The Wasted Potential of ED

[Cosmo]

I don't agree with everything that Nyxson says, but he has some valid criticism.

Nyxson:
Plus points
1. Beautiful experience and graphics (wallpaper engine),
2. Virtual reality is amazing, but no VR support for on-foot gameplay in Odyssey.

Minus points
1. Insane grind for (engineer) upgrades, even for people who like to grind.
2. Necessary information about prices in other star systems is unavailable in-game. Players need third party tools to see the best and most lucrative buy/sell prices and round-trips.
3. The first-person-shooter stuff is bad compared to Halo, CoD and even Fortnite.
4. A gigantic galaxy, yet only a tiny percentage is used. The travel time through the galaxy compared to the amount of activities are difficult to justify.
5. There's almost no in-game story development except little excerpts that players must piece together.

Suggestions in the comments:

NONSTOPPE9
"There are a few ways to fix this. Some of them might sound very complex but I think they can do it with their very small team.
-Introducing an AI voice system for all the characters to make it feel lively
-live companions, you can get companions in the game but there is no content, liveliness, or anything beneficial other than controlling some guns for you. Better Faction Wars for example in the Oddessey DLC they could add on-planet fights and create warzones within the game.
-Adding a better mission system, with better pay, which can make it an alternative to grinding the combat or mining in the game
-New types of missions for example exploration missions, maybe where they will pay you to explore more or to reach a final system, so you can get the cartographic money + the mission rewards
-Rank Up missions and Permit missions that give you the following as rewards
-Lighten the Grind by creating a more robust mission system and increasing the rewards as you rank up for example being an elite could give you a better reward than the Novice
-And finally optimizing the game"

mojeiglu​

"players: we want new ships. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want ship interiors. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want to actually build bases. FD: no you don't want to
players: we want to explore new things in space... FD: no you don't want to
FD: you want to fight on bases. players: no, we don't want to..."


Update: Nyxson made a second video about how to save ED:

 

[HappyMoonMonkey]

Insane grind for (engineer) upgrades, even for people who like to grind.

One again I hear this. Once again the response is, why bother? The only necessary QoL engineer upgrade is the FSD engineering. All activities in game can be played at some level with no engineering. Like everything in this game this is just something to do rather something that you need to do.

There's no end game. There's no perfect ship. Stop grinding for what isn't there.

Necessary information about prices in other star systems is unavailable ingame. Players must use third party tools.

It is, but the third party told are better so likely you've never looked for the in game solution.



The suggestion are ok otherwise but:

Adding a better mission system, with better pay, which can make it an alternative to grinding the combat or mining in the game

Missions pay up to 50m or materials. What else did you want?

exploration missions, maybe where they will pay you to explore more or to reach a final system, so you can get the cartographic money + the mission rewards

These exist already.

Rank Up missions and Permit missions that give you the following as rewards

These also exist.

increasing the rewards as you rank up for example being an elite could give you a better reward than the Novice

Also exists already.

optimizing the game

A lot has happened since Odyssey released. It could always be better but if you're having problems, are you running it in a potato? Or just not played the game for 2 years?

players: we want new ships. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want ship interiors. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want to actually build bases. FD: no you don't want to
players: we want to explore new things in space... FD: no you don't want to
FD: you want to fight on bases. players: no, we don't want to..."

This would all be lovely and FDev have not said no, they've just not done these things. Yes, we would like them.

 

[Brrokk]

Improvement is always good and some bug fixes and QoL improvements would be great (as well as some QA to stop old bugs coming back). A lot of the things suggested in OP though (e.g. exploration passenger missions) do actually exist. And mission-running is already lucrative compared to vanilla trade/combat if you know how to find the right missions. The whole want list seems a bit uninformed, and the claims about what "players" (all of them?) want are off-target.

 

[Cosmo]

Once again the response is, why bother? The only necessary QoL engineer upgrade is the FSD engineering. All activities in game can be played at some level with no engineering. Like everything in this game this is just something to do rather something that you need to do.

Many players quit playing due to the insane grind of ED. Why bother indeed when there's other games that better respect a player's free time. Only a small percentage are active players. The recent Steam reviews are 55% positive, which is an improvement though.

Missions pay up to 50m or materials. What else did you want?

That list was written by NONSTOPPE9. Imo all materials should be available as rewards via missions.

 

[TheRoninX]

I don't agree with everything that Nyxson says, but he has some valid criticism.

