Three things that need to change

[Thylacine]

ED is a GREAT game, but it will never use its full potential if the following things are not addressed:

- Flight model: increase TURNING speed, STRAVE and YAW significantly! Once someone locked you with gimballed weapons or beam lasers, it is near impossible to escape the situation and return fire (at least not in a Sidewinder). Keep the optimal turning speed and such, just make it faster.

- Supercruise: Enhance RESPONSIVENESS of acceleration and breaks at LEAST by 100%. Because it takes forever to slow down from 20+ c, one constantly overshoots the target.

- Insurance: INSURANCE COSTS are too HIGH. Especially in the beginning, one can easily lose it all. They should be cut by 50%.

These points are not up for debate, don't even try In all seriousness, I sincerely believe that if these things were addressed, the game would hugly profit

Regards

 

[popuptoaster]

1. It's designed like it is to stop players using the ships like gun turrets.

2. Slow down earlier, if you can't be bothered to work it out yourself, leave the throttle in the blue portion of the indicator, it will do it automatically.

3. Insurance is always expensive on risky items, if it was cheaper players would not care about losing a ship. Besides, prices for all things are still being balanced, it may even go UP.

 

[grae3107]

I have to disagree on all 3 points I'm afraid.

Flight Control - Great as it is. I think that using roll more than yaw is great and more representative of how flight should be in my opinion. Yaw is just right in it's turn rate. Also the rate of yaw was deliberately slow compared to rolling then pulling back. As for turn speed once you are in the blue sweet spot turning is fast enough, add FA-Off and thrusters and the turn can be even faster.

Supercruise - Still a place holder at the moment but I do not see the problem with having to take time to slow down. 20c is 20x ligthspeed you can only slow down so fast. Decreasing braking speed by 100% would be far too much.

Insurance - During beta it should be lower but once we go to gamma and release it needs to increase. I think for the Lakon in Alpha 4 the insurance with a fully kitted out ship was 66k. A few trade runs and the cost of insurance becomes pointless and so does the impied risk of losing your ship. We can't lose xp and a life so the cost to us has to be financial. Go to low and there is no real cost.

 

[Maxeren]

ED is a GREAT game, but it will never use its full potential if the following things are not addressed:

- Flight model: increase TURNING speed, STRAVE and YAW significantly! Once someone locked you with gimballed weapons or beam lasers, it is near impossible to escape the situation and return fire (at least not in a Sidewinder). Keep the optimal turning speed and such, just make it faster.

- Supercruise: Enhance RESPONSIVENESS of acceleration and breaks at LEAST by 100%. Because it takes forever to slow down from 20+ c, one constantly overshoots the target.

- Insurance: INSURANCE COSTS are too HIGH. Especially in the beginning, one can easily lose it all. They should be cut by 50%.

These points are not up for debate, don't even try In all seriousness, I sincerely believe that if these things were addressed, the game would hugly profit

Regards

If we cant debate them what sense is there in you posting this here being a forum and all?

Seems more like a demanding rant if i may say so..

 

[ste]

I dont agree with any of those 3 points.

I agree with the toaster.

 

[grae3107]

I agree with the toaster.

Toaster? :S

 

[Commander Dave]

ED is a GREAT game, but it will never use its full potential if the following things are not addressed:

- Flight model: increase TURNING speed, STRAVE and YAW significantly! Once someone locked you with gimballed weapons or beam lasers, it is near impossible to escape the situation and return fire (at least not in a Sidewinder). Keep the optimal turning speed and such, just make it faster.

I'm afraid this one isn't going to happen.
The flight model is pretty much done and for me it's about perfect. minor tweaks but there will be no "turrets in space" as you get with other games. The yaw response will always be low.

- Supercruise: Enhance RESPONSIVENESS of acceleration and breaks at LEAST by 100%. Because it takes forever to slow down from 20+ c, one constantly overshoots the target.

You're not going to like this either.
That you overshoot the target is because you are going to fast and not managing your speed. You have to slow down when you start getting closer to a destination, you can't just razz up to the lights at 95mph and stop on a dime.
Keep an eye on the little indicator immediately to the right of your speed. It's in a thin column next to your speed. This is the speed you need to match to get to your destination with maximum efficiency. If your speed is higher than this you're going too fast. When you drop into SC ramp your speed to max. When you get to 90 ls from your destination start paying attention to that speed indicator.

- Insurance: INSURANCE COSTS are too HIGH. Especially in the beginning, one can easily lose it all. They should be cut by 50%.

Hmmm. This might be another one you'll not like.
Insurance is 50% less for Alpha backers, that was one of the offered perks. For anyone else, you're out of luck.
But in any case ship insurance is going to be expensive. How expensive is it to insure a 1998 Fiesta ? And a 2013 E350 ?
You shouldn't really need the insurance unless you're dying all the time. If you're dying all the time then that's the problem that needs addressing, not the insurance cost.

