Time to abandon it

[[VR] Mad Mike]

But isn't it more like the developers of NMS had to come up with free and frequent DLCs after the disaster of the initial release where they lost the majority of their customer base? As I see it, the Devs there had a choice, work their proverbial butts off and churn out a playable game or dump the entire thing in the nearest recycling bin. Definitely kudos to them for turning the entire game around but they were in a completely different situation to FD and ED.

My comments about HG were meant in isolation and was not meant to be a reflection on Frontier. edit... ok maybe that is not entirely true... I do wish FD had done as much with ED as HG have done with NMS, but different games are different and i get the feeling that NMS is easier to work on - I am certainly not hating on Frontier by using NMS against them however....... .... Lots of games launch and are a total disappointment. Most dont get turned around however they just get left to rot in an incomplete state.... Ones which pop in my head ..... Helion, Godus, Alien Colonial Marines, overkill TWD. (Note I am not putting ED anywhere near that list of shame!!!)

Am certain there are more.

Frontier launched a bare bones game imo........ but that said I think it was a fantastic game regardless. Had you of told me in ED Gamma period however that come 2020 we would only have had 1 paid expansion and it was possible to get double elite in under 24 hrs (not sure about combat, i think that still takes longer) I would not have believed you.

I looked at my steam review of the game back in 2015...... it is a shame that the review written then still pretty much stands today, most the issues - which I was confident would be fixed "soon" that I mentioned there are still in it now... but that said, if someone asked me today "Should I buy ED horizons"... my answer would still be "if you like the premise then, yes!", (albeit with some caveats)

I know some who disagree and think the game is progressing just fine, claiming it is exactly where it is expected to be.... and that is ok, everyone has their own opinions and all that!.

 

[Cosmo]

@Hellrider74. You can always take a break and check when the next update is released such as the Fleet Carriers in Q2 2020 and the new expansion by the end of 2020.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The steam stats for NMS are a massive launch thanks to the hypemachine followed within a few weeks by a mass exodus. They made an absolute mint on it initially though (AAA sales numbers according to the devs) so they can afford to sit around for the rest of their lives sub-contracting out the patches&DLC if they want.

This maybe true... however a lot of devs have in similar situations chosen to just leg it with the cash.
(Note am not accusing FD of this either.... but praising one dev team does not necessarily mean i am bashing another)

 

[Stigbob]

I don't realy care about what people think of NMS as a game, you either like it or don't.
My personal observation shows me though that Hello Games turned a bad start into a good follow up.
Fdev is doing exactly the opposite imho, turning a good start into a bad follow up, things getting worse with each update.
And don't get me started about new true content, reprioritizing is one of Fdev's trademark if you ask me.

You might not agree with me, that's fine, I can only make up my own verdict and act accordingly.
When a game is no longer fun then it's time to move on.
Whatever Fdev is gonna do about the long scan times in fss is decisive for me whether I keep playing or not.
Of course I hope they come up with a good solution but I also take into account that they may not.
It's not like they haven't disappointed before.

Its not exactly deep though is it.

Take the cap ships that other bloke was on about, in NMS you jump to a system blast a few pirates using the mouse and one button. They give you a freighter and you send frigates out on missions through a purely text based system by talking to a bloke who does an irritating little dance whenever you give him orders. Then after an hour or so you get money and stuff and repeat.

Meanwhile I'm scrubbing about on a planet trying to get bits to recharge my hyperspace engine. I'm a freighter captain, can't I spam an away team with this menial trash or keel haul the navigator to stop him dancing like a drunk dad at a wedding ?.

Its an odd blend of stuff jammed together inconsistently.

Fun though as long as you don't take it seriously or try to think for yourself as that breaks missions its strictly baby steps following the icon for success.

Still some random player gave me 17 million at the nexus for being a noob so that was nice.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

As recent buyer, I find the whole ADS/FSS argument more than a little funny.. The ADS still exists - it's called the Discovery Scanner and is a default item. And despite asking, no one seems willing/able to explain why I'm wrong.

The Discovery Scanner gives you the impression the ADS is still in the game because it shows the same effect in already discovered (by other players) systems, such as in the bubble.

If you venture into completely undiscovered (by other players and yourself) systems, you will notice the difference - after you honk, you will only see the stars, but no other bodies, in the system map. To resolve everything, you will have to use the FSS (or fly around and hope you get close to them for the scanner to automatically resolve them).

