The Tri-poll: What does multiplayer mean to YOU?
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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To those who keep insisting they're not issues at all - you're not helping. They clearly are for me, and for others. Nothing anyone has said who tells us it isn't an issue has actually proved their are no issues. Telling us these issues are no different to other issues we might have with something does not resolve any issues we have either.
So please don't dismiss our issues.
Help us/FD think of ways to resolve them. If you don't think it needs resolving, then you're not really adding anything, nor are you soothing the fears of those who think they do. Your fears are just as legitimate as ours and vice versa, and all should be heard, so if you have any fears about any aspect of the multiplayer experience, please feel free to air them. But please don't try to dismiss or ridicule others.
Thank you.
/voice of reason
So please don't dismiss our issues.
Help us/FD think of ways to resolve them. If you don't think it needs resolving, then you're not really adding anything, nor are you soothing the fears of those who think they do. Your fears are just as legitimate as ours and vice versa, and all should be heard, so if you have any fears about any aspect of the multiplayer experience, please feel free to air them. But please don't try to dismiss or ridicule others.
Thank you.
/voice of reason
If solo online and private groups are nerfed or removed I want my money back. I pledged for a game where I'm supposed to be able to play online at my own pace and with players of my own choosing; if I wanted an EVE clone I would be playing EVE.
The PvP and PvE players basically want different games. The PvE players seem happy with the PvP and PvE players each getting different games, while the PvP players seem to mostly want to completely remove the game PvE players want to play and force the PvE players to play the PvP game (which many PvE players deeply dislike, BTW).
Guess which ones I see as not being able to see past their own desires.
It's not exactly fears. I just see no fun, at all, in non-consensual PvP. It ruins the game for me.
As a result, I won't play a game mode where I'm subject to non-consensual PvP. If the only way for me to play online was to accept non-consensual PvP, I would just not ever bother going online. The frustration of being engaged in PvP against my will would make the whole experience worthless, potentially even negative, for me.
But - and this is a point that many PvP proponents don't seem to grasp - I want challenge and access to all PvE content. Being restricted to just "safe" systems would be far too boring, and again make the game worthless as entertainment for me.
So, end result, any solution I can agree with requires that I never be subject to non-consensual PvP, and that I can face the hardest PvE challenges the game has to offer. Anything that doesn't offer both of those would make the game worthless for me.
Marsman
Banned
oh have we reached the point of a minority threatening developers again to get their way? Where have I seen that before. I know: every other online game in existance.
So you want your money back. How about I want my money back because all the great promises of a player dynamic sandbox, which now can be overridden with a buttonclick, a parallel universe playing easymode, influencing MY universe, resulting in exploits and possible balancing issues? No one told me that will exist, so I can ask for a refund too, right?
I'm getting the impression they base their gamedesign on self entitled vocal minorities and I do not like this at all.
So who do they want to disappoint, the minority or majority? Interested on how that will end.
You don't make any sense sorry. Frontier could let you play offline and you could play over LAN "with friends" and still get exactly what was promised. No need to throw a tantrum or act like a child.
Also, don't worry, you won't get an "EvE clone", EvE is not controlled with joysticks.
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I think there should be a PvE galaxy too. Just not the same one as the PvP galaxy.
Unless they can resolve the issues people are raising, ofc.
Um...
Nobody, I don't think, has suggested that PvE/solo/private group players shouldn't be catered for. We're just concerned about the effect this has in a SHARED universe.
Really? It's stamp the foot time already?
To clarify:
1. Everyone wants to see the 'non-PvP' crowd catered to.
2. Some are concerned about the effect this has on overall balance and fairness in a galaxy shared with players who are playing on a different playing-field.
3. How do we resolve this?
Possible solutions:
1. A separate galaxy for PvP and another for PvE/online solo/private groups (any that are "non PvP" basically). Neither influences the other.
