This is why I worry about the future of ED - it's FDev themselves

This. With how many games there are on the market, I don't understand why anyone would waste their time playing a game that they don't enjoy. That's why I always suspect that people arguing for feature changes (or for features not to change, or especially hearkening DOOM of Elite) are either Star Citizen fanboi trolls or account sellers, and read arguments through that lens (and a few others that I won't exhaustively list) as well as at face value.

Alternatively, we fight our petty battles on the the forum and it's just background noise. It seems to me that Frontier have no faith in the forums for answers, that's why a hand picked group are invited in for discussions and revelations. The rest of us are told to just bide our time.
 
It’s possible to like something whilst, at the same time, really not liking certain - even many - aspects of it.

Some people seem to think that there’s only black or white.
 
I don't think there is no need for conspiracy theories. It is quite simple - people don't like being "wrong" about something. So if they don't like game, they don't take it as subjective evaluation, but almost like being "wrong side of history". If they don't like game, then game must be doomed, it must be disliked by everybody else.
This comes mostly from obviously new kids in town...it is twenties maximum approach to things. They still have lot to learn. Like, not wasting time on hating things they don't like.

Nah. Conspiracies are a normal and widespread part of human existence throughout all of human history. Denying their possibility offhand is just pure stupidity.
 
Alternatively, we fight our petty battles on the the forum and it's just background noise. It seems to me that Frontier have no faith in the forums for answers, that's why a hand picked group are invited in for discussions and revelations. The rest of us are told to just bide our time.

Wait you think this is a battle? Words aren't fighting. They are the opposite.
 
The system view as is reminds me of the original, but with added functionality. An orrery can be useful for checking out where things would be over time, but given we can't accelerate time would serve no useful function beyond going "OOOH" once then sticking to the 2D one as it's more user friendly.
Remembering what someone repeatedly says in the forum isn't naughty.
You might stick to the 2D one after checking it out (like I was with Holo-Me), but I would be the opposite and favour the 3D visual map as I perceive far more information from that at a single glance - plus, since maps are on a separate screen, time acceleration would totally be possible. That's not to diss the importance of the 2D map which gives a [redacted]load of extra information on planet / star info not accessible from an orrery.

please forgive me if I am wrong, but it looked to me like a mob mentality was starting to form in mocking him for stating his opinion, and I am not sure if that is allowed or correct?
If you're a holy defender it's ok but negative (against the game) nancies can't do it.

...
You could have a system view with the abilty to adjust time arbitrarily ... allowing you to see the positions of all orbiting bodies at any given time in the future or past/present. This could be pretty awesome in terms of puzzles. Imagine, being able to hide puzzles in positions of systems as they existed at a given point in the past instead of the incredibly stupid "lets hide a picture in audio that you can't analyze within the game at all" method that has been done ....or the "lets hide a hint in a local news story in some backwater station that is only readable for a short time in that particular station". Imagine then if it also rolled back archived galnet news as well, so that a particular date could be a clue (if it's in the past). This eliminates the need for you to solve the particular mystery in realtime.
...
This! Yes please.
 
You might stick to the 2D one after checking it out (like I was with Holo-Me), but I would be the opposite and favour the 3D visual map as I perceive far more information from that at a single glance - plus, since maps are on a separate screen, time acceleration would totally be possible. That's not to diss the importance of the 2D map which gives a [redacted]load of extra information on planet / star info not accessible from an orrery.

Keep reading that conversation, you'll like it even more.
 
Alternatively, we fight our petty battles on the the forum and it's just background noise. It seems to me that Frontier have no faith in the forums for answers, that's why a hand picked group are invited in for discussions and revelations. The rest of us are told to just bide our time.

That's going a bit too far, it is why the focused feedback threads have a suggestions only policy though IMO.

Over time people buy, leave or restart playing video games all perfectly usual. Every now and again there's an edge case who can't seem to move onto other games and hangs around resentfully. The longer the games going the more of them you collect and the more toxic things get.
 

sollisb

Banned
NMS sales were fantastic indeed.

Peak online players, yes.

Regular online players, no.