Plus points
1. Beautiful experience and graphics (wallpaper engine),
2. Virtual reality is amazing, but no VR support in Odyssey.

Minus points
1. Insane grind for (engineer) upgrades, even for people who like to grind.
2. Necessary information about prices in other star systems is unavailable in-game. Players must use third party tools.
3. The first-person-shooter stuff is bad compared to Halo, CoD and even Fortnite.
4. A gigantic galaxy, yet only a tiny percentage is used. The travel time through the galaxy compared to the amount of activities are difficult to justify.
5. There's almost no in-game story development except little excerpts that players must piece together.

Suggestions in the comments:

NONSTOPPE9
"There are a few ways to fix this. Some of them might sound very complex but I think they can do it with their very small team.
-Introducing an AI voice system for all the characters to make it feel lively
-live companions, you can get companions in the game but there is no content, liveliness, or anything beneficial other than controlling some guns for you. Better Faction Wars for example in the Oddessey DLC they could add on-planet fights and create warzones within the game.
-Adding a better mission system, with better pay, which can make it an alternative to grinding the combat or mining in the game
-New types of missions for example exploration missions, maybe where they will pay you to explore more or to reach a final system, so you can get the cartographic money + the mission rewards
-Rank Up missions and Permit missions that give you the following as rewards
-Lighten the Grind by creating a more robust mission system and increasing the rewards as you rank up for example being an elite could give you a better reward than the Novice
-And finally optimizing the game"

mojeiglu​

"players: we want new ships. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want ship interiors. FD: no, you don't want to
players: we want to actually build bases. FD: no you don't want to
players: we want to explore new things in space... FD: no you don't want to
FD: you want to fight on bases. players: no, we don't want to..."

I don't disagree with this.

 

[HappyMoonMonkey]

insane grind

But I'm still confused. What are you grinding for that makes you hate the game?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

If you think ED's grind is bad you should avoid FO76.
Information on prices in other star systems is unnecessary.
The FPS add on isn't as good as dedicated shooters? No, really?
Only a small portion of the galaxy is used? Certain individuals complain the Bubble is too big.
Welcome to MMOs...

 

[Sera Scratch]

Yea, the grind for Engineering is such a massive turn off. So much so that players literally sit at the crash site, scan, log out, log in, scan and repeat. Real fun and engaging gameplay right there. And let me preempt the "Well you don't have to" people, no, you technically don't have to. Just like you don't have to boot up the game. But if you want to do, say CZ's, you will NEED engineering, Thargoids too. Want to jump a respectable distance? Need engineering on that FSD and light weight everything. Not doing so is literally handicapping yourself. Way I see it the problem is Mats aren't easy to come by. Mission rewards give you like 2-4 Grade 5's if they're even offered, collecting mats like the scans is such a pain in the ass people feel compelled to just farm them because they're not organically available.

I agree with alot of the other points, though some points are in the game already. A personal gripe I have is the ship selection. Some ships are straight trash-tier while some others (ahem...Cutter) are literally must haves. Doesn't help that some are locked behind factions. I'm a Federation gal, I don't want to be allied with the stinky empire. But sucks to be me because they have the best ships in the game. Meanwhile Alliance has some real poo-tier ships.

 

[Jack Winter]

I find that the shields and the jetpack makes the FPS aspect different and quite a lot of fun.

 

[Brrokk]

... players literally sit at the crash site, scan, log out, log in, scan and repeat. ...

It sounds terrible; so terrible that I'd never play a game where I had to do that. Luckily I manage to play ED without doing this.

But we've had this debate many times:-

• Arrgh, the horrible relog grind!
• Don't do it then.
• But how do you get the shiny stuff?
• Just pick up materials as you play.
• But it's not efficient. It delays my combat/affects my ship build/takes longer to get stuff.
• But it's more fun and good gameplay.
• But I want the stuff now and I'd rather do the relog.
• OK, but don't blame the game for what you choose to do to yourself.

 

[Old Duck]

Many players quit playing due to the insane grind of ED. Why bother indeed when there's other games that better respect a player's free time.

I've been enjoying ED: Legacy again, doing some BGS stuff. My newest ship is a Viper, which has absolutely zero engineered modules except for a power plant I won in a very fun CG months (years?) ago. I'm having a ball flying this Viper. Ironically part of the fun is the fact that it is NOT engineered, which means everything is more challenging in a fun and realistic way.

