They said the Thargoid plot would be dynamic based on player reaction.

[Kaocraft]

Yet every single official trailer, mention etc makes reference to a Thargoid war, the 'official' announcment of the Return was on the back of a post-battle scenario between Thargoids and Feds, and the cinematic trailer in today's stream (as cool as it was) clearly shows an aggressive posture being adopted by both humans and thargoids.

Can Frontier please explain why the change?

Or was player reaction already factored in to 2.4, perhaps by how many people tried to shoot the ships during hyperdictions?

I can't help but feel as if the way 2.4 is unveloping is a big kick in the teeth to the likes of Canonn and all those who would rather research and develop with the Thargoids rather than shooting them. Elite has never lacked for pew pew content and this update seems to be more of the same and we still have no indication that 2.4 will not just boil down to 'alien conflict zones' and 'thargoid powerplay'.

I dunno but like everything else it probably comes down to "they never said exactly that," or we are all stupid and massively misinterpreted everything they've ever said and furthermore we're going to complain No Matter What they do, etc etc.

It's also way easier to make some new ship models, damage types, and status effects, but otherwise keep all existing play mechanics exactly the same, and call it a day.

I'm interested to see how it comes out, but I think the idea of a player-driven story, in any broad strokes sense, is probably not going to happen. Yeah maybe like PowerPlay we'll ultimately determine the equivalent to which PowerPlay character becomes the Emperor, or something. Or whether Salome lives or dies. That's probably the extent of it I would imagine.

So get ready to shoot missiles at flying saucers.

If those swarming ships really do launch in those kinds of numbers, though, and if they (hopefully) take extremely low amounts of damage to kill, then I can finally see a pretty active and exciting role for multipew turret gunners at least. So that's . . . something.

 

[CMDR-AD]

Yet every single official trailer, mention etc makes reference to a Thargoid war, the 'official' announcment of the Return was on the back of a post-battle scenario between Thargoids and Feds, and the cinematic trailer in today's stream (as cool as it was) clearly shows an aggressive posture being adopted by both humans and thargoids.

Can Frontier please explain why the change?

Or was player reaction already factored in to 2.4, perhaps by how many people tried to shoot the ships during hyperdictions?

I can't help but feel as if the way 2.4 is unveloping is a big kick in the teeth to the likes of Canonn and all those who would rather research and develop with the Thargoids rather than shooting them. Elite has never lacked for pew pew content and this update seems to be more of the same and we still have no indication that 2.4 will not just boil down to 'alien conflict zones' and 'thargoid powerplay'.

My hunch is that the non-combat type of interactions will be something which can exist during a time-window within each individual encounter. Perhaps at first, early on during the "Return", this window may even be open for the full duration of an encounter. Players who want combat can go hostile, the window for non-combat interaction closes for that specific encounter.

I feel there is ample room for some interesting research gameplay in such a design. Scanning the Thargoid ships, wakes, and of course the well known coded messages in audio and even visual responses to non-combat exchanges. Any of which can be made lead to locations or content otherwise hidden and unrevealed.

And such a system, based on per-encounter CMDR choices, would prevent the inevitable CDMR rushing out to score the "1ST" Thargoid kill, hoping to completely ruin any non-combat narrative from ever emerging, and making it a forum spectacle and salt trophy. Such a design couldn't be spoiled by either side, for either side.

All just hopes at this point, I realize. But still, I hold them.

 

[popuptoaster]

And a flight sim without guns is... it's just lol

For you maybe but I suspect that "solitaire" is probably one of the most played PC games ever and there is no combat in that.

you seem unable to grasp that your opinion on games needing combat to be exciting is wrong, they may need combat to excite YOU, but that's not the case for everyone.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

For you maybe but I suspect that "solitaire" is probably one of the most played PC games ever and there is no combat in that.

you seem unable to grasp that your opinion on games needing combat to be exciting is wrong, they may need combat to excite YOU, but that's not the case for everyone.

Elite without combat? Sry buts thats one its main 3 pillars and without it would be very dull to be honest. Solitaire could possibly be the most played game but it wasnt designed to be a shooter (ergo no need for weaponry) and card games typically dont involve weapons unless your playing with alot of 19th century americans. Its really a case of apples and oranges comparing them

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Here's why... I'm going to tell you why, OP.

Because a game wherein we and the thargoids run off into the sunset together would be exceptionally boring and anti-climactic.

The other criticism, that when you're given nothing but hammers, everything looks like a nail... if the intent of the Thargoids content wasn't all-out war, then we wouldn't have been given hammers in the first place.

Young Greek boys didn't fawn over stories of Naxos, the happy pita baker that was good to his wife and invented the dolmathakia. No, they reveled in tales of Odysseus, Perseus, and Achilles.

Engaging games need conflict. That's what keeps them fun.

I don't really see conflict when I design my missions and craft in KSP. Though you could argue that Thrust-Weight and Mass and transfer windows are kinda conflicts, too.

