The unavoidable poll: PvP vs PvE!

What is more important for you: PvE or PvP?

  • PvE

    Votes: 609 83.3%
  • PvP

    Votes: 122 16.7%

  • Total voters
    731
  • Poll closed .
PvP = Player versus Player, it's combative by nature whether that is a competition between two wings of consenting pilots or just the late night seal clubbing pub-crawl crew. Both of which were included in my original post, so I don't see how you could have an issue there.

There are mechanics in game that are purely PvP via PvE such as PP and BGS.

Sandro can say what he likes, it's his project after all. It doesn't stop PvP from being essentially rudderless right now. You don't really earn anything from participating, there's no official leaderboard for bragging rights, there's nothing. It just exists.

It depends on what he meant when he said PvP, I doubt it was purely combative.

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Yep, that's pretty much it. It's not a PvP game... it's a PvE game with some PvP elements, but the game neither revolves around nor even requires PvP - it plays just fine without it, and engaging in it does nothing for a player other than letting them engage in PvP.

It's not a combative PvP focused game, no.

But it has prominent features that are PvP through the use of PvE mechanics.
 
Neither carries much special importance for me...

I do, however, value interaction with other players. Whether that results in PvP or winged PvE, doesn't matter.
 
BGS and Power Play, I wrote that in the same section you quoted from.

Must have missed that, it's been a long night shift and I'm still awake at 8.30am.

And yes, those are PvP elements conducted through PvE elements, but many would not consider them "real" PvP as they don't involve face to face combat, and can be engaged in across different instances or even different modes. I think it'd probably be more accurate to describe these as multiplayer PvE really, since all sides are actually involving themselves with the environment. Still, that's just arguing about definitions really.
 
Must have missed that, it's been a long night shift and I'm still awake at 8.30am.

Oh dear, get some sleep, that sounds terrible.

And yes, those are PvP elements conducted through PvE elements, but many would not consider them "real" PvP as they don't involve face to face combat, and can be engaged in across different instances or even different modes. I think it'd probably be more accurate to describe these as multiplayer PvE really, since all sides are actually involving themselves with the environment. Still, that's just arguing about definitions really.

Precisely why there will be no end to this unless FD comes in and specifically define what is PvP and PvE to them.

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Not quite Gluttony - all a forum poll can ever confirm is that a forum poll indeed took place :)

Meh, if you really want to get into the technicality of things, all it implies is that there is an attempt to poll the forum. To say that it took place from a purely semantic stand point would imply that the poll didn't get shut down immediately and no one was able to vote in it. That's an assumption not included in "a forum poll" by itself.
 
The (main) problem with PP is it is essentially unwinnable; The smaller a faction's territory becomes, the easier it is for people to infinitely fortify it. Look at Archon; that faction has been in last place for how long and they're still around? I don't think Archon has ever cracked 6th place since the inception of PP. By rights he should have been booted out of the running but the system is rigged to make it borderline impossible for one faction (or even a concerted effort from multiple factions) to defeat another. At best it qualifies as a weak form of PvEvP.
 
Meh, if you really want to get into the technicality of things, all it implies is that there is an attempt to poll the forum. To say that it took place from a purely semantic stand point would imply that the poll didn't get shut down immediately and no one was able to vote in it. That's an assumption not included in "a forum poll" by itself.

If a poll falls down in a forest, and there is nobody around to hear it, was there an IRQ conflict? :D
 
The (main) problem with PP is it is essentially unwinnable; The smaller a faction's territory becomes, the easier it is for people to infinitely fortify it. Look at Archon; that faction has been in last place for how long and they're still around? I don't think Archon has ever cracked 6th place since the inception of PP. By rights he should have been booted out of the running but the system is rigged to make it borderline impossible for one faction (or even a concerted effort from multiple factions) to defeat another. At best it qualifies as a weak form of PvEvP.

Lol you're telling the first coordinator of Archon Delaine for 5 month straight that his faction should have been kicked off because it's unpopular?

Do you know how much work Archon's people have to do to stay off of involuntary turmoil when everyone's bumping into turmoil left and right?

A power's well being is in the survival and expansion of one's faction, some may see being in first place victory, some might not. Collapse mechanic is vague as hell, sure, but I think victory doesn't exclusive belong to the collapse of some faction.

Just as people will ask what is winning in PvE, people will ask what is winning in PvP, and the answer is they are philosophical questions.

Do you actually pay attention to Power Play?

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If a poll falls down in a forest, and there is nobody around to hear it, was there an IRQ conflict? :D

More firewood!
 
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Oh dear, get some sleep, that sounds terrible.

That's the down side of rotating shift work and 12 hour shifts. The up side is that I'm now on day one of a seven day weekend. :) Even better I just booked my tickets for my next three week overseas adventure... jetting off in two weeks time. I'll be taking my laptop though so you can be sure I won't leave you all lonely. :D

Precisely why there will be no end to this unless FD comes in and specifically define what is PvP and PvE to them.

You, I, and I'm sure a bunch of other players would dearly love FD to define quite a few things about the game... and probably for exactly the same reasons they won't do it. Oh well, it gives us something to argue about on the forums...
 
Lol you're telling the first coordinator of Archon Delaine for 5 month straight that his faction should have been kicked off because it's unpopular?