Now I will confess that it was super quick and easy to assemble this Viper due to my access to Jameson Memorial, so a newer player might have to work a little harder to find the stations that have all the modules they are interested in, but I still wouldn't call it a grind by any means.

 

[Urbanski101]

Stop grinding for what isn't there.

OMG...we're still doing this?

Been seeing this same circular argument for years.

I disagree with some parts of the video but he is broadly right...I have my own theories about where ED went wrong and continues to go wrong but it's a largely academic debate anyway. ED is what it is, the development cycle is mostly over and the fundamentals of the game won't change. Just the odd patch here and there, perhaps a re-work of one aspect which has been suggested, some more storyline etc.

It continues to be a fun game and one I loved dearly and like to revisit from time to time. There is nothing out there even now that's even touches it for just that pure spaceflight fix. It's just a shame it never really reached anything like it's potential. I'm not talking about atmospheric planets or walking on ELWs or any of that dreamland stuff, just the core game loops were so basic and never really evolved.

 

[metatheurgist]

Dirty secret about engineering - you don't need G5. G4 is like 80-90% of the way there and it's pretty easy to get. G3 pretty much falls in your lap. Unless you PvP you don't need those last %.

If you grind because you want G5 (nau!), that's on you.

I'm not talking about atmospheric planets or walking on ELWs or any of that dreamland stuff, just the core game loops were so basic and never really evolved.

 

[Star Wanderer]

One look at his channel and one can find tons of other Clickbait videos. The guy is just fishing for money nothing more.

 

[Danieros]

This view of the engineering as the goal, instead of the journey is what makes so many folks skip a game with unique replayability. So many folks that I've heard wouldn't engineer at all, afraid of the grind. So they struggle with content.

That said, Frontier doesn't put a lot of focus on the game features that have endless content - stuff like exploration, BGS, CQC and Powerplay are content that just keep going. Plus the super unique gameplay that is racing.

 

[Thatchinho]

2. Necessary information about prices in other star systems is unavailable in-game. Players must use third party tools.

Got to say that this point is absolutely false.

Firstly, the info about prices in other start systems is not ‘necessary’.

And no players don’t need to use third party tools. (I played very happily for months and months without even knowing they existed, so I know first hand it’s absolute nonsense to say that players have to use them.)

The whole thing has nothing to do with necessity, and it has everything to do with wanting ease and convenience, and basically to play without having to put in any real effort.

Here’s why these demands for ease and convenience are an issue for the game:

1. Fundamentally, the game universe is not supposed to revolve around the ease and convenience of Pilots Federation members. It is supposed to be a universe where long vested powers hold sway (even within the Pilots Federation itself) and where things are concealed, and deception, propaganda, and manipulation are rife.
2. The game should reward people who put in the effort. The demands in question are to strip away any need to build up knowledge and experience in the area in question and to reduce it to lowest common denominator gameplay which rewards mindless repetitive play. In other words they’re demands for grind.

I wouldn’t be going on about this so much but it’s supposed to be a thread about wasted potential, and one moment it’s complaining about grind, and the next moment it’s making out that the game not being made more mindless and grindy is wasted potential.

The rest of the points are pretty half-baked as well.

I mean it’s almost like the person in question hasn’t really given and of it any actual though and has just jumped on every whine bandwagon they can find. But nah, that definitely couldn’t be the case, why would anyone do that? (/s)

 

[The Lawful]

There is complete VR support in Odyssey too, so I think you simply never tried it. It's just not extended beyond the features of Legacy, but as a bonus, you still got the Ext Cam even on planets and on-foot in general. And it looks way better IMHO.

Oh, just checked, it's a plus point in your list. Weird still, I think both of you are wrong. VR is great in Odyssey.

O7,

 

[Montague]

I used to think this game screamed potential, but now I'm the one screaming.

 

[Cosmo]

There is complete VR support in Odyssey too, so I think you simply never tried it.

There is no full support for on-foot VR in Odyssey.

 

[Planewalker]

The first one about lowering expectations i must admit had some merit.
This one, not so much. -"the grind" is and always will be, a personal choice, not a need.

An old grumpy man in a village was known for being grumpy and hence everyone avoided him.
On his 80th birthday rumor was that he was suddenly happy, so he was asked:
"Why are you suddenly happy?"
"Because i stopped chasing happiness."
Yes cheesy and whatnot but it gets the point across.

Fine enough to want betterment, pipelining potential potential not so much.
(succinct point about setting free the things you care for)