The unavoidable poll: PvP vs PvE!

[Sir.Tj]

Lets just discuss the post not the poster.

And personally I play in open and just as in life i tend to take things as they come, I'm happy doing my own thing minding my own business but it someone decides to attack a small grin appears and my hardpoints get deployed.

I really don't define myself as either PvE or PvP, just me.

And as my esteemed colleague said lets not turn this into a Vs thread or it will just get closed down.

Thanks

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I voted PvP because I don't trust polls and it had no: "I tried really hard to care but failed to do so" option

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In a multiplayer game there is only one choice: PVP.

So the option of player co-operation never crossed your mind?

 

[Sandmann]

Speculation.

No, statistics. With a population of 1,000,000 and a confidence interval of 2 (pvp or pve) you only need a sample size of 4143 to get a confidence level of 99%. Given that the member list quotes 67074 members, even if only 10% of them were active you'd still have 150% of the sample size needed for 99% confidence level.[/quote]

At no point did he suggest that Reddit is more representative, merely that the poll result might be different, you're reading into things that aren't there.

At no point did I suggest that he DID say that. I said it raised the question. I think it's YOU that's reading things in that aren't there. Perhaps you should read better.

 

[RexKraemer]

I can't vote because I can't see the difference. When I play, as usual in open since the dawn of this game, this virtual environment called space does contain NPCs and sometimes other real players like CMDRs. For me the other players seem to be part of the environment I choose to dive in to relax for a few hours a day or per week. So how to distinguish? I can't and I don't want to distinguish and break my environment into separate parts which do so perfectly harmonize. Ah yes, I remember, I died a few times because of this environment, I thought at first, but it was really because of my errors and wrong decisions and after a while I found it was just fun and it was a game I was immersed inside and I am not really dead. What a relief!

So, I refuse to vote.

By the way, I play DotA2 and THIS IS PVP! Even my team mates are aginst me! Many thanks to all of you, you are a great community!

 

[cyberus]

No it's not EVE online but i choose to play this game the same way i play EVE; in the end for me it's "EVE with cockpits". I don't want and cannot force you or another player to play the same way like me and the opposite is also true.

At This point we definitely agree. Let's everyone let play the game by they own choice.
I like both aspects of the game... Play both as wel when I feel more towards one or other.

What I don't like is that lots of other players is trying to push other players towards they suitable gameplay.... And I'm glad that FD don't listening to them and leave the game as it is. Suitable for both.

 

[GluttonyFang]

No, statistics. With a population of 1,000,000 and a confidence interval of 2 (pvp or pve) you only need a sample size of 4143 to get a confidence level of 99%. Given that the member list quotes 67074 members, even if only 10% of them were active you'd still have 150% of the sample size needed for 99% confidence level.

Except that unless we are sampling the entirety of the actual player base, it's easily shot down with bias or relative inaccuracy.

At no point did I suggest that he DID say that. I said it raised the question. I think it's YOU that's reading things in that aren't there. Perhaps you should read better.

I don't think I suggested that you should read better, also, you are raising a question that the original author has no intention of implying.

 

[biohazard15]

That's easy - PVE. PVP has absolutely no meaning for me.

 

[bamber]

I couldn't care less to be honest - if I am interdicted by a ship I will fight or flight dependant upon if I think I can win or not

If its a SJA creation or a player has no bearing on my decision

 

[rav archer]

PVE = ultra boring
PVP = everything can happends when you decide to fight.

So theres only one choice

 

[DNA-Decay]

Another unavoidable pole.

Don't drink drive folks - it's a washing powder.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

For me PvE is more important than PvP, but that doesn't mean that PvP is something that should get removed from the game.
Most of the time in ED I don't see other players in Open Mode. What I do is PvE - trading, exploring and most of the combat. Since it's how I spend most of the time - and I guess a lot of players even those who consider themselves PvP players - I think PvE is the most important aspect of the game.
PvE should be really good and then PvP can get better and more interesting. It's like getting the foundation right to be able to build a house (or the foundation and the house to build a roof).

In a multiplayer game there is only one choice: PVP.

There are multiplayer games that are purely PvE. Multiplayer isn't a synonymous for PvP - it was in the times of Doom and Quake, it isn't anymore.

 

[Sandmann]

Except that unless we are sampling the entirety of the actual player base, it's easily shot down with bias or relative inaccuracy.

As is the case with ANY poll. None the less they remain the only metric we have for opinion.

I don't think I suggested that you should read better, also, you are raising a question that the original author has no intention of implying.

I don't think I claimed that you made any such suggestion. Indeed -I- made the suggestion that -you- should read better, since you were apparently doing exactly what you'd accused me of doing - reading things in that aren't there.

Yes, I -am- raising a question that the original author had no intention of implying... so what? Are you suggesting that I'm not permitted to raise questions?

 

[Patrick_68000]

Let's try not let this descend into another solo v open fight, eh?