No Man's Sky had two monstrous peaks of concurrent players - a fantastic demonstration of extensive AAA marketing by a console manufacturer - between huge swathes of very-low player counts, as SteamCharts clearly shows:
  • No Man's Sky (image): average concurrent of 4,354 players between Aug 2016 & Sep 2018. High of 212k, low of 1.0k.
  • Elite Dangerous (image): average concurrent of 4,355 players between Apr 2015 & Sep 2018. High of 18k, low of 5.3k.
Since NMS' huge second spike to 97k concurrent players on 29th July at the height of its NEXT update hype, the peak has dropped by 95% to 4.8k yesterday. It took little over two months for this playerbase collapse to happen. An assumption could be that players have quickly become bored with its core features of space legs, customisable carriers, base construction, etc.

Elite Dangerous hasn't had the benefit of similar marketing, yet has maintained a consistent playerbase throughout. It's newest update arrives this quarter, with livestreams and betas starting soon; I suspect you've heard about it.

Not to lower your enthusiasm, but.... NMS can be played entirely off-line. Elite not so much :)

As an example, I played all day Saturday at one of the current 'credit rushes', about 30% of it in 'open' as saw no-one. (Even I was surprised as 1. I wasn't ganked! and 2. I didn't realise I was in Open) :)
 
It’s possible to like something whilst, at the same time, really not liking certain - even many - aspects of it.

Some people seem to think that there’s only black or white.

I have to say though that you are much better at expressing this viewpoint than, shall we say, your less-eloquent/less-even-keeled contemporaries. And you still actually play afaik, so you have real(fake)world experience to back up your position.

The ones that mystify me are ones that haven't signed on in 2 years to the game and yet still hate on it like it killed their fish. It's genuinely puzzling why anyone would spend so much time on a recreational thing that they despise.
 
Not to lower your enthusiasm, but.... NMS can be played entirely off-line. Elite not so much :)

As an example, I played all day Saturday at one of the current 'credit rushes', about 30% of it in 'open' as saw no-one. (Even I was surprised as 1. I wasn't ganked! and 2. I didn't realise I was in Open) :)

The gankers are all coming after AX pilots these days.
 
I have to say though that you are much better at expressing this viewpoint than, shall we say, your less-eloquent/less-even-keeled contemporaries. And you still actually play afaik, so you have real(fake)world experience to back up your position.

The ones that mystify me are ones that haven't signed on in 2 years to the game and yet still hate on it like it killed their fish. It's genuinely puzzling why anyone would spend so much time on a recreational thing that they despise.

Misery loves company.
 
Say what you will about Chris Roberts, but he knows his game inside out - when he does LIVE "10 for the chairman" question and answers, I've NEVER ONCE in the YEARS he's been doing them had to say "excuse me - I just have to leave the room to get that information for you" which ObAnt said happened REPEATEDLY during the 6 hour presentation
Been away for a few days...came back to a thread of posts. This one made me spit my coffee everywhere :)
When working in small dev teams, each team working on their own project, it's simply not possible for everyone to know every last single answer to any question they are asked.
Rather than make up stuff, like CR does, the best thing to say to a customer is that you don't know but you'll find out for them. This happens week in, week out, in many industries. Personally it happens to me in almost every meeting I do with a customer.
Going and finding the correct answer was the most professional thing to do, hats off to them for doing this rather than saying "Don't know" and just sitting there twiddling their thumbs...it's not like they had a pre-set list of questions that they were handed 24hrs in advance.
 
Going and finding the correct answer was the most professional thing to do, hats off to them for doing this rather than saying "Don't know" and just sitting there twiddling their thumbs...it's not like they had a pre-set list of questions that they were handed 24hrs in advance.

This is exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't be bothered to make the effort for. Well said that commander!
 
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Been away for a few days...came back to a thread of posts. This one made me spit my coffee everywhere :)
When working in small dev teams, each team working on their own project, it's simply not possible for everyone to know every last single answer to any question they are asked.
Rather than make up stuff, like CR does, the best thing to say to a customer is that you don't know but you'll find out for them. This happens week in, week out, in many industries. Personally it happens to me in almost every meeting I do with a customer.
Going and finding the correct answer was the most professional thing to do, hats off to them for doing this rather than saying "Don't know" and just sitting there twiddling their thumbs...it's not like they had a pre-set list of questions that they were handed 24hrs in advance.

