Well mode system quarantees 0 combat PvP everywhere. Go to Deciat anytime, no gankers. At Shinrarta only pilots messing up inside station are NPC's and so on. Clearly works better than any kind potential security arrangements.
Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle
- Thread starter Hans_Oktane
- Start date
Well yes, people generally don't like their stuff getting blown up. Especially if it has some quite heavy consequences. Like losing exploration data from months of effort.
Wrong. Don’t project your predjudice on everyone else.
I play solo exclusively and don’t worry at all about people in the other modes. The more players in the universe the better, irrespective of their chosen mode. Multi-mode is a great design concept that increases the number of total players which keeps the game financially viable.
As hard as it seems for you to understand, some people just don’t want to play in open. A choice just as valid as your preferred open preference.
You play the game your way and I’ll play my way. Elite accommodates us all.
Ideally that is accomplished by, say, keeping your shields intact. Explorers removing their shields to gain .07LY extra range only to complain it is unfair if anything happens to them are arguing from the perspective that the responsibility for their ship is with everything and everyone but themselves. This isn't strictly an Open vs Solo discussion, but a discussion about whether this game should actively present danger, risk and challenge to the player. Currently it does not; some love that risk-free blandness, others do not.
Yes, and in other news people who like fast ships won't want to use slow ships such as a T9. That is how creating diversity in a game world works: you create many different kind of things, and from that players pick the things they like. There are 400 billion systems, do you really need them all for yourself? You could easily have a Colonia-like min-bubble that is Open Only, for example.
Uhh..... large swaths? I guess size of space is relative. It is a pretty big galaxy. But yes there might be dangerous regions that some players might not go to in the alternative I gave. Player beware. Isn't this Elite Dangerous? And having a sliding scale of danger some players can move towards more dangerous areas. Grow smoothly into areas of higher danger.
That take is pretty bad. Demonstrably so. There is no system in game that kicks someone out of a Courier when I board a Cutter. No decrease in Cobra availability because I bought Conda. These choices are 100% demonstrably non-reductive. A system that makes places which one can use and exploit as desired currently and removes that choice is reductive and the opposite of diversity considering RIGHT NOW we can have that diverse range of experiences in the same place should we chose. The open only, safe/danger zones doesn't create that choice. It restricts the choice we already have for the galaxy in game as a whole.
It's a pretty empty galaxy. For the most part with any sense of verisimilitude you're not getting security out in the deep depths of uninhabited space. And for there to be and real spots of worth for PvP it means that at least some areas of inhabited space, places where people actually want to go on the regular, would need to be low security and involve risks not inherent currently. Also, the name of the game was after a rank, not a characterization. This was already clarified long ago by FDev.
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NPC's don't have any reason for blowing out exploration ships, as those do not carry valuable cargo, and they cannot steal data either. Only reason for blowing up such are "for the lulz" trolling and BGS "reazonz" (which in many cases are in reality "for the lulz"). So for flyer in such vessel solo is quite reasonable mode. Those explorers who want to partake in gankfest mode of course should equip their ships with systems you'll likely need for that crucial 0.1% of time.
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The point is that the Elite universe is supposed to be dangerous, the novels heavily emphasize the lawlessness of the galaxy and how people might very well kill you for next to no reason at all. There should be NPCs attacking my exploration ship on the way back. Flying an unshielded ship outside of the highest security zones should be incredibly dangerous.
It is a fundamental difference in perspective. Some want a true Elite-series game. Others want a space-trucking challenge-free asp-in-front-of-things game with an Elite skin on top for nostalgic reasons.
I like reasonably behaving NPC's. Unreasonable behauviour should be left for humans. And who is to say that space trucking fans are wrong in their gaming preference?
And in the scope of what this game, Elite: Dangerous, is they are completely just and right for wanting that. It's a valid playstyle, it's an encouraged playstyle, and changes to discourage it would be a slap in the face to the very core of what this game is built upon. So there's not really any situation in which that playstyle would ever be properly threatened by a decision made by FDev; they've at least made that much very clear.
You can keep your nice little bubble as it is, and you can add a new mini-bubble for people with a different preference. It would not change your experience in any way, other than the rather self-centered concern that instead of having a whopping 400 billion systems the way you want them, there would now only be a mere 399,999,999,000 systems for you. The fact that even this is an unacceptable concept to you means there is zero ground for any compromise because the very concept itself is unacceptable to you.
