Modes These arguments are tedious.

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You know, people make these threads and they all end up rehashing the same crap.

Here's the bottom line: If something must be incentivized, it's probably not very fun to begin with. People don't choose to fight. If given a choice, people choose conflict avoidance, and this game gives people that choice and the answer is clear. As much as it pains me to say this being the socialist that I am, this game makes a strong case for radical individual freedom and anarchy being forces for peace, because conflict is not rational. The argument then is players must be given something to fight for. Huh? All things being equal it's obvious most players would rather just carry on about their business.

I would really like people to dig in and analyze that argument being made here, that there must be incentive for people to play in Open and engage in PvP. Why must it be necessary to incentivize something? Is that something not good enough to stand on its own merits? No? Then it's a bad idea. Why must boxers be paid so much money? Because, being hit in the face sucks. It's a bad idea. I suppose some people love it, but I wouldn't call that normal. And yet, some people really do love it. More power to them! Go on and enjoy your receiving and inflicting of pain, but for crying out loud don't stand there and insist there should be incentives for it.

Elite is a triumph of rationalism in an industry full of stories and practices that don't make a lick of sense. Can we keep it that way?

And why am I suddenly reading this to myself with an Irish accent?


Well said, 1000 lbs of Cubeo Razorback Bacon
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
You know, people make these threads and they all end up rehashing the same crap.

Here's the bottom line: If something must be incentivized, it's probably not very fun to begin with. People don't choose to fight. If given a choice, people choose conflict avoidance, and this game gives people that choice and the answer is clear. As much as it pains me to say this being the socialist that I am, this game makes a strong case for radical individual freedom and anarchy being forces for peace, because conflict is not rational. The argument then is players must be given something to fight for. Huh? All things being equal it's obvious most players would rather just carry on about their business.

I would really like people to dig in and analyze that argument being made here, that there must be incentive for people to play in Open and engage in PvP. Why must it be necessary to incentivize something? Is that something not good enough to stand on its own merits? No? Then it's a bad idea. Why must boxers be paid so much money? Because, being hit in the face sucks. It's a bad idea. I suppose some people love it, but I wouldn't call that normal. And yet, some people really do love it. More power to them! Go on and enjoy your receiving and inflicting of pain, but for crying out loud don't stand there and insist there should be incentives for it.

Elite is a triumph of rationalism in an industry full of stories and practices that don't make a lick of sense. Can we keep it that way?

And why am I suddenly reading this to myself with an Irish accent?

Because PvP is part of this game and it has no content atm. It has to be put in use, otherwise its only used for salt.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The bad press? You mean the likely handful of stories in second rate gaming publications about angry nerds getting their panties in a bunch because their game changed a little? Because that's the only place it will be "covered", and it's how such things are generally portrayed.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Likely yes.... :)

We'll see what, if anything, Frontier changes in the game with regard to the topic of this discussion in due course - noting that they have a habit of adding content for as many modes as it is applicable in rather than removing content from them.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Don't get me wrong, I don't think any major changes to the game's fundamental structure are forthcoming, but if they were...

Threats of lawsuits and whatnot are just silly and ineffective.

Besides, I've never actually seen them advertise solo mode as a feature.

The closest thing I've seen is where they say you can fly alone or with friends.

Many take this to mean solo mode, but it could easily be applied to open.

I fly alone all the time in open.

The only thing they explicitly advertise are private groups, and these are advertised as a social feature.

If you want to play alone in your own private group, that's ok.

But it's a little sad.

It's been advertised for some time, here: www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/wings - specifically the last paragraph.

WINGS
FLY ALONE, OR WITH FRIENDS AS PART OF A WING

Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous' vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.

Whether you experience the open multi-player galaxy on your own or in a Wing where you can stay connected to a group of your buddies as you share in jointly-earned spoils, the connected galaxy delivers a constant source of new opportunities and people to play with and against.

In Solo play you can choose never meet another human player, yet the results of your actions still contribute to economy, politics and conflicts of the connected galaxy, and you experience the echoes of their activity.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Ha! Great example!

It's almost as if they're embarrassed by solo mode, so they buried its only mention under an advert for wings!

Classic!

Besides, if they yanked solo mode but left in private groups, nothing fundamental would change, just the label.

But how many people do you think would flip out and scream about it before they bothered to figure it out for themselves? [haha]

That's the most specific mention of Solo that I've found, however, by the lack of mention of mode in this quote, all players in any of the modes are included: www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay

INFLUENCE THE CONNECTED GALAXY
Do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite. Travel through the galaxy between giant starport trading hubs, where you can buy new ships, trade, take on missions and upgrade your spacecraft.

As you play, your own actions, experience and story influence a unique connected gaming experience and evolving narrative. Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity's frontier is reshaped, all by the actions of you and your fellow players.

As to removing Solo - given that a PG with one member is the equivalent of Solo, why remove Solo at all? To do so and retain Private Groups would only seem, to me, to be designed to cause unnecessary disquiet.
 
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That's the most specific mention of Solo that I've found, however, by the lack of mention of mode in this quote, all players in any of the modes are included: www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay



As to removing Solo - given that a PG with one member is the equivalent of Solo, why remove Solo at all? To do so and retain Private Groups would only seem, to me, to be designed to cause unnecessary disquiet.