 

[Ben Sevil]

When all you're given in game by FDEV is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

For you maybe but I suspect that "solitaire" is probably one of the most played PC games ever and there is no combat in that.

you seem unable to grasp that your opinion on games needing combat to be exciting is wrong, they may need combat to excite YOU, but that's not the case for everyone.

No, not everyone, but a safe estimation is about 85-90% of everyone.

One need only make a cursory scan of the marketplace to see my point.

And to back up Minge's point above, there is a reason that every single ship in this game includes at least one offensive hardpoint - because combat/conflict is one of the main pillars of Elite.

Canonn has had plenty of time to study these things. Now it's our turn to shoot at them.

 

[Winterwalker]

Though you could argue that Thrust-Weight and Mass and transfer windows are kinda conflicts, too.

It's what makes a puzzle, makes a game, I think you're right. It's still true though that armed conflict is very much part of Elite's DNA. Fact is though, we have guns aboard, carry no special equipment that happens to be the right format in case we happen to meet a xeno, and if first reaction on first sighting an alien <you can't seem to hail> is to shoot at it, that doesn't even have to be in the interests of starting an inter-species war .. what materials can you get from a destroyed Thargoid? There could be a profit in it.

More thoughtful people might want to try to communicate with the aliens but again, how can that be prepared for, before you even met the alien - which could be 'anything' and speak any language. First you need to study, try to understand and then develop the means to communicate? It's unrealistic to expect to be able to study, universally before contact even, I think. First off, what is it's chemistry? Only knowing that can you build scanners that look in the right spectrum.

 

[Kayweg]

"They said the Thargoid plot would be dynamic based on player reaction."

Personally i never believed that and still don't, but i can see that it would sound enticing to the player base.

Truth is, for now i can't know either way.

Only once it's in the game can we possibly make observations if some players are affected differently than others.

But even then it seems almost impossible to rate any "evidence" other than anecdotal.

 

[Tataboj]

Do you have any evidence that we are now in a war with them?

 

[Winterwalker]

"They said the Thargoid plot would be dynamic based on player reaction."

If the player reaction (in threads like this, and the official one) is "some of us want to study them" then that too might drive Thargoid plot?

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

well then because i have left for Sag A* so have the thargoids? does this mean if i had cabins i could have thargoids book tourist missions?

 

[XanderVekk]

Read a book!

According to Premonitions, there are a large group of decidedly unfriendly Thargoids, and a few that might not be.

Relations with the former are a given, the latter is probably up to us.

 

[Apos]

It is dynamic according to player actions.

It just so happens that the only actions FD offered towards them is damaging their infrastructure and collecting their resources by force.

Can't get any more dynamic than that.

 

[Kayweg]

If the player reaction (in threads like this, and the official one) is "some of us want to study them" then that too might drive Thargoid plot?

Just to point out, it wasn't my line, i merely quoted the thread header there and then commented on that.

As for "player reaction", i meant "dynamic based on player direction within the actual game", not outside of it.

For example, will players who haven't acted aggressively towards barnacles (etc) see different thargoid behavior towards them than those who did ?

That's what was hinted at and what the OP referred to as far as i can see., in game.

I care little about the story meta on the forum or elsewhere, if it isn't represented in the game it's "just" people making stuff up.

And i don't mean to be blunt about that, i'm sure it's cool for those it works for.

But it doesn't qualify as a "thargoid plot dynamically based on player reaction" in my book.

 

[lysan]

Unless they now support dynamic campaigns I don't think so, it will be directed from the hands of FDEV just as it always has been done, and I'm not complaining about that.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I am convinced that there will be defectors among the Thargoids. Like for the planet of the monkeys

 

[Deleted member 110222]

We really shouldn't worry. Making the game all but unplayable for all but the top 5% combat pilots in the top 5% combat ships, would only lead to one thing. A large number of players leaving for being unable to progress, and quite possibly, irreparable damage to the game's reputation, which is already bad enough in attracting new players.

I imagine the Thargoids will be hard to kill. I imagine co-operation will be essential in killing them. That's fine. That's actually what I said a while ago, on what I think should be added to the game: Raid-style gameplay.

But the game has to accommodate all players. So no, the galaxy won't become, I suspect, an unplayable mess where all but the aforementioned top 5% will die every five minutes.

The people who are saying the game will be an unplayable mess are either deluded, and think that Frontier is about to abandon a large (note the lack of claiming majority) portion of the player base, which is responsible for a hefty sales Base in the format of skins. Frontier does not want to lose those sales.

Or, those claiming armegeddon (spelling?) are outright trolling passive players for a cheap forum laugh.

I suspect Frontier values coin over laughs. They are, after all, a business.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

It'd be cool if the game logged whether or not you've ever fired on one before.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

It'd be cool if the game logged whether or not you've ever fired on one before.

That would be cool. And actually how I hope it's handled. On my current save, I've only carried one ton of MA. And that was purchased, not gained through barnacle shooting.