Unfortunately, it is an attitude that is extremely common in specifically this part of the ED community, and has been so since the game launched. Everything has to cater to every individual. New tutorials? Outrageous, I am not a noob! New combat ship? Outrageous, I don't like combat! Make the Cobra Mk IV available to all? Never, it is mine and even though I never fly it I love the feeling of other people not having it! A small little zone for people who want a certain playstyle? Not if it is not specifically what I want!
It is a shame. This game could be so much more to so many diverse people with different ideas and visions if people would just get over themselves already. I'm a PvE explorer on my way home in my Adder; I am not a PvP champ, a griefer, a BGS meddler or any those things. But I am willing to consider their views and see if we can maybe find a way to improve their experience in a way that doesn't immediately nullify the enjoyment others currently experience from their playstyle. It is a balancing act where everyone gives a bit so most people can have most fun, each in their own way.
And it starts with the understanding that the fun of other people is no less important or valuable than my own fun.
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You don't need a mini bubble. You already have the current one. In Open. And everything around it in the whole galaxy. In Open.
There's some deep irony in claiming you're considering the fun of others while advocating removing a mode people enjoy despite other people who enjoy different things already having their own mode.
PvP fans allready have their own "bubble", one having 400 billion systems. It is just riling some of them that partaking in that bubble is entirely optional.
I. Am. Not. Arguing. For. The. Removal. Of. A. Mode.
Oh well, when people are this entrenched, this unable to even try to understand what other people may say and this unwilling to approach a topic from anything other than some reductionist us vs them perspective discussion is next to futile. I'm off for the evening!
I. Am. Not. Arguing. For. The. Removal. Of. A. Mode.
Oh well, when people are this entrenched discussion is next to futile. I'm off for the evening!
Wait, so you came into the discussion, picked my response to someone who was advocating for open only, someone who was advocating security states as a catch all for the reasons people chose solo/PG in the first place, arguing that making places people might already be could and should become effectively designated PvP friendly zones, and decided that was a good spot to argue diversity of choice from?
I mean, if you defend the proposal someone put forth for open only why would I not think you were arguing open only?
You are obviously arguing for the sake of arguing.
There are a large number of extremely popular games that provide regions of difficulty/danger for players. Usually these games gate the areas so players not ready don't stumble in. Many players spend minimal time in the easy friendly areas while others never see the most challenging areas... oh well.
In ED there is a very large Bubble of civilized space. Designating certain areas as low risk friendly and others as crazy dangerous hardly puts a significant limitation on most players. Remembering that a large fraction of players in solo focus on exploration.... and they don't want risk being destroyed when coming in to sell their data after weeks or months of exploration. Another large group of players don't want to risk their non-combat ship blown up by a ganker when visiting Felicity Farseer for FSD engineering. Of course there is the other large group that are just learning to fly a ship and aren't really combat ready yet, obviously safer in solo.
But... in summary...
Most games tend to not have the type of location specific resources ED does, IE engineer bases and/or have PvP/PvE server distinctions or safe zones. And the few I've seen that don't actually have reasons beyond pushing PvP for the sake of it. Open only and security states in themselves are just means by which to put more players in other players sights. In a game where PvP might be more meaningful, IE: Eve and territory acquisition, theft and the economic resource cycle, then maybe it would be warranted. But they did a lot to support that that ED doesn't do.
The PvE scenario though? That's another issue. ED made it such that 1) Engineer power scaling is bonkers and one man's deadly encounter is another's easy mode so we can't make a one size fit all and 2) The biggest existential threat requires an entirely different weapon set that's not as effective against anything else in the game. A lot needs resolved before we just lok at it and say "add challenge here".
That's largely my point. Farseer is unsafe because her services are desirable and people who want to attack other people know this. PvP hotspots get created because there are draws to a location other than PvP.
At the same time:
I was responding to the proposal you made, not the likelihood of the game actually adopting it. If it makes me argumentative for the sake of it for responding does that make you argumentative for the sake of it for posting it?
After laughing at this silly statement I just couldn't read anymore. Discussion = waste of time.
Try making it just a handful more words. To the part that posts what I mean. Engineer Bases. The things we have only one of for each of them and most offering something unique to them. Most games don't have the "one spot" issue unless it's a protected area. Zones often, but not one base on one planet.
It's baseless to make a direct comparison between something you do have and something you don't.