Better remove open then. Polls indicate more people play solo than open. Better annoy the smaller demographic :D
 
Better remove open then. Polls indicate more people play solo than open. Better annoy the smaller demographic :D

I've been saying this for years.
We don't need Open Mode and all it does is cause a dozen people to constantly moan on the forums - so remove it and be done.
They can make a PG and set it to public access, same thing as Open.
 
Ha! Great example!

It's almost as if they're embarrassed by solo mode, so they buried its only mention under an advert for wings!

Classic!

Besides, if they yanked solo mode but left in private groups, nothing fundamental would change, just the label.

But how many people do you think would flip out and scream about it before they bothered to figure it out for themselves? [haha]


How does that even remotely indicate they are "embarrassed" by solo mode? It is strongly applied from the main screen.

"PLAY YOUR WAY

400 BILLION STAR SYSTEMS. INFINITE FREEDOM. BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL."

Plus you are making huge assumptions without even LOOKING a how things are said... I noticed this...

"FLY ALONE, OR WITH FRIENDS

Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous' vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy."

Fly alone... sounds VERY solo to me. Interestingly enough there is a button that says "learn more" and when you click that button guess what you see.

GAMEPLAY
WINGS

FLY ALONE, OR WITH FRIENDS AS PART OF A WING


Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous' vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.
Whether you experience the open multi-player galaxy on your own or in a Wing where you can stay connected to a group of your buddies as you share in jointly-earned spoils, the connected galaxy delivers a constant source of new opportunities and people to play with and against.
In Solo play you can choose never meet another human player, yet the results of your actions still contribute to economy, politics and conflicts of the connected galaxy, and you experience the echoes of their activity."



Mention of Solo isn't "hidden", it is implied and mention all through the description of gameplay. To claim it is "hidden" is is your bias screaming through as you reach for any straw man argument you can. Plus if they "yank" solo mode as you gleefully want it would cause a lot of people to flip out and scream at FDev, but not for the veiled insult you attempted about their apparent stupidity. Instead they would would be as upset at Fdev as much as any would be upset if Fdev "yanked" Open.
 
Better remove open then. Polls indicate more people play solo than open. Better annoy the smaller demographic :D


In the mode closure/lockout question, this is actually the obvious answer. Since the larger complaints about Open are its failure to attract players...there really is no need for it.

You would just have a Mobius type private group form for PVP...and CQC. :cool:
 
Hey there Mouse. You say it's not hidden, but fail to provide any other examples of solo mode being mentioned explicitly under the gameplay section. There are no other explicit mentions of solo mode.

BTW, you still alive over there?

For someone who claims PvP gets him worked up so much it threatens his very health, you sure do get worked up over forum posts remotely related to anything questioning your preferred play style.

Maybe if you stopped coddling yourself and did a little exposure therapy, you'd feel better about it.

Anyway, if they did yank solo or open tomorrow, there would be little either of us could do about it other than complain.

It isn't hidden.. and I find it interesting that you want other "examples" of solo mode being mentioned explicitly under the game play section. In fact besides otherwise being alluded multiple times to it isn't mentioned again specifically. But do you know what isn't mentioned specifically at all?

Open. Interestingly that...

I couldn't find any mention of Open at all. CQC is specifically mentioned, Solo is specifically mentioned but Open... not a wit. Yes it says "multi-player", and wings and hunting other commanders, but were they referring to Open or to Private groups? Not even in Power Play... no mention what so bloody ever. So you laugh at Solo for being mentioned, want it "yanked" yet the mode you seem to want everyone in... doesn't even rate a comment.

As for my health, if I was dead who is replying to you?

PVP doesn't get me "worked up"... since you want to be glib and "joke" about something serious, you want it laid out plainly? I have physically buried to many friends, to many others who served in the military. One of my jobs was transportation, of people and cargo. I put young men and women on a plane, assigned them seats, laughed with them, I also was Honor Guard. Do you know what it feels like to help carry the flag draped coffin off a plane. The coffin of someone that you had personally put on a plane and sent off to a conflict zone? To fold the flag of the country they served over their coffin before handing it to their loved ones... some loved ones that you knew very well. I wake up nightly covered in sweat, even when it is very cold in the room. The times I've tried to PVP I could do it maybe a day or two before the nightmares came back strong. Nightmares of those I buried, nightmares even of burying those I played games with. Nightmares of them screaming and drowning if I had played Word of Warships. Of them frantically trying to get out of burning planes if I had played War Thunder. Used to love Alien vs Predator.... those are NOT fun visions during sleep either. My father and I used to play against each other in Medal of Honor Allied Assault when it first came out. Know the horror of waking up after burying your own father that you yourself had shot? I no longer have weapons in the house because of the state I am in if I have a really severe nightmare and actions I was stopped from carrying out before I lived alone. I have my own Nightmare on Elm street and take medications to try and stop any nightmares, it doesn't stop them but it does reduce them.

So hey.. joke about coddling myself and "exposure" therapy.. my answer to you on that is to go "coddle" yourself...

And by the way I am not even remotely worked up. You haven't seen me agitated. Also as stated before I am mainly in a PG, yet I will defend the right for others to play in their modes of play from others who have decided THEIR gameplay is the preferred on and all should play it.
 
Because PvP is part of this game and it has no content atm. It has to be put in use, otherwise its only used for salt.

It is it's own content. It is a thing unto itself. If it is something you love to do, then do it. If it is not something you do not like to do, then do not do it. If it ceases being fun for you... then stop doing it. Stop asking for something extra. It does not need content. It is content.
 
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