The X-Rebirth Thread

[Brian]

As with most software, on release there will be bugs - expect them. Egosoft have always been good with sorting these out quickly with a few updates. Egosoft's fantastic modding community will also be a great help in that regard. As for the controls, I think it was just designed to be mouse and keyboard only.

As for the game itself, I have not bought it, however from the YouTube videos that I have watched, it does look like the universe has shrunk drastically. I don't like the idea of being funneled in those highway thingys, and it just looks a bit too cartoony for me.

I do like the idea of being able to run around on foot though.

Brian

 

[Oss133]

Interesting game launch with all the discussion it has produced, but I really see little reason why we should discuss it on the Elite: Dangerous General forum. These are two different games by two different developers. They will _not_ be the same, so why worry about them being the same?

Great Minds... and all that.

 

[Herik]

Err? wait a minute ...

"communicate with community" you say? So, a load of YT videos on "X Rebirth - Features explained" through the months prior meant nothing then? Ahhh... so visual and audible communication is not enough? I get it. direct neuro-net upload next time then? Got to be better right? As for pre-order, as a follower the information Egosoft were giving out and as a player of their games, I had a real good idea of what I was pre-ordering, strange you didn't? Real strange that.

I agree PacalB; I followed the early videos and have (attempted to play) the earlier releases of the X universe games. I'm only playing the Campaign, but have had almost no problems doing so! I see the niggling complaints people are talking about, but have not had any of the major problems people are talking about. No CTD's, no fps problems. I suspect these are in the other part of the game-The 'freeplay'. Yes of course we'd like every release of a game to be perfect. Sorry folks! this is just the way things are; Egosoft has a very good record of listening to their purchasers and they will nail down the major bugs in the part of the game I haven't played yet....

 

[warbaby2]

Meh... the X games always have been incredibly dull and formulaic... not to mention overly complicated. The moment they announced to remove the ability to pilot other ships and replace it with walking in stations, I knew it would only get worse... Even in the preview vids, everything looked samey and boring.

 

[Styggron]

David would NEVER let such a thing happen.

ED will be fine and it is in the BEST possible hands.

 

[Zak Gordon]

I think it is good advice (and i strongly suspect any design team and designer will always keep a close eye on the competition) to have a look at the game in relation to the development of Elite: Dangerous.

I believe it was Steam only or some such, so that kept me away from the X: Rebirth, even though i have played and enjoyed all the other X games (X2 plus mods being my favourite). But yeah after the initial frenzy of excitement and good press the game was getting, the response now that people have it in their hands is very sad.

I wonder why Egosoft released it in this state? Were they rushing to be first past the post in terms of the other games in this genre that are coming soon? (Elite, SC, LT etc)

Craig (a Space sim fan) at RPS was also not impressed:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/15/x-rebirth-preview/

Still when you have to focus SO MUCH DEV EFFORT on the GRAPHICS (particularly in a 'sandbox' type open ended game), this is what nearly always happens imho.

 

[KING5TON]

I've played a few hours this weekend, really enjoyed it. It's not Elite but it's still a good space game.
I didn't play much of the previous X games, just a few hours here and there so maybe coming to it without any preconceived ideas is the way to go.

 

[sproggit]

Apart from the bugs, why are the game mechanics and production quality a surprise? I mean it was all obvious how it would be from the preview videos and trailers.

I honestly don't get these complaints and IMO it's blown out of proportion.

The Production Quality is a disappointing surprise because the last few Egosoft releases have become steadily better over the years. Anything from X3:Reunion onwards has been very, very solid.

But the real issues relate to fundamentally bad decisions about the design of the game...

1. I did not see, prior to launch, the truly awful dialogue options for interacting with NPCs. There is an entire chapter of how not to design a game that could be written there.

2. Nowhere prior to launch to ES even hint that previously very effective solutions ("T" for 'Target') would be thrown away. The game has been written to be console game-pad friendly, and it's a huge mistake. By all means have features for console players, but abstract out the control interface and preserve keyboard short-cuts for PC gamers...

3. In the pre-release videos, there is one where Bernd talks about scale, and the Dev Team's desire to make the player "feel small" (recognise the scale of the universe). They tried to achieve this with things like:-

- Crawling around in service tunnels on stations. Utterly pointless.
- Having *huge* stations. Very pretty. Now try to find somewhere to dock. Pointless.
- Introducing highways to convey the scale of a solar system/sector. Clumsy. Pointless.

It's such a shame. Visually the game is a treat. The energy fields around jump gates, in particular, look stunning. But the sad truth is that playing has become, well, clumsy. And pretty much all of that can be attributed to poor design decisions.

 

[munkor]

agree with you completely, but unfortunately that is not all that's wrong with it

 

[KING5TON]

Any game I've bought in recent memory has the exact same things happening in regards to their forums.

Worst game ever!
Runs like crap!
I demand a refund!
Fix the bugs!
Crashes all the time!
This is worse than the previous games!

over and over and over and over again.
No body is ever happy anymore or they seem to have developed a weird sense of entitlement. I don't really get it.

