This is a review I recently wrote and its a shame, it had so much potential and still does.

[Ian Doncaster]

{on exploration wear-and-tear}

What kind of thing falls apart under four days? I mean IRL tech can clock thousands of hours before really failing.

Depends on the technology, of course. Basic consumer tech, sure, that might last thousands of hours. Ultra-high performance stuff might last a few hours if that.
(e.g. normal car tires on a normal car driven normally will last for months to years ; F1 car tires are getting noticeably damaged after an hour)

Having hyperspace jumps cause wear and tear which if you're operating in the bubble gets sorted out cheaply as part of pressing the "repair" button at a station every so often, but if you're 100 jumps into deep space without a service starts causing serious problems ... that wouldn't be an unrealistic mechanism.

It obviously couldn't be added to Elite Dangerous now after 1.0 released without it, and ED1.0 didn't have enough other things to make it work at all well with it, but a different game (probably a more heavily exploration-focused one) could make it a key part of the exploration process to establish forward supply depots to stockpile spare parts for repairs, etc. that might eventually become the start of a new inhabited system.

 

[SkipRat]

{on exploration wear-and-tear}

Depends on the technology, of course. Basic consumer tech, sure, that might last thousands of hours. Ultra-high performance stuff might last a few hours if that.
(e.g. normal car tires on a normal car driven normally will last for months to years ; F1 car tires are getting noticeably damaged after an hour)

Having hyperspace jumps cause wear and tear which if you're operating in the bubble gets sorted out cheaply as part of pressing the "repair" button at a station every so often, but if you're 100 jumps into deep space without a service starts causing serious problems ... that wouldn't be an unrealistic mechanism.

It obviously couldn't be added to Elite Dangerous now after 1.0 released without it, and ED1.0 didn't have enough other things to make it work at all well with it, but a different game (probably a more heavily exploration-focused one) could make it a key part of the exploration process to establish forward supply depots to stockpile spare parts for repairs, etc. that might eventually become the start of a new inhabited system.

Exactly this. And some thing I wish they would to engineered parts, especially over powering weapons.

Although, I think there is a way of implementing now as part of the Thargoid story.

As part of the invasion plan, the release some kind of subspace/witch space device that floods the target galaxy with x, that interferes with enemy jump technology. In order to gain the tactical advantage for their invasion.

As if I was the Thargoids, that is what I would be thinking of doing. Restricting and enemies capability to move is a text book 101 tactical move.

Look at how the Ukraine are restricting Russian movement and supplies now.

And make the whole build up to the war more interesting. As now you need to maintain war munitions deeper into space to fight the Thargoids, giving people who don't want to fight or not interested in it aspect, something that can do to join in.

 

[Brrokk]

There is wear-and-tear for explorers. That's why AFMUs exist. Repair limpets are also useful.

 

[SkipRat]

There is wear-and-tear for explorers. That's why AFMUs exist. Repair limpets are also useful.

That is not integrity based.

Yes you can patch holes and put a bit of plaster here and there.

But there will always be long term structural damage, that can't be repaired by you. It will need to repaired at big repair shop.

That it was ship integrity is the game in the first place. And why it's a dud mechanic now.

 

[Brrokk]

That is not integrity based.

Yes you can patch holes and put a bit of plaster here and there.

But there will always be long term structural damage, that can't be repaired by you. It will need to repaired at big repair shop.

That it was ship integrity is the game in the first place. And why it's a dud mechanic now.

That happens too. Ship integrity can only be repaired at a station.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

{on exploration wear-and-tear}

Depends on the technology, of course. Basic consumer tech, sure, that might last thousands of hours. Ultra-high performance stuff might last a few hours if that.
(e.g. normal car tires on a normal car driven normally will last for months to years ; F1 car tires are getting noticeably damaged after an hour)

Having hyperspace jumps cause wear and tear which if you're operating in the bubble gets sorted out cheaply as part of pressing the "repair" button at a station every so often, but if you're 100 jumps into deep space without a service starts causing serious problems ... that wouldn't be an unrealistic mechanism.

It obviously couldn't be added to Elite Dangerous now after 1.0 released without it, and ED1.0 didn't have enough other things to make it work at all well with it, but a different game (probably a more heavily exploration-focused one) could make it a key part of the exploration process to establish forward supply depots to stockpile spare parts for repairs, etc. that might eventually become the start of a new inhabited system.

Hyperjump capable ships in Elite's timeline are pretty old technology at current point. Basic designs are hundreds of years old. They should be RELIABLE at that point. Something like development of cars in IRL. In start 1900's even short car trip was an adventure, and something breaking up was normal. Like something breaking in 100 km trip.
Nowadays, that kind thing is pretty uncommon, and many even horribly abused cars just run, roughly but still run. Like those classic Toyota Hilux trucks.

Ships in Elite should be compared to kind of typical vehicles rather than purpose built racing machines. (Though who knows how long F1 car and its parts would last if one does not drive it at racing pace )

 

[SkipRat]

That happens too. Ship integrity can only be repaired at a station.

But ship integrity means nothing.