These points are not up for debate, don't even try In all seriousness, I sincerely believe that if these things were addressed, the game would hugly profit.

Well two of them are your problem so off you go, address them first. I've given you some ideas.
The first one was done and dusted, bar a few minor tweaks, months ago.

So you're out of luck on all counts by the looks of it.
I didn't think you'd like it.

 

[ianw]

Toaster? :S

Pay attention 007!

See post 2 above

 

[Thylacine]

Dear Toaster,

damn it, there is the debate

To 1) There must be a sweet spot between "turrets in space" and the current model. Making the ships a bit more responsive doesn't need to result in a deteriorated arcade gameplay. Wing Commander managed to do it fairly way, I'd say.

To 2) I know, practice helps, but travelling should not become a nuisance, it should be enjoyable... more responsive controls would decrease travel times while maintaining the feel to cover huge distances, and not overshooting due to lazyness to hit the breaks many lightseconds in advance would add to the fun, without taking much away from a gameplay perspective

To 3) It is true that there must be a penelty for dying, but especially in the beginning, the insurance costs can create more frustration than bringing up a healthy sense of "tension to avoid dying" when facing a dangerous situation

 

[Tinman]

Flight model: It's great! Don't touch it!

Supercruise: Far from finished and the devs have even mentioned slight increases in acceleration/deaccelerations as a possibility.

Insurance: Still being balanced. Current prices for pretty much anything (ships/equipment/insurance/bounties...) are not representative of the final game. Things will probably cost way more than they currently do. The game is suppose to last a looooong time and making it possible to burn trough all the content to fast is not good for the longevity of the game. However, there will be ways to get back your ship by loaning money from creditors if you don't have the cash yourself...they will want it back eventually though...some way or another.

 

[ianw]

I would add that it is possible to shake off gimbals in a sidewinder, it just takes practice (which I think is how it should be) and possibly a heat sink or two.

 

[Adam Lusardi]

I would add that it is possible to shake off gimbals in a sidewinder, it just takes practice (which I think is how it should be) and possibly a heat sink or two.

And chaff to come too

 

[Commander Dave]

To 2) I know, practice helps, but travelling should not become a nuisance, it should be enjoyable... more responsive controls would decrease travel times while maintaining the feel to cover huge distances, and not overshooting due to lazyness to hit the breaks many lightseconds in advance would add to the fun, without taking much away from a gameplay perspective

It isn't a nuisance. It's fast and smooth and gets you to where you want to go in a minimum of time and with a minimum of fuss.
You already know what to do: practice more. I gave you the necessary information.

To 3) It is true that there must be a penelty for dying, but especially in the beginning, the insurance costs can create more frustration than bringing up a healthy sense of "tension to avoid dying" when facing a dangerous situation

This game isn't going to be easy. It's not a cakewalk. It's designed to be difficult. But it is also designed to be very, very rewarding. Very rewarding indeed to those who can be bothered to put in the effort.
As I said, the problem you seem to be having is not the insurance, it's the dying all the time. Stop dying all the time and you'll find a different game out there.
We can suggest stuff to help with that.

 

[Commander Dave]

And chaff to come too

Really ?
Wow. I've not read that.

 

[Bewilderbeest]

I disagree, these points are very much up for a debate, so lets see...

Flight model: increase TURNING speed, STRAVE and YAW significantly! Once someone locked you with gimballed weapons or beam lasers, it is near impossible to escape the situation and return fire (at least not in a Sidewinder). Keep the optimal turning speed and such, just make it faster.

So actually what you're really asking for is how to fight other people and survive, especially where you have to take an opening volley of fire from a surprise attack.

A big BIG thing here is to understand energy management, and how putting pips into SYS will help you absorb incoming fire effectively vs putting them into ENG to gain maneuverability, vs into WEP for sustained fire.

Secondly, while the fire is coming in, turn and accelerate towards the enemy to close the gap. The effective range of lasers is <2k so it's unlikely the enemy is further out.

Get behind them, and then its a question of dogfighting on equal grounds. This takes practice! I've currently upgraded to a Cobra, and despite being good in a Sidewinder & Eagle I'm now TERRIBLE. I fought Neon Raven yesterday and he utterly kicked my ass. The new ship is heavier and slower. Combat is something you very much refine over time.

Supercruise: Enhance RESPONSIVENESS of acceleration and breaks at LEAST by 100%. Because it takes forever to slow down from 20+ c, one constantly overshoots the target.

Try this. Accelerate towards your target at full thottle. At 100ls out drop down to 75% throttle and maintain that. You'll end up arriving at a safe disengage speed right on the target. It's much quicker than messing around with overshoots, and works every time for me.