I'm willing to bet that when E: D releases (even in gamma) that these forums will be filled with whine too.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Hi Guys, I'm going to merge this thread into the Main X thread.

Although it was originally a request to Frontier, the subject has seemed to become more focused on the X game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Any game I've bought in recent memory has the exact same things happening in regards to their forums.

Worst game ever!
Runs like crap!
I demand a refund!
Fix the bugs!
Crashes all the time!
This is worse than the previous games!

over and over and over and over again.
No body is ever happy anymore or they seem to have developed a weird sense of entitlement. I don't really get it.

I'm willing to bet that when E: D releases (even in gamma) that these forums will be filled with whine too.

I think it's overgeneralization. In overall I agree with you. Internet is unfortunately just a sea of people with few of them having megaphones. Even fewer are willing to use them. But those who are sometimes very annoying and non-constructive, which can spoil conversation and discussion for others. So, it is expected to have massive complains about bugs, or game features implemented a little different than gamers hoped dev would be.

However, in normal cases this is just a background which we can filter out. For example, yes, people complaining about PlayStation 4 for example. It was funny how traditional media tried to have something "interesting" in their articles and mentioned, ohh yeah, there's ****storm in Twitter about PS4 not working. However, I also seen already 5 highly visible people having plain fun with that box, and while having little irks there and here, overall it's very solid gaming platform.

In case of XR however problem is that almost no one with megaphone is satisfied, and that works like multiplier. There are good share of release bugs which is regular from Egosoft. Having bugs in code in fine. Having beta level bugs - not so. But those can be still fixed. However it piles up and can cause friction within community if game mechanics causes problems.

And problem is - they do. Even taking away complaining about changing game play formula, still new features have lot of bugs and inconsistencies. And that makes that last dam to collapse. They simply should have take larger and longer beta. Knowing risks, they shouldn't have release game in current state. They were obviously rushed by publisher's hand due of incoming ED and SC alpha tests, and ED release in spring.

People will complain about ED. Heck, here's threads going on for 50 pages already about some core decisions. That's cool, disagreement is part of our lives. But my guess we won't see such fallout - if we as community will test it trough.

 

[Juniper]

No body is ever happy anymore or they seem to have developed a weird sense of entitlement. I don't really get it.

I'm willing to bet that when E: D releases (even in gamma) that these forums will be filled with whine too.

People have paid a sizeable amount of money for XR (myself included). It is not just buggy - it is completely unfinished. Ask David Braben and Gametek about the FFE release fiasco to see what that did to their (and Elite's) reputation. This was nearly 20 years ago, and there was practically no internet then for people to whine on.

The lack of joystick support is a good example of why this game shouldn't have been released.

It's not a "weird sense of entitlement" - it's a natural reaction from people who have paid good money to effectively alpha/beta test a product they have bought in good faith as the finished article. All that should have been done prior to release... before any money exchanged hands.

So whilst the internet does give undue power to any rabid kid with a keyboard, and they will rant and rave etc, there is an underlying valid argument here.

 

[Jax]

What really got me was this - from the X-Rebirth home page:

X Rebirth features a whole new user experience - it is easier than ever to start with, and remains as deep as fans expect it.

I could live with the new interface - grudgingly, I can ignore the mini-games, but the depth of the game has gone. Bits of it have been given over to AI which seems to have a mind of its own, but when they do work you just will not have the depth of previous games.

And some may say this is not X4 - that comment above certainly does lead you to believe it is.

 

[Lestat]

Sorry to hear so many people disappointments. on the game. I went with my gut and pick companies I know and trust. So I went with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen. I still like Elite better.

 

[PacalB]

People have paid a sizeable amount of money for XR (myself included). It is not just buggy - it is completely unfinished. Ask David Braben and Gametek about the FFE release fiasco to see what that did to
their (and Elite's) reputation. This was nearly 20 years ago, and there was practically no internet then for people to whine on.

The lack of joystick support is a good example of why this game shouldn't have been released.

It's not a "weird sense of entitlement" - it's a natural reaction from people who have paid good money to effectively alpha/beta test a product they have bought in good faith as the finished article. All that should have been done prior to release... before any money exchanged hands.

So whilst the internet does give undue power to any rabid kid with a keyboard, and they will rant and rave etc, there is an underlying valid argument here.

Having a "valid arguments" are one thing, acting like complete ats is another. Also, I am now 25 hours into the game, why the hell am I not ranting like a twit if this game is so full of major alpha/beta bugs? I consider myself a bit of a hardcore gamer, so why am I not slamming this game against the electronic wall in frustration? Could it be that maybe all these bugs I keep hearing about are not that serious? Why am I not seeing them time and time again to the point where it is unplayable? I mean as you say it's; "effectively an alpha/beta test product" yes?

As for FFE back in the day, I remember being frustrated back then, I remember getting on the phone to Gametek support and getting my little blue floppy disk sent out in the post time and time again, until it was playable. For the time, Gametek pulled all their fingers out to fix the product and then the game shone like the star it was. Seriously, I think some people just love to whine and throw their toys out of the pram.