With the ADS, you just honked, and everything was available straightaway in the system map. That's the difference, and it really only affects players who are way out in the black.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

This. Combat is always fresh. Keep pushing the boundaries, challenge everything. Have you soloed a wing of Elite FdLs in a Sidewinder yet? No? There's more to do then.

For me, I love engineering. Sure the grind sucks, but I've gotten it down to a science so I'm not wasting too much time at it. Once I max my mats, I can do a season of engineering a half dozen builds or so.

And then I get to try those builds... in the fires of combat.

Bulletsponges aren't fresh. They're boring.

 

[Stigbob]

Bulletsponges aren't fresh. They're boring.

Tool up a bit.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Its not exactly deep though is it.

Take the cap ships that other bloke was on about, in NMS you jump to a system blast a few pirates using the mouse and one button. They give you a freighter and you send frigates out on missions through a purely text based system by talking to a bloke who does an irritating little dance whenever you give him orders. Then after an hour or so you get money and stuff and repeat.

Meanwhile I'm scrubbing about on a planet trying to get bits to recharge my hyperspace engine. I'm a freighter captain, can't I spam an away team with this menial trash or keel haul the navigator to stop him dancing like a drunk dad at a wedding ?.

Its an odd blend of stuff jammed together inconsistently.

Fun though as long as you don't take it seriously or try to think for yourself as that breaks missions its strictly baby steps following the icon for success.

Still some random player gave me 17 million at the nexus for being a noob so that was nice.

That's where I am roughly in NMS now, and with similar views of the game also. 38 hours of playtime (20 of which I must've spent restarting the game after changing settings, getting this to play at a reasonable (30fps) framerate while not making it look too ugly, with mixed results) and I can't find the motivation to go back to it. The grind mechanics are just too plain to see and while I can enjoy the game in small doses, it's no substitute for ED (13 weeks of playtime over 4 years) which I still fire up almost daily.

I see NMS more like a tech demo that shows what can be done with procedural generation (and its limitations) but it's not a space sim. Compared to ED it feels like playing with Lego Duplo after getting used to Lego Technic.

I do hope that Elite spacelegs will be nothing like in NMS (if spacelegs is what we'll actually get next year...). It's a chore to walk from A to B but I can't be bothered to grind ahead to unlock ground vehicles. Some day, maybe. When I don't want to play Elite, or any of the other games in my library (which does happen now and then!).

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

NMS is well, a developer keeping face (better earning respect) by maintaining their game.

Shame about the subject matter. Hipsters have gone away anyway they're stuck in some time warp.

 

[Stigbob]

That's where I am roughly in NMS now, and with similar views of the game also. 38 hours of playtime (20 of which I must've spent restarting the game after changing settings, getting this to play at a reasonable (30fps) framerate while not making it look too ugly, with mixed results) and I can't find the motivation to go back to it. The grind mechanics are just too plain to see and while I can enjoy the game in small doses, it's no substitute for ED (13 weeks of playtime over 4 years) which I still fire up almost daily.

It does quickly get very repetitive and blends simplistic graphics with stutter.

I see NMS more like a tech demo that shows what can be done with procedural generation (and its limitations) but it's not a space sim. Compared to ED it feels like playing with Lego Duplo after getting used to Lego Technic.

Quadrupeds with a variety of heads and tails as far as the scanner can see, spore had much more variety in lifeforms.

I do hope that Elite spacelegs will be nothing like in NMS (if spacelegs is what we'll actually get next year...). It's a chore to walk from A to B but I can't be bothered to grind ahead to unlock ground vehicles. Some day, maybe. When I don't want to play Elite, or any of the other games in my library (which does happen now and then!).

I think FDEV space-feet will be as far beyond the NMS version as their flight model currently is.

I unlocked and built one of the ground vehicles in NMS (mission goal) switched to 1st person view and the inside of the canopy isn't transparent. I couldn't see FDEV getting it that wrong.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Enjoying the comparisons between ED & NMS (I have about 300 Hrs in NMS) - Beyond in NMS introduced many changes, and the subsequent bug-bashing continues.
The major change, which was introducing Vulkan as the render engine (assuming for VR) should have been great, but instead 'sprite' graphics were dumbed down massively, below 2 shots of Frieghter & support ships, first OpenGL, second Vulkan from Beyond.