Feel free to vote, but not belittle others' gaming choices.

Memories of previous debates

 

[Arubeto]

Meaningless. Forum polls are by their nature limited to a subset of players, self-selecting, and gameable. Only FD knows what proportion of time players spend in each mode, and so far they're keeping that information to themselves. You know where this thread will go. In before the descent and lock.

Well, I mentioned that the poll can't be representative of the whole player base, but it's still much better than all those unfunded "most players want this or this" claims one can read all the time.

It's also don't meant to be a slugfest, I hope people will remain civil in here. I just want to get an idea of where the priorities lie for people without resorting to ""PvP is the only playstyle in MP games" (like the first response did) or "everyone just wants PvE!" statements that are based on nothing but personal impressions.

 

[Kazacy]

So the option of player co-operation never crossed your mind?

Yeah i know that option but in the end is too boring to fight against AI in any game i played. Against the AI after you found the "weak" spot you always win.

 

[Yaffle]

As both my honourable colleague T.j and I have said before - keep it civil.

Thank you

 

[GluttonyFang]

As is the case with ANY poll. None the less they remain the only metric we have for opinion.

Well, we can implement a poll system within the game itself and see what people think, but FD doesn't seem too keen on doing that nor showing us the number.

If you want to do a study, are we playing with Bernoulli or Poisson sampling? What kind of inclusion probability are you working with, what determines the grid of the sample space? Do we utilize Markov Chain to keep track of those that fluctuate between the two? What kind of variance and expected value are we going to conclude for those special cases?

If you really want to do this, you might as well be as concise as possible. Mathematics isn't my strong suit, but I can tell the difference between a sophisticated study and a haphazard one.

Edit:

Anyone can do straight math, but if we want to keep track of the psychological development and possible fluctuation of a player's preference, we need a lot more preliminaries.

I don't think I claimed that you made any such suggestion. Indeed -I- made the suggestion that -you- should read better, since you were apparently doing exactly what you'd accused me of doing - reading things in that aren't there.

I'm reading the syntax of the sentence, it's a prescriptive utterance following a denotative utterance, also, tu quoque anyone?

Yes, I -am- raising a question that the original author had no intention of implying... so what? Are you suggesting that I'm not permitted to raise questions?

Talk about reading into things, and no, I suggested nothing.

 

[Arubeto]

I wonder what results you'd get on reddit, my impression has always been that it's far more popular with PVPers

This is exactly the kind of statement that I call "unfunded". Yes, I may have the feeling that there are more PvPers on Reddit than here, but until I see a Reddit poll backing up this statement, it's nothing more than speculation.

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I know the OP wanted the poll to be "pure", but my honest opinion is "both". That was what they originally described (and still do) and that is what I like. The choice to do a little bit of both while still staying in the same gameworld instead of jumping between alternate dimensions.

This is very true.

I voted PvP because it is such a fun, exciting and important pat of the game but for me the question is a false dichotomy.

I want to play and enjoy all parts of the game and that is what I would really want to vote for.

Everyone should play how they want, but I believe that the gameplay is better when everything is included.

Well, I didn't ask for what players want to play, but for a priority among the listed playstyles - that's the reason I didn't include the "both" option, because that would be an answer to a different question.

 

[Sandmann]

Well, we can implement a poll system within the game itself and see what people think, but FD doesn't seem too keen on doing that nor showing us the number.

If you want to do a study, are we playing with Bernoulli or Poisson sampling? What kind of inclusion probability are you working with, what determines the grid of the sample space? Do we utilize Markov Chain to keep track of those that fluctuate between the two? What kind of variance and expected value are we going to conclude for those special cases?

If you really want to do this, you might as well be as concise as possible. Mathematics isn't my strong suit, but I can tell the difference between a sophisticated study and a haphazard one.

Such a study isn't possible because - as you point out - the hard numbers simply aren't available. I'd be happy to see such a study conducted, but it's not in FDev's best interests so I strongly doubt they'd release the data. I agree the results in these polls are EXTREMELY haphazard... but they're also extremely reliable in that they keep on turning out the same numbers. That MAY be because PvP-ers don't inhabit this forum and that it attracts PvE-ers, but to postulate such you'd need to come up with some evidence for it. Failing having any evidence it's unreasonable to assume that the forum population ISN'T representative.

I'm reading the syntax of the sentence

Well stop. Just read the sentence and stop trying to be clever.

Talk about reading into things, and no, I suggested nothing.

Are you accusing me AGAIN of "reading things in" because I asked ANOTHER question? You really DON'T like me asking questions, do you?

 

[GluttonyFang]

This is exactly the kind of statement that I call "unfunded". Yes, I may have the feeling that there are more PvPers on Reddit than here, but until I see a Reddit poll backing up this statement, it's nothing more than speculation.

So I don't see the point of this poll other than re-affirming that this forum has more PvE players than PvP players.