2. Some kind of handicap/balancing mechanic which ensures that these imbalances are, well, balanced.
3. Limited PvE only areas (safe zones)
4. Some kind of stealth/jamming technology that, while not true PvE, will allow players to run/hide/generally have the ability not to engage if they can possibly help it
5. Ah, what the hell. Don't worry about it. Who cares? I don't. Why should you?
6. Trust in FD to sort it out.
7. Any others I haven't thought of.
If you have anything actually constructive to add to that, I'd love to hear it. But if you're going to stamp feet and point fingers, I'd rather you just didn't.
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Nope, because we have been promised, from the start of the Kickstart, that we would be able to play online in private groups. It's far different from offline lan mode.
So, what I'm saying is that, if a feature that actually made me pledge is removed, I want my money back. Specially because the only reason to remove it would be to make the game into some kind of EVE clone with joysticks, which for me would be completely worthless as entertainment.
Marsman
Banned
Holy cow! That poll, what a joke. Ignoring 79% and giving 21% their way.
That sure will turn out well for Frontier.
I'm already regretting I even looked up this forum. Kickstarter games, "community decisions", what a big fat lie.
KS, never again. Learned my lesson.
gonna sell my pledge on ebay or give it away for charity
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1. I'm completely OK with this. But this would be closer to option 4, not option 1. Also, if my gut feeling as for how the "silent majority" prefers to play is even close to the mark, you wouldn't like the result, as a permanent segregation, when coupled with a nifty feature like groups being exclusive to the PvE side, might empty out the PvP side.
2. As long as it's just enough of a handicap that PvP players progress at the same speed as PvE players, not only I agree but I have asked for this in the past. My preferred handicap would be to make choosing PvP have the side-effect of making the PvE encounters easier without reducing the rewards, which would have the double effect of evening out character progression and further reducing the importance of PvE while flagged for PvP.
3. This is something I really don't want to see. It would effectively drive me out of the online game.
4. Not what I want. I just want to avoid PvP encounters, but I actually want to fight PvE encounters. Anything that affects both is worthless for me, at least for the purposes of allowing me to play without PvP.
5. I care because being forced into a PvP fight can literally ruin my gaming session, even when I win. A game where this can happen is not worth playing at all.
6. Yeah, and their idea to sort it out was, from the start, the all pervasive groups, which are enough of an answer for me, but apparently not for you.
Marsman
Banned
First, if anyone gets a refund I am the one, not you, because I am part of the ignored majority, to make this perfectly clear. Anyway, I don't want to be part of a whiny community of self entitled vocal minorities, spouting "EvE clone" without the slightest clue about anything, also I don't care playing a game by this company blatantly ignoring community poll results. Design Decision polls, epic LOL
@mod
would you be so kind to delete my account and point me to a link where to request refund for my pledge, thnx and goodbye
You quoted yourself, then argued against yourself - Did you forget to log out and back in as the other person ?
My spidey senses are tingling ...
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I'm having trouble thinking of what a player in another instance who is incapable of affecting not only you but also anything you can directly observe in space can possibly do to nullify what you're doing in such a way that you can't stop them - but you could stop them if you could see them to shoot at.
We're not looking at situations where the PvE player can come along and blow up the NPC convoy you're guarding, because they won't be able to see the convoy either.
What sort of case are you thinking of here?
Welcome back FromHell!
There's a couple of people in this thread that appear to be one and the same. Similar writing styles, similar argument, etc and notice also that they only post in the general "open to anyone including non-backers" forum and not the backers.
Paranoid ... a conspiracy theory ... who knows, but it's lovely drama!
5. I was being facetious. Anyone who actually thinks like that is part of the problem.
6. No. It isn't enough for me. Should I be ignored or dismissed? Should I stamp my foot and say if there are 'non-PvP' players in the same galaxy as me I want my money back? Or should I voice my concerns in the hope they can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction?
6. No. It isn't enough for me. Should I be ignored or dismissed? Should I stamp my foot and say if there are 'non-PvP' players in the same galaxy as me I want my money back? Or should I voice my concerns in the hope they can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction?
