and over again. At what point does that getting popped and "I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite" become an issue for you? 5th, 10th, 20th time? More? At what point would you say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!"

Very very good; I envy the way you express yourself. And in this case of course I agree.

Indeed, which is why the ganking session above needs to be done. It's gong to happen sooner or later, and to tell you the truth I can think of some positively evil ways of upsetting the apple cart. Better now than later as you say.

Odd thing; I suppose I could think up some equally evil ways to upset this game cart. But for me it would'nt be fun; just not the way I want to play the game.

I play hardcore Path of Exile where if you die you're moved to normal - when I do die I simply give away my gear, delete, and start again. I have yet to see end game locations as I have died perhaps 100 times or more.

I do not care .. It does not spoil my fun .. I am likely to keep trying for it's the journey not the destination that counts.

Same deal for ED .. I am highly unlikely to make it to Elite, more so as I will play Ironman and delete upon death. Am I bothered by griefers and / or gankers ?

Nope

Well; Having played Eve for years, that (journey) gets old fast. Especially after spending months building up uber ships with appropriate equipiment, hoping to survive in 'Low sec' for a while. So the journey can be a waste of time in a game like that. So yes I'm looking forward to a game which will give me an interesting journey...

 

[Frobitz]

Man, I can't believe this thread is still going on! :S

Seems to be giving a lot of people the idea the full game is multiplayer with random people all the time too, when it's actually going to be entirely optional on full release.

 

[Ulysses_W]

"I just expect to DIE ALOT in Elite"

I just expect to DIE A LOT in Elite.

Sorry, but this really bakes my noodle.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

One thing for sure, these other things we like to do we won't be able to do if the 'griefers and gankers' take over the game.

Stop being over dramatic .. This is not Eve where there will be choke points and the best stuff available only in low sec space, this is Elite - a completely different way of life and different game.

Sure - there are going to be some annoying people in game but not to degree as you're expressing.

 

[Theaghan Black]

Seems to be giving a lot of people the idea the full game is multiplayer with random people all the time too, when it's actually going to be entirely optional on full release.

Anyway in my opinion forcing people to avoid MP because of some players acting like psychopaths who care only in killing other players is the worst solution.

MP is great since it gives a occasion of building 'real' friendships and the challenge (and accordingly the reward) is going to be higher.

I know other players (in different communities) who are afraid of MP since this behaviour would totally ruin their game experience . As PD321 says, these "bullies" should not be tolerated.

I guess a unofficial Black List will be public on this forum, so people can ignore those guys in advance and at the same time most of these are not going to play "ironman".

At last in my opinion the entire "it's a sandbox, I'm free to do anything I want" is a poor excuse. When you play a game with a detailed setting shared by other players who act in the right way (roleplaying), you should play accordingly: it's like having a guy in your football team who keeps disrupting the match by scoring in his own goal... he's free to do it, but he will be dismissed and never called back again. These people need to be isolated.

Something tell me that the AI (and other players) will take care of them if they are attacking a protected system.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Ok folks, take a deep breath.

I'm sure FD have plans in place to deal with this kind of thing.

The Criminality thread in the DDF http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6276 Migh hold some clues into what they propose.