That's fine, but the penetration value is not inherently exclusive to interacting with the thargoids. So it's not that they got resilient, it's that the pesticide just became worse in itself.
The Thargoid Disaster and what we learn for the future, a speculation
- Thread starter RexKraemer
- Start date
That's fine, but the penetration value is not inherently exclusive to interacting with the thargoids. So it's not that they got resilient, it's that the pesticide just became worse in itself.
And we have the Gank the Goids crowd to thank for this (take a look at Mini's YouTube videos for example).
[video=youtube_share;MF6Kn_A--yY]https://youtu.be/MF6Kn_A--yY[/video]
I'm sure you had a load of fun instakilling Thargoids but the upshot of your ganking has been this ax missile nerf. Did you believe that your actions would have no consequences? Personally, I doubt that you gave it a moments thought what fdevs response would be... Am I annoyed at you? Yes, you have spoilt the Thargoids for the rest of us who don't play in large groups so that we can instakill Thargoids.
If they develop resistance, it's because they developed resistance, not because your pesticide suddenly lost potency. Presumably it's still the same thing it was the week before. The in-game equivalent, is frontier temporarily changing resistance on the specific damage type the weapons do, on the thargoid scout ship, and actually adapting the organism (since the ships are essentially alive) as we find new ways to fight back.
That the amount of damage we now do, is lower, because it's being resisted, because the organism has developed a resistance; that this might require a measurement value change, isn't a direct cause; it's a consequence.
This would be expressed as a stat staying the same, but the consequential DPS reducing by the factor of the resistance on the thargoid ship. In exactly the same way engineered thermal shields, or heavy duty hull works. Weapon never changes, it's simple debuffed at the destination. This opens up all sorts of shenanigans for screwing with commanders and making changes that make thargoids actually appear to change.
As soon as you trash the weapon, you automatically escalate the value more of them have. So it entrenches large groups can party, no one else can. Really not helping the experience.
Frontier took the path of least resistance, because it was the fasted (also that pun!). I don't blame them, per-se, but that is entirely what they have done.
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Anyway, this entire discussion is exhausting as people are trying to find ways to make what Frontier have done valid, ignoring the simple fact that most of the complaints are really around how frontier has gone about it, and the rather flippant response to the confusion it's created. Not that it probably had to happen.
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I'm sorry, but the anti-Thargoid weapons aren't exclusive to hurting Thargoids?
You can't reference how well the missiles penetrate a Thargoid's hull without accounting for the qualities of the hull. Using the lethal dose analogy: a pest might resist the pesticide by growing larger. In that case, the initial LD50 would still be valid.
Or pest could undergo a qualitative change that invalidates the initial LD50. Suddenly, the same size pest requires 50x more pesticide to be as effective.
With respect, it's not up to players to not do things in groups, lest it "ruin it" for people, so much as frontier actually accommodating multiple scenarios, without dramatic differences in outcomes. They haven't ruined anything; they've highlighted an existing flaw, that the developer is in the process of resolving, with no small amount of effort, I am sure.
Blaming a group of people, because Frontier is still getting to grips with how large groups operate in the game, despite them doing this for about 3 years, give or take, really isn't on commanders. They are doing what the game allows. That it was so ridiculously effective, compared to the solo experience, suggests there's some fundamental issues frontier is absolutely going to have to resolve.
Frontier tried to keep this as much of a secret as they could, to their credit. This was great to so. But the consequence, is we will be beta testing the live experience. And helping them improve it, for all.
Why it is kept running on assumption that Thargoids were too easy to kill and it was all unbalanced?
FD gave a taster of what Thargoids would feel in battle and then upped stakes. I am really trying to understand is there anything beyond personal salt "I didn't get to solo Thargoid, bohoo".
Huh? If the Thargoids suddenly become MUCH harder to kill... Surely that's indicative of a nerf whether you have been explicitly told about it or not?
Correct. The AX missiles were pretty effective against human ships as well, and now they are not.
They weren't; it's that like anything, more gun is more effective. Right now, large groups will still be killing thargoids; small groups and solo cannot, because frontier elected to change the weapon. Once you have enough of them, the damage reduction doesn't matter.
Because large groups can still kill thargoids, and rapidly at that; no-one else can. That's not upping the stakes. It's the consequence of making it a "use more gun" mechanic.
I have no problems with frontier making it a challenge; I have no interest in soloing a thargoid, and probably wouldn't succeed if I tried, but that's not the point; it's that's compounding the problem by making it a huge group activity event, only, within days of the first weapons coming on line.
You're missing the point; because you're assuming I want to solo something, rather than actually reading what I am saying.
So was this the intention, solving their potency against commanders, or limiting thargoid combat to (essentially) large groups?
I agree.
It's fairly obvious to me that if a solo player can't do something like kill Thargoids, he'll wing with a friend. If they can't do it, they will form a wing of four, if they can't do it they will bring a dozen... This only needed a proportionate response, like more Thargoids arriving to balance the battle.
And you think any future weapon will not be used by players in the same way?
The lowest common denominator is that the Thargoids will only ever be killed by large groups of players hence forth.
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What happens when pirates start shooting in a resource extraction site? More security arrive. Imagine you're in a wing of 3, and there's something like 9 or more commanders in the instance, and as they start their attack, two more thargoid scouts wake in, responding to distress.
It is now a) a party and b) everyone is invited and c) commanders are now woke because their entire world is a maelstrom of thargoids
There are so so many ways to shake up the situation. Escalate the response, based on the situation; scale the challenge. All the good things we'd expect to see. So so many options. They just fell back on tried-and-true. Make the gun work less good.
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Sorry, what? I HELPED kill ONE thargoid. It took our group almost an hour to do so. And MINI did nothing wrong - simply proved that, with enough concentrated firepower, you could actually instakill the thargoids. I'd also like to point out that you still can, because MINI and his friends used plasma accelerators, not the AX missiles. And the PAs haven't been nerfed at all, only the AX missiles. Another example of Frontier taking the laziest way out possible.
keep whining. Well ya, That pretty much sums it up.
Do you just post the same crap in every thread?
Or indicative of a buff to Thargoids, yeah. That's the point.
I personally wouldn't have had any issues with the thargoids getting stronger, but the missiles becoming weaker bugs me, even though it's effectively the same (as I've never used the missiles against anything but thargoids)
The difference is important.
I think they've rolled Thargoids out just fine. In the original games Thargoids were supposed to be very difficult to kill. They are an intelligent species and I imagine that just as we are attempting to defeat them they are attempting to study us and out-technology us as well. It's an arms race and it doesn't surprise me one bit that they have started to adapt to us.
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The bit you all miss is that the players had to complete CGs to even get the weapons. Then less that a week later, after putting in the effort FDev say, the weapons are now useless. Amateur game development. It's also showing for all to see, that FDev are running against a ladybird book. If players get ahead of their story, FDev will nerf the weapons.
The way to fix it, and show FDev the light.. Is to just ignore Thargoids entirely. They're pretty useless sitting in a USS with no interaction from players
On the other hand, if you want to play their hame, their way, go ahead, but you can't complain.
It's obvious to anyone in development, they're out of their league.
The way to fix it, and show FDev the light.. Is to just ignore Thargoids entirely. They're pretty useless sitting in a USS with no interaction from players
On the other hand, if you want to play their hame, their way, go ahead, but you can't complain.
It's obvious to anyone in development, they're out of their league.