Do you know how much work Archon's people have to do to stay off of involuntary turmoil when everyone's bumping into turmoil left and right?

A power's well being is in the survival and expansion of one's faction, some may see being in first place victory, some might not. Collapse mechanic is vague as hell, sure, but I think victory doesn't exclusive belong to the collapse of some faction.

Just as people will ask what is winning in PvE, people will ask what is winning in PvP, and the answer is they are philosophical questions.

Do you actually pay attention to Power Play?

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More firewood!

I used to care about PP, but not anymore. It's a waste of time. You can give me your version of Mein Kampf for keeping Archon in the fight but you will never convince me that it's hard to hold your land. The system is rigged. You CAN'T lose, even if you barely put in any effort. My faction is/was Aisling and we had flat zero coordination and we're still here. You'd have to have your ENTIRE faction sitting on their hands doing NOTHING for at least a month and a half going by the FD-approved method for faction collapse. It's statistically impossible because there will always be someone in each faction doing the PP stuff because they want the rank bonus or they like the uniform or something.

If every faction playerbase ganged up on Archon they still wouldn't be able to win, since it doesn't matter how much they undermine if you just fortify every system each week which isn't hard because Archon doesn't have many systems. There is no way to 'go for the throat' which makes the PP 'struggle' a meaningless one. Archon will always be around, so will ALD, Hudson, Winters, Torval, etc.
 
Precisely why there will be no end to this unless FD comes in and specifically define what is PvP and PvE to them.
Why would that end this?

People would just disagree.

There are so many totally harebrained schemes and suggestions that people will not stop flogging to death which all come together to say "people don't agree and want different styles of game".

The real problem is some are very very convinced they and only they are right and compromise is a word in a foreign language :( thus we have conflict. As long as They Are Right And Everyone Else Is Wrong there'll be trouble - that's not how communities work together.
 
Why would that end this?

People would just disagree.

There are so many totally harebrained schemes and suggestions that people will not stop flogging to death which all come together to say "people don't agree and want different styles of game".

Well, for legal types like myself, I work off from legality handed down and play with the legal room open with said publicized statements and stipulation, if they make a definitive stance, things will be be easier to work with.

The real problem is some are very very convinced they and only they are right and compromise is a word in a foreign language :( thus we have conflict. As long as They Are Right And Everyone Else Is Wrong there'll be trouble - that's not how communities work together.

Compromise is never an optimal solution yet the optimal solution people come to term with the most. If there were more people willing to compromise, great, but unfortunately unconditional aptitude for compromise exists nowhere in the black box of human condition, quite saddening.

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I used to care about PP, but not anymore. It's a waste of time. You can give me your version of Mein Kampf for keeping Archon in the fight but you will never convince me that it's hard to hold your land. The system is rigged. You CAN'T lose, even if you barely put in any effort. My faction is/was Aisling and we had flat zero coordination and we're still here. You'd have to have your ENTIRE faction sitting on their hands doing NOTHING for at least a month and a half going by the FD-approved method for faction collapse. It's statistically impossible because there will always be someone in each faction doing the PP stuff because they want the rank bonus or they like the uniform or something.

Because you weren't being targeted by many other powers and you were with the steam rolling easy mode (I don't use "easy mode" easily in my arguments, but I am using it in this case) factions (Empire in general, not including Torval) until people got bored of hating on us, good sir.

If every faction playerbase ganged up on Archon they still wouldn't be able to win, since it doesn't matter how much they undermine if you just fortify every system each week which isn't hard because Archon doesn't have many systems.

And we also don't have many supporters, surely that's a fact you'll be more than happy to ignore?

There is no way to 'go for the throat' which makes the PP 'struggle' a meaningless one. Archon will always be around, so will ALD, Hudson, Winters, Torval, etc.

If a faction is totally and completely void of activity, it'll like alert something in FD's monitoring programs. All we know for now is that every faction has enough proportionate activity to stay on the table. Also, I see keeping a power small meaningful, I guess you don't.
 
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Compromise is always the optimal solution to a problem. When it comes with consensus. Compromise is a good thing, not something to be pushed aside.
 
Compromise is always the optimal solution to a problem. When it comes with consensus. Compromise is a good thing, not something to be pushed aside.

Please refer to Robert Dahl's Who Governs? and Robert D. Putnam's Making Democracy Work.

Then contemplate how the prisoner's dilemma applies, especially on the internet and how difficult reciprocity is to establish and how easily it is shattered.

Compromise is a solution people most come to term with, that's all (And the most efficient in marketing strategy). Just as if you place a candy bar in front of two starving infants (Strangers to each other) who are unaware of any social custom, or rather won't be held responsible for knowing or caring about social custom, something pretty terrifying will happen next. If we examine the result outside of social customs, then it seems like much more of an optimal solution.

Compromise is only the optimal solution if we internalize the idea of equality and reciprocity, which are two very difficult concepts to truly integrate, especially on the internet, unfortunately.

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That's the down side of rotating shift work and 12 hour shifts. The up side is that I'm now on day one of a seven day weekend. :) Even better I just booked my tickets for my next three week overseas adventure... jetting off in two weeks time. I'll be taking my laptop though so you can be sure I won't leave you all lonely. :D

How thoughtful of you >____>

*Shivers*

Thoughtful indeed >___>
 
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