It's get to zero and nothing. It's a dud mechanic.

Although, it still good down, but it doesn't mean anything.

 

[SkipRat]

Hyperjump capable ships in Elite's timeline are pretty old technology at current point. Basic designs are hundreds of years old. They should be RELIABLE at that point. Something like development of cars in IRL. In start 1900's even short car trip was an adventure, and something breaking up was normal. Like something breaking in 100 km trip.
Nowadays, that kind thing is pretty uncommon, and many even horribly abused cars just run, roughly but still run. Like those classic Toyota Hilux trucks.

Ships in Elite should be compared to kind of typical vehicles rather than purpose built racing machines. (Though who knows how long F1 car and its parts would last if one does not drive it at racing pace )

I don't I know a guy at work who ruins new work vans in less than a year.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I don't I know a guy at work who ruins new work vans in less than a year.

That in Elite terms is kind of pilot, who flies hamfisted and bangs his ship to regularly, boils it when fuel scooping and such.
Off topic: some of those work vans are abused quite much. I for example did not know than one can drive Toyota Hiace over "concrete pig", those nice concrete driving obstacles. But one workmate of mine, when I worked for city, did that. Of course with city owned van

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Hyperjump capable ships in Elite's timeline are pretty old technology at current point. Basic designs are hundreds of years old. They should be RELIABLE at that point.

There's "reliable" and "reliable provided it has regular servicing and maintenance", though.

The Dynasty expeditions went about 10kLY and that took immense preparation, some intermediate bases of reasonable size, several of them didn't make it even before the deliberate sabotage to ensure none of them made it back, and so on. Meanwhile our current FSDs are based on extremely novel technology that's barely 25 years old.

There's plenty of room to handwavium that the very act of taking a ship through hyperspace places immense stress on the hull and delicate components, and getting as far as not having something breaking after each jump was an impressive feat of centuries of engineering and research in itself. ED hasn't. I'm not suggesting ED should now. But I don't think argument-from-realism means another ED-like game couldn't.

Though who knows how long F1 car and its parts would last if one does not drive it at racing pace

Probably still nowhere near as long as a normal car, since they've made substantial efforts to trade off endurance for weight.

Not that any explorers would ever make their ships more fragile in exchange for them being lightweight high-performance machines, obviously.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

There's "reliable" and "reliable provided it has regular servicing and maintenance", though.

For regular service and maintenance however recommended time interval is kind of meaningfull thing. Lets say we have two hypothetical engines. Other needs full teardown and rebuild between ten hours of running. Other needs oil change and some tightening of nuts between 1000 hours of running. Which one is more reliable? Which one is more likely to fail catastrophically between maintenance periods?

 

[Greasetrap42]

What kind of thing falls apart under four days? I mean IRL tech can clock thousands of hours before really failing.

Modern day aircraft require regular maintenance. Regular helicopters, passenger planes. Fighter craft even more so. I don't mean from bullet holes and explosions... just the high stresses placed on them. Space shuttles required repair following each re-entry. Lots of things in the world around us require frequent maintenance and repair after less than 48 hours of constant use.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Modern day aircraft require regular maintenance. Regular helicopters, passenger planes. Fighter craft even more so. I don't mean from bullet holes and explosions... just the high stresses placed on them. Space shuttles required repair following each re-entry. Lots of things in the world around us require frequent maintenance and repair after less than 48 hours of constant use.

Well modern aircrafts require regular rigorous maintenance to maintain pretty strict safety standards. But there are airlines (blacklisted in developed parts of world) that do not maintain such standards. And fly sometimes very old planes. Most of them do not crash. Probablity of technical failure leading to crash is of course higher.

Space shuttle was very experimental craft. Kind of thing that could be operated only by state with very deep pockets. Not comparable to privately owned and operated vehicle.

 

[Darrack]

Space shuttle was very experimental craft. Kind of thing that could be operated only by state with very deep pockets

Or a very rich man
Everything gets worse over time, its just simple entropy

O7

 

[Greasetrap42]

Well modern aircrafts require regular rigorous maintenance to maintain pretty strict safety standards. But there are airlines (blacklisted in developed parts of world) that do not maintain such standards. And fly sometimes very old planes. Most of them do not crash. Probablity of technical failure leading to crash is of course higher.

Aircraft that do not meet meet safety standards still require regular maintenance to function. Perhaps they don't get what they fully need, but to keep them flying a certain amount is necessary.

Similar to my Krait MK II.

Edit: if not placed in combat or pushed to its limits, or smacking into things, an ED spaceship can last an extremely long time without maintenance or repair. My exploration Asp went for months without using an AFMU.

 

[SkipRat]

Modern day aircraft require regular maintenance. Regular helicopters, passenger planes. Fighter craft even more so. I don't mean from bullet holes and explosions... just the high stresses placed on them. Space shuttles required repair following each re-entry. Lots of things in the world around us require frequent maintenance and repair after less than 48 hours of constant use.