Please don't ruin Rafe Zetter's belief in Chris Roberts by highlighting that the 10ftc shows were pre-recorded, with pre-selected and researched questions.

As to Chris himself knowing his game inside and out...

[video=youtube_share;ZWq8ynUq7wM]https://youtu.be/ZWq8ynUq7wM[/video]
 
Please don't ruin Rafe Zetter's belief in Chris Roberts by highlighting that the 10ftc shows were pre-recorded, with pre-selected and researched questions.

As to Chris himself knowing his game inside and out...

Okay I have to eat some humble pie now. IN the past I 'may' have alluded to the fact that I consider SC to be a tech demo. But after watching that video, I just can't say that anymore, as even the most basic demo is supposed to be playable and that was rather embarrassing to watch.
 
You are interpreting. What if you just take him literally and what he said as a genuine question? Is it really so devious to ask a question like "if you don't like the game and also don't believe in its future, why are you still wasting your time here?" His words were slightly different but the meaning, as I got it, pretty much the same.

You didn't go back far enough. That's not the first thing he said in the thread. This is:
Time to move on to a game you enjoy maybe.

Which is the same thing as my interpretation, albeit with a veneer of polite suggestion painted over it.

A game where its players advise other players to go somewhere else for their fun is a dead game.

What are your intentions, hopes and expectations by still lurking on this forum then?

Shouldn't be that hard to figure out if you think on it a moment. I'm hoping that at SOME point my repeated messages, ones that I'm confident are shared by other players besides myself, will carry through to the decision-making table and make a difference - because I've enjoyed playing Elite, I want to enjoy it more, but the game itself is getting in the way thanks to what's been happening at that decision-making table.

Nobody is so daft to say "go away", because nobody can't and everyone knows it.

This is nonsense. Any minute amount of forum browsing can prove this wrong. It occurs all the time, in many gaming communities throughout the web. And each and every time, pushing or pointing people away is the wrong thing to do.

__

Get used to seeing it. You see video games are an entirely optional entertainment thing. The whole point of them is having fun, when that stops or isn't a thing in the first place its time to move on.

I see that as wrong. When something is not fun, it's time to improve it so that it is fun again. That's how change, innovation, and improvement occur, Bob. Nobody would be driving automobiles if everyone was happy to settle for going on foot every time their horse decides it's too tired to keep moving.

Any other approach is either being willfully ignorant as to what a video game is, trolling or an overly emotional fib to create drama. Whichever way time to pop off or stop making silly claims.

And when you say derogatory, disingenuous nonsense like this, it does not improve my personal estimation of you.

None of those things bother me at all. I like the base game DLC's and patches just improve it.

Which is fine, you're allowed to be not-bothered. Just as I'm allowed to point out that appears to me like having your head in the sand. We're both entitled to opinions, Bob. Note that I'm not telling you to take yours and place it elsewhere where it's more fun to voice it.

You pay someone to pilot your ship somewhere for you, the only lore explanation needed for that is that credits exist. There you go problem solved.

I don't know how you're completely missing everything about the 'ship transfer' debacle and why I brought it up to begin with. I don't know how to help you here. At no point did I question or complain about 'lore reasons' for ship transfer to exist; this has literally nothing to do with what I've said.

Polling the players means they knew exactly what they were doing and how it would be received with that particular decision. You might not like it, but you are clearly in the minority and can't do anything about it. So maybe adapt to the game as the majority like it.

Polling the players =/= "they knew exactly what they were doing". Why would they feel the need to ask the players to be sure that it was a bad idea after all, if they knew what they were doing in the first place? And the fact that they removed polling immediately afterwards just reinforces the impression that they became aware of their own shortcomings there and decided, out of fear, to pre-empt the community forming collective opinions in the future from that point onwards, because *lord forbid* there be any biases or flaws in a poll - no way could anybody be trusted to read between the lines when it matters, noo-ooo...can't have it, toss it out!