Both taken from planet surface from my main base.

I assume they were too complex to render in VR/Vulkan so were nerfed for all modes.
If you hadn't played pre-beyond the change is not relevent

I wonder how this forum would react if FDev 'improved' the rendering to the same standard.

That said, the game is improving (NMS) with each patch, but it does appear that the days of quality sprites are gone.

ETA: Just reloaded NMS and have a better (clearer) shot - I bought an S class freighter a couple of weeks ago - hence the difference.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Tool up a bit.

No.

 

[M00ka]

The Discovery Scanner gives you the impression the ADS is still in the game because it shows the same effect in already discovered (by other players) systems, such as in the bubble.

If you venture into completely undiscovered (by other players and yourself) systems, you will notice the difference - after you honk, you will only see the stars, but no other bodies, in the system map. To resolve everything, you will have to use the FSS (or fly around and hope you get close to them for the scanner to automatically resolve them).

With the ADS, you just honked, and everything was available straightaway in the system map. That's the difference, and it really only affects players who are way out in the black.

But isn't that the crux of the matter and what is confusing so many people. Both the ADS and the FSS gives the play the identical visual result, a populated system map. Just with the ADS it was instantaneous and with the FSS the player actually has to exert come effort (as in conducting the scan). It doesn't matter if the system is discovered, unknown to the user or totally unexplored, the end result is a populated System Map using both the ADS and FSS. The truth of the matter is for all the feet stomping, for all the threats of leaving the game, for all the prophecies of doom, the only thing the ADS had over the FSS is speed of execution. If someone is looking for the mythical Green Gas Giant they will find it using the FSS the same way they would find it using the ADS, by using the tool just one you get by a single click and is instant, the other takes a minute or so of menial work.

The other claim that is made is the ADS is needed to 'see the orbital planes' so the user can know if it is 'interesting'. What they don't mention, or having bother to find out, is that the user gets a far more detailed and clearer view of the orbital planes during the FSS scan, far better than what is represented in the simplistic system map.

 

[Stigbob]

Enjoying the comparisons between ED & NMS (I have about 300 Hrs in NMS) - Beyond in NMS introduced many changes, and the subsequent bug-bashing continues.
The major change, which was introducing Vulkan as the render engine (assuming for VR) should have been great, but instead 'sprite' graphics were dumbed down massively, below 2 shots of Frieghter & support ships, first OpenGL, second Vulkan from Beyond.
View attachment 153717
View attachment 153718

Both taken from planet surface from my main base.

I assume they were too complex to render in VR/Vulkan so were nerfed for all modes.
If you hadn't played pre-beyond the change is not relevent

I wonder how this forum would react if FDev 'improved' the rendering to the same standard.

That said, the game is improving (NMS) with each patch, but it does appear that the days of quality sprites are gone.

Have you seen pilots walking inside the docking bay of your freighter from the cockpit ?.

It really reminded me of duke nukem 3d.

 

[Stigbob]

No.

Lol, pebcak.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It does quickly get very repetitive and blends simplistic graphics with stutter.



Quadrupeds with a variety of heads and tails as far as the scanner can see, spore had much more variety in lifeforms.



I think FDEV space-feet will be as far beyond the NMS version as their flight model currently is.

Yeah I mean my CPU is no slouch so I don't think it's the bottleneck, but seeing what I do on display I don't know why my GPU (not that great, admittedly, but in Elite it copes with medium/high settings at standard res at mostly 50/60fps just fine) is struggling so much with settings at medium at best, and turned down resolution already. Elite looks believable and does provide "wow that is beautiful!" moment a lot more often and consistently than NMS does.

It's not even the lifeforms, it's everything - I can see the lego set underneath the game where it just plops things together at random. My personal favourites are planets with rocks floating about, while there's obviously gravity (which is always the same regardless of planet you're on).

There are quite a few issues with Elite but all things considered the underlying foundation (i.e. base concept of the game) is rock solid and keeps me coming back to it even though I should've gone stale on it years ago really. Elite gives a sense of place, whereas locations in NMS feel like levels in a game.

As for spacelegs, I don't really know what I'd want it to be like - definitely don't want an FPS (I just don't think FDev could pull it off although happy to be proven wrong ofc), but wandering around spaceships and stations (or planets) aimlessly isn't it either because the novelty will wear off quickly unless you build a LOT more detail into the game to give walking around some purpose.