This is why I think it is important to add this into Elite Dangerous: Dark Times (Yup I am taking over the Development of Elite Now) , After the Thargoids release their deadly weapon into witchspace, hampering human jump technology and leaving the fight against the Thargoids in the balance. As the weapon spreads throughout the galaxy desperate communications from commanders as they scramble to get to safe haven to Evaluate their situation. Colonia, sends a desperate message to the core, due to it's now virtual within the galaxy. The chaos also brings the main factions to ahead and in some higher circles blame is aimed at the Pilot's Federation, for the actions in antagonising the Thargoid in the first place.

New added game mechanics, outpost building. Use resources gathered to build storage facilities and repair centre's and defence systems, landing pads for small to large craft.
Ships Integrity system overhaul.
Mining upgrade, now you can set up mining installations planet side (I don't No why, they haven't figured this out yet, something to do with instancing I heard)
New Ships
New Faction mechaninc's
The Thargoids are on the March.

This might be controversial, but I think ED would benefit between dedicated servers, split between PVP and PVE, as this would allow for more assets to be included in game as peer to peer is very restrictive in this respect. And yes, I would go for a monthly subscription. Or an alternative, is allow play to use their own servers online, which then access FDev BSG as an alternative to doing it P2P and would allow for the Elite Universe to become more dynamic and responsive to the players actions.

Seeing as Fdev spent so much time and attention get the galaxy write, getting the actual name of stars in place and their actual location. I think it is woefully unfair not to take the amount of care on attention the rest of the game. Like the wear and tear you listed above.

 

[Old Duck]

Which are?

Horizons is Horizons, and since I much prefer the way Horizons 3.8 looks* and performs, why would I downgrade (my personal, subjective opinion) to version 4.0? Odyssey at least offers a whole new range of gameplay to try out, if the price were right.

Now if someday H4 offers a new ship or gameplay loop that I just must have, then maybe I'll download it.

* it should be noted that I spent a serious amount of time modding how H3.8 looks and feels, work that won't carry over to 4.0.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Aircraft that do not meet meet safety standards still require regular maintenance to function. Perhaps they don't get what they fully need, but to keep them flying a certain amount is necessary.

Similar to my Krait MK II.

Edit: if not placed in combat or pushed to its limits, an ED spaceship can last an extremely long time without maintenance or repair. My exploration ASP went for months without using an AFMU.

Yeah they do need maintenance. But well there is maintenance, and maintenance. You know in aviation standards are strict. Like changing parts when certain amounts of hours have gone, regardless if part is still in usable or even pristine condition. Need for original certified parts and so on. If people maintained their cars like airlines maintain their planes, those cars would last basically forever.

Those other airlines though might skimp quite much of changing parts, might use some parts with suspicious origin, might take way much longer time between maintenance stops and so on. Still their planes mostly work. They just take other level of risks than reputable airlines.

But even when it comes to aviation we see certain trend. More mature technology is, less maintenance intensive it gets. It just lasts longer and longer. As various kinks have been eliminated by years of technological evolution. On other hand anything very new is kind of maintenance nightmare.

 

[Greasetrap42]

But even when it comes to aviation we see certain trend. More mature technology is, less maintenance intensive it gets. It just lasts longer and longer. As various kinks have been eliminated by years of technological evolution. On other hand anything very new is kind of maintenance nightmare.

Agreed. If you flew an aircraft carefully it might last a long time without maintenance or repair. Similar to my AspX which can go for months. But if you attach guns to it and start flying it like a madman in combat situations and smaking it into rocks when you land you will need constant repairs.

 

[SkipRat]

Yeah they do need maintenance. But well there is maintenance, and maintenance. You know in aviation standards are strict. Like changing parts when certain amounts of hours have gone, regardless if part is still in usable or even pristine condition. Need for original certified parts and so on. If people maintained their cars like airlines maintain their planes, those cars would last basically forever.

Those other airlines though might skimp quite much of changing parts, might use some parts with suspicious origin, might take way much longer time between maintenance stops and so on. Still their planes mostly work. They just take other level of risks than reputable airlines.

But even when it comes to aviation we see certain trend. More mature technology is, less maintenance intensive it gets. It just lasts longer and longer. As various kinks have been eliminated by years of technological evolution. On other hand anything very new is kind of maintenance nightmare.

There is a simple and easy way around it though, base the following on integrity ship range.

Explorer class - have a 10,000 Ly round trip range.
Combat Class - have a 750ly round trip range
Traders - have a 2500Ly round trip range
General Class (Anaconda et al) - 5000Ly Round trip range

This means that you may to think very carefully about what and how you engineering items. As for an explorer, extending the jump range, may actually reduce your overal range. When you might want increase integrity instead, so you can stay out further and go deeper.

Also means, the skill of the pilot comes into effect.

What about scoping gas giants for fuel? Less stress on the ship if you have the option too? There are system with no gas no giants, so why not take advantage of them when you can. Then we get to fly through the gas clouds of giants.

Just one change, to one thing, opens up so many unique and interesting ways to get around the problems. Scoping for fuel in gas giants, during an electral storm? Hell yeah, why would anyone say no? Whilst making it meaningful too