I don't know where you get off calling X:R an alpha/beta test product, I've alpha/beta tested many games in the past and this thing even with the bugs isn't that. This whining is built on pure exaggeration and I can't wait to see how some of you lot are going to react when ED trips up from time to time. And for those that think it won't, that it is sprinkled with some kind of "magic dust" that will make it invulnerable to hickups ... well ... you're in dreamland, you need to get real, smell the ozone and get with the program and complexity of some computer games.

Lastly, the thing that really erks me, is this "right" that some feel they have to rant and rave like utter lunatics at the dev teams. Like dev teams deliberately push games out the door to frustrate people? It makes me sick to see some of the hostile comments that go on on some of the forums towards the devs ... over a game for christ sake? I don't think that kind of ranting is acceptable personally.

 

[Commander Mick]

X-Superbox arrived via the mail today and I am about to install the first game on there right now.....

 

[Lestat]

The one thing notice Elite Dangerous is getting more funding when X Rebirth Failed.

 

[Juniper]

Having a "valid arguments" are one thing, acting like complete ats is another.

Indeed. Oh, the irony...

Also, I am now 25 hours into the game, why the hell am I not ranting like a twit if this game is so full of major alpha/beta bugs? I consider myself a bit of a hardcore gamer, so why am I not slamming this game against the electronic wall in frustration? Could it be that maybe all these bugs I keep hearing about are not that serious? Why am I not seeing them time and time again to the point where it is unplayable? I mean as you say it's; "effectively an alpha/beta test product" yes?

Yes. As I said (not ranted or raved, merely stated) you cannot play the game with a joystick despite the fact that the game allegedly supports it. It's not bugged - just not finished. Alpha code.

As for FFE back in the day, I remember being frustrated back then, I remember getting on the phone to Gametek support and getting my little blue floppy disk sent out in the post time and time again, until it was playable. For the time, Gametek pulled all their fingers out to fix the product and then the game shone like the star it was. Seriously, I think some people just love to whine and throw their toys out of the pram.

I'm sure you're right on the last statement. However, the reason FFE was such a mess at launch was entirely down to Gametek. Not David Braben or Frontier. They pushed the product out before it was ready... and it was only the huge backlash in the media and press that forced them to act. Not your phone calls... sorry. So, the "whiners" (or people who just want to get what they paid for) won in the end.

I don't know where you get off calling X:R an alpha/beta test product, I've alpha/beta tested many games in the past and this thing even with the bugs isn't that. This whining is built on pure exaggeration and I can't wait to see how some of you lot are going to react when ED trips up from time to time. And for those that think it won't, that it is sprinkled with some kind of "magic dust" that will make it invulnerable to hickups ... well ... you're in dreamland, you need to get real, smell the ozone and get with the program and complexity of some computer games.

Sigh... you may be a "hard core gamer", but I'm a software developer, and started by writing games more than 25 years ago. So I'm well aware of the complexity involved, thanks. I'm also well aware that the customer / user is paramount... because if I wasn't, I'd very quickly lose my job.

Lastly, the thing that really erks me, is this "right" that some feel they have to rant and rave like utter lunatics at the dev teams. Like dev teams deliberately push games out the door to frustrate people? It makes me sick to see some of the hostile comments that go on on some of the forums towards the devs ... over a game for christ sake? I don't think that kind of ranting is acceptable personally.

I agree, it's not the devs fault. Except for the fact that they self-publish, and therefore have some control over when they release the game.

It was pushed out early for commercial reasons. E: D, LT and later SC are close on the horizon... there is a limited window for any additional space sim. They're well aware of that. I think the cynicism of this release is the most galling of all.

Still, glad you're enjoying it. Leave off the insults though, eh? Many people are still having issues, and are perfectly within their rights to complain about it.

 

[Jax]

Could it be that maybe all these bugs I keep hearing about are not that serious?

Constant crashes to desktop, corrupt save games, poor performance on high end rigs, game interface ceasing to work.....these are serious issues. Maybe you have been lucky. Bernd has posted on the forums about what they are doing next to tackle these issues and in one of them (the high end rigs issue) he states:

We will be tackling this issue aggresively and will be stocking up on high end hardware for tests, to try out things like SLI and.......

So it wasn't tested on SLI before release???

I agree a lot of posts on the Ego/Steam forums are vile, but for me a majority of them are born from disappointment and frustration. I wanted XR to be the next X, as deep as those before - and was led to believe by Ego that it was going to be - just wrapped up in a shiny new package to make it easier for newer players.

They seem to have taken 7 years to take the series back a step (and in terms of depth quite a number of steps) and to make it dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience. So yes, I am disappointed and frustrated by the game, but not angry or being vile. They have a decent graphics engine (though not yet optimised), and the modding community are already pulling the game apart to try and remove the annoying "features" and even put back in some of the depth. I hope it gets sorted as I wanted to play it as well as ED. They are different beasts in a genre I've always loved.