Insurance: INSURANCE COSTS are too HIGH. Especially in the beginning, one can easily lose it all. They should be cut by 50%.

Tell us how you're dying. Are you getting shot in combat zones? Try safer ones. During interdictions? Run away! If you're going to the Federal Distress Beacon to make money then I have no sympathy. That is a high stakes area where you'll get punished unless you're very good at PVP combat.

You really shouldn't be dying that often in proportion to your ability to make money. Let me know if I've missed anything out.

 

[Thylacine]

Dear Dave (and others),

I should probably add that I have no interest in watering down gameplay, or to take challange and simulation out of the game.

Like many of you, I just tried the controls of Star Citizen, and, although they are completely broken for me (dead zone of my joystick is way too much, and when it finally turns it does it so harshley that it is impossible to allign properly with the target), I was quite happy with the speed of it. If you got someone on your tail, you have a chance to dodge, turn around, and return fire. In ED, I often had the situation that between the first hit and my ship exploding, there was not even a SECOND where I wouldn't be hit, no matter how much power to the engines, plus boost, plus manoevering I would do... that shouldn't be, even if you face an Anaconda with a Sidewinder.

As others pointed out, the challange in ED is not as much the combat itself, the challange lies more in chosing your battles, positioning yourself and find ways to equip your ship to a point where NPCs are not as much of a thread anymore and other players are at least equally matched... that is a bit a shame, combat itself should offer more chances, too

EDIT: in all fairness, I know I lack experience with the game, most of you who responded know the game much better than I do. I played the combat scenarios a couple of weeks ago, and only spent some ~10-15 hours in the multiplayer part. There seems to be a strong desire to keep the game hard, which I find good, I just hope that future updates make more of a distinction between "difficult" and, as I perceived it to be sometimes, "unfair"

 

[Hamerstein]

ED is a GREAT game, but it will never use its full potential if the following things are not addressed:

- Flight model: increase TURNING speed, STRAVE and YAW significantly! Once someone locked you with gimballed weapons or beam lasers, it is near impossible to escape the situation and return fire (at least not in a Sidewinder). Keep the optimal turning speed and such, just make it faster.

I kind of agree with you here, not regarding the yaw to pitch ratios, they're by design, but as regards turning speeds for small ships. It does feel laborious sometimes when it shouldn't. What I would observe is we're flying Tescos Basics ships, without all the tweaks and toys we'll have in the final release. I'd suggest this is deliberate by FD, to offer them scope to make things better via upgrades.

- Supercruise: Enhance RESPONSIVENESS of acceleration and breaks at LEAST by 100%. Because it takes forever to slow down from 20+ c, one constantly overshoots the target.

As Toaster points out, this is down to how you fly and understanding how the SC mechanic can be made to work for you. Large masses can provide excellent breaking for high speed approaches but you have to pilot accordingly, the game doesn't spoon feed you.

- Insurance: INSURANCE COSTS are too HIGH. Especially in the beginning, one can easily lose it all. They should be cut by 50%.

Insurance needs to represent a significant barrier to encourage players to consider their actions carefully. ED isn't an arcade game you play for 10 minutes, it's a long term investment. As you progress, it will scale but represent less of a burden, while still making the player consider ramifications. I have no complaints, but I'm careful enough not to die a lot.
Game bugs that kill you are probably distorting the impact of insurance at present, so your concern is understandable.

 

[Zarunoi]

I don't agree with the first 2 points, but insurance wise you have a point.
The insurance you pay for a free ship is kinda strange, only the value of the added equipment should be counted and not the sidewinder hull.

 

[Darojax]

Hmmm, I hadn't even realized insurance is implemented?

 

[drakmaniso]

In ED, I often had the situation that between the first hit and my ship exploding, there was not even a SECOND where I wouldn't be hit, no matter how much power to the engines, plus boost, plus manoevering I would do... that shouldn't be, even if you face an Anaconda with a Sidewinder.

You have several options when someone is on your tail. The simplest is probably to just reverse your thrust; there's a good chance the other ship won't react fast enough, and you will end up in a much better position, possibly even on their tail. If you have some shields left, you can also turn flight assist off to do a 180° turn on the spot (while still going forward). There's also more complex maneuvers involving FAoff and the vertical thrusters.

As others pointed out, the challange in ED is not as much the combat itself, the challange lies more in chosing your battles, positioning yourself and find ways to equip your ship

I disagree; I find that there is a lot to learn in order to become a skilled pilot. And you can most of the time take out a stronger ship if you are a better pilot than your enemy. However, the huge difference with Star Citizen is that in Elite, combats are won or lost depending on your piloting skills; SC (in its current state) relies only on your aiming skills and fast reflexes.