But then I'm one of those who'd prefer FDev to focus on atmospherics first as ED is a spaceship game and 90% of the game's content is still locked away from the player via placeholders. I think that would make the game a much more well-rounded and complete experience, rather than bolting on walking and base building mechanics.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Have you seen pilots walking inside the docking bay of your freighter from the cockpit ?.

It really reminded me of duke nukem 3d.

Not yet... I still have a bug (from about 10 days back) which is preventing me clearing a frigate mission - it just CTD when I open one ship's screen. Just tried it again, CTD...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

But isn't that the crux of the matter and what is confusing so many people. Both the ADS and the FSS gives the play the identical visual result, a populated system map. Just with the ADS it was instantaneous and with the FSS the player actually has to exert come effort (as in conducting the scan). It doesn't matter if the system is discovered, unknown to the user or totally unexplored, the end result is a populated System Map using both the ADS and FSS. The truth of the matter is for all the feet stomping, for all the threats of leaving the game, for all the prophecies of doom, the only thing the ADS had over the FSS is speed of execution. If someone is looking for the mythical Green Gas Giant they will find it using the FSS the same way they would find it using the ADS, by using the tool just one you get by a single click and is instant, the other takes a minute or so of menial work.

The other claim that is made is the ADS is needed to 'see the orbital planes' so the user can know if it is 'interesting'. What they don't mention, or having bother to find out, is that the user gets a far more detailed and clearer view of the orbital planes during the FSS scan, far better than what is represented in the simplistic system map.

I had a couple of quick dips into Murdock's ADS thread, and I do understand the issue ADS proponents have - I find using the FSS unwieldy at times, especially in systems with 50+ bodies, and having to do that every time you enter a new system gets tiresome fast. I would agree that the better approach would be to have separate modules that do different things. Get an estimate view of the system after the honk, and if you want to know what's behind that, you start using the FSS.

But I can't see FDev changing course (and they've already confirmed this before even haven't they?) so am not going to get worked up about it. All things considered, I still prefer the FSS over the ADS (in its original form) any day but I'm also not an exploration anorak so can understand the gripes of those all the same.

 

[Zeeman]

This.

Nobody’s meant to play a given game forever. You play until it isn’t fun for you anymore and then you move on to one of the tens of thousands of other games out there.

That’s the cycle of gaming life. It’s amazing how many people around these parts have forgotten that.

This. I stopped playing a while ago now. I have chosen to not play anything else, but to go ride a bicycle, and work on a new business instead. That's life. At some stage, I'll got in again, maybe I'll enjoy and keep playing, maybe I'll just say "meh", and be done with it. Who cares, I have truly gotten great value from this game, even with a Lifetime Pass™, with well over 2000 hrs, I can't complain.

I still enjoy docking at full boost until the letterbox.

Z...

 

[M00ka]

I had a couple of quick dips into Murdock's ADS thread, and I do understand the issue ADS proponents have - I find using the FSS unwieldy at times, especially in systems with 50+ bodies, and having to do that every time you enter a new system gets tiresome fast. I would agree that the better approach would be to have separate modules that do different things. Get an estimate view of the system after the honk, and if you want to know what's behind that, you start using the FSS.

But I can't see FDev changing course (and they've already confirmed this before even haven't they?) so am not going to get worked up about it. All things considered, I still prefer the FSS over the ADS (in its original form) any day but I'm also not an exploration anorak so can understand the gripes of those all the same.

Nice reply, I must admit I was slightly hesitant about posting - it seems some (on both sides) have very thin skins on this issue and resent anyone having an opinion one way or the other. The thing is that FD made a decision and what is very rare for FD, actually posted a statement saying that although they know some will be upset, the FSS/DSS new mechanic is here to stay and the ADS will not be brought back. As we know, FD rarely make statements (because they tend to get thrown back at them when things go pear shaped) but they did regarding the ADS/FSS so to me that kind of means "yeah we know some are unhappy but we have made a decision and will stick to it."

Before someone jumps in and misquotes me staying the FSS is perfect, it is far from that. But look how FD integrated the FSS into different aspects of the game, from mission locating to material gathering to, well just about everything in the game. That to me indicates why FD won't take a step back regarding the ADS.