And again, you seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that I VOTED AGAINST INSTANT SHIP TRANSFERS. I cannot state that any clearer for you Bob, and if you insist on continuing to act as though I've said the opposite, you *will* be earning the latest spot on my ignore list, as I will have run out of all patience and tolerance at that point.

p.s. Dismissing me as a 'minority opinion' with zero evidence to back it up does not serve as a valid argument.
 
I see that as wrong. When something is not fun, it's time to improve it so that it is fun again. That's how change, innovation, and improvement occur, Bob. Nobody would be driving automobiles if everyone was happy to settle for going on foot every time their horse decides it's too tired to keep moving.

Fun is subjective, and a lot of the demanded changes are dreadful ideas that should be dismissed out of hand like the BGS mode objections or open only.

The trick to gaming fun is know your own preferences, buy games that fit them, whilst recognizing when you've burned out on a game and moving on as soon as its not fun either temporarily or permanently. If you've properly burned out you wont miss it so its permanent.

And when you say derogatory, disingenuous nonsense like this, it does not improve my personal estimation of you.

Its not disingenuous or derogatory its exactly what I think and do about games and genuine advice.

"If you don't like it don't do it its optional" is not a controversial opinion.

I don't have a personal estimation of you this is a trivial video game discussion and it has no wider implications beyond that.

Which is fine, you're allowed to be not-bothered. Just as I'm allowed to point out that appears to me like having your head in the sand. We're both entitled to opinions, Bob. Note that I'm not telling you to take yours and place it elsewhere where it's more fun to voice it.

I like the game warts and all, my head isn't in the sand I'm just positive about it and happily overlook minor flaws.

I don't know how you're completely missing everything about the 'ship transfer' debacle and why I brought it up to begin with. I don't know how to help you here. At no point did I question or complain about 'lore reasons' for ship transfer to exist; this has literally nothing to do with what I've said.

It wasn't a debacle, they polled the players and introduced the most popular option. There's nothing wrong with that. Calling it a debacle just makes it sound like you disapprove hence my assumption you don't like transfers.

Polling the players =/= "they knew exactly what they were doing". Why would they feel the need to ask the players to be sure that it was a bad idea after all, if they knew what they were doing in the first place? And the fact that they removed polling immediately afterwards just reinforces the impression that they became aware of their own shortcomings there and decided, out of fear, to pre-empt the community forming collective opinions in the future from that point onwards, because *lord forbid* there be any biases or flaws in a poll - no way could anybody be trusted to read between the lines when it matters, noo-ooo...can't have it, toss it out!

Same reason they allowed the 17 to see B4 I'd imagine.

And again, you seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that I VOTED AGAINST INSTANT SHIP TRANSFERS. I cannot state that any clearer for you Bob, and if you insist on continuing to act as though I've said the opposite, you *will* be earning the latest spot on my ignore list, as I will have run out of all patience and tolerance at that point.

Then why are you bothered ?. I've reread your other post and I'm no clearer what it is you are trying to say. Other than you don't like Pokémon and you call it a debacle.

About ignore lists, people rob themselves of the ability to answer to make a dramatic flourish in a post whilst I'm free to make any counterargument I wish as often as I wish. Then most of the time they forget they've said it and carry on talking to you anyway which is funny. In extreme cases (old duck) they theatrically put you on ignore six or seven times. Each time it gets funnier and carries less weight. Then you've got people who ignore you but carry on trying to talk to you from behind the ignore shield, which sort of misses the point and is again really funny.

p.s. Dismissing me as a 'minority opinion' with zero evidence to back it up does not serve as a valid argument.

You seem miffed about transfers for some unclear reason. Its reasonable to assume that's down to being on the losing side of the vote in the absence of a properly made argument beyond "debacle".
 
The trick to gaming fun is know your own preferences, buy games that fit them, whilst recognizing when you've burned out on a game and moving on as soon as its not fun either temporarily or permanently. If you've properly burned out you wont miss it so its permanent.
This is the bit I don't get.
I don't like Halo...hate it. Such a useless, rubbish, poor story lined game...GFX are ok.
Guess what...I don't play it...nor do I go onto MS's forum asking to make it better to suit myself.
I play 2-3 games my whole adult life...all the others I don't like, don't enjoy, can't be bothered with. I don't have enough hours in the day to whinge at gaming companies to make their games how I'd like them.
 
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