He is likely thinking about being able to deny parts of the game to other players. For example, getting a group of players and preventing anyone else from entering a specific system, or preventing players from taking part in a specific event. Some players seem to think that the most important achievement in a game is preventing other players from playing.
This is a large part of null-sec EVE gameplay, actually. The existence of this kind of gameplay is part of what drove me away from that game, though; I'm not keen on playing a game that encourages players to be jerks in order to succeed the way EVE does.
You quoted yourself, then argued against yourself - Did you forget to log out and back in as the other person ?
My spidey senses are tingling ...
Context is everything. It was in response to the previous posters assertion that "PvP players don't want PvE players catered for" so I quoted myself to illustrate that I'd literally just said I did want them catered for. And said so below the quote. I was arguing with him, not myself, and quoting myself to illustrate the point. Apologies for the confusion. I understand how easy that might be.
However, I'd be interested to hear what you think is 'going on'. What, exactly are your spider senses tingling about? If you have something to say, let's hear it.
I've tried to be constructive. What are you doing?
@Ian: I posted examples above. More than once.
I sense some hostility, so I'm going to bow out for now.
Thanks for the reasoned responses.
I would want my money back if something we have been promised from the start, and I relied upon in my choice to actually back the project, was removed. Big difference.
For example, I also backed Star Citizen. In that game the galaxy will have a large part where PvP is not optional, which was disclosed back during the KS drive. I've never threatened to ask for my money back in that game due to the PvP, since that PvP element was already decided, and was made clear by the devs still during the KS phase.
(I won't spend a single additional cent, or ever play online, in SC unless that is changed, though, but that is a whole different discussion; when it comes to SC, I pledged just for the offline persistent universe game, and I'm not going to spend money on either increases to the linear storyline or the online service, given that I have no interest in either of them. And I would ask for my money back if that game's offline persistent universe was removed or intentionally nerfed, since that is actually why I pledged for that game and something that was promised from the start.)
Marsman
Banned
Welcome back FromHell!
There's a couple of people in this thread that appear to be one and the same. Similar writing styles, similar argument, etc and notice also that they only post in the general "open to anyone including non-backers" forum and not the backers.
Paranoid ... a conspiracy theory ... who knows, but it's lovely drama!
what the heck are you telling me with this? some sort of fun running gag?
I get newsletter 8, finally got reminded checking out what is going on with this game, register here to state my opinion on the hot multiplayer topic - yes it is all a big big conspiracy I beleive. A conspiracy in your favor! Because all I see is this game is not going anywhere of the direction people want it to go, according what you showed me in the other vote thread!
same arguments of people, you bet! I can't be the only one who is ed off by this. Maybe you two and some others are one and the same, same opinion, same entitlement level, same missing arguments?
I just want my refund (thanks for the idea Darkwalker) and I want to know where to request it. And i want all my data removed, I see no option to delete my account.
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Massively separates the player base? By taking people out of Solo/Private and bringing them together in another group?
Seriously, what are you people on?
This. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. PvE.
Let me give you the facts:
1. There will be a Solo mode.
2. There will be a Private mode.
3. There will be an online, PvP-enabled mode ("all").
4. There will be an Ironman mode.
These already exist.
IF: Different groups can influence each other in the final game, would a PvE option increase this negative effect?
IF: Different groups cannot influence each other in the final game, would a PvE option create this negative effect?
The answer to both questions is no. This is not an argument against PvE. As I said before, if you have a problem with the grouping mechanic, create a separate thread. Because regardless of what decision gets made because of this thread, that grouping mechanic isn't part of it.
I'm not saying there is absolutely no issue there, I've even agreed with you. However, this is not a case that is relevant to PvE.
Ignoring 79% of people that want to play in a PvP-enabled universe by... allowing them to play in a PvP-enabled universe? Fantastic logic, there.
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