To all those moaning about being killed around Jaques bu other players.

[Fracktal]

And using an Anaconda with lots of AMFUs would solve what problem exactly?
Or an Asp with AMFU, interdictor and weapons?

Why exactly shouldn't a FDL, T-9 or Sidewinder be able to reach the other side of the galaxy? Just because those aren't "real" exploration vessels?

Such ships should be able to reach the other side of the galaxy, if they are properly equipped.

Do you think a trading ship, not fitted for combat, should be able to fight on par a Combat ship?
So why shouldn't the same restriction apply to exploration?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

But that is the problem though. You are arguing the point that a Cleric, Ranger, Fighter, Wizard and Theif in D&D should all be able to do the same things, thus make any difference between them, thus taking a lot of depth and character creation away from the game. And you are arguing for the same in Elite Dangerous. Don't bother taking an DBX out exploring, take a FDL setup for pure combat...
…

I think you have absolutely no clue what it's like to fly a FDL or Corvette to Jaques.

There is a huge difference between DBX and a FDL in exploration. Jump range matters. It matters a lot.

 

[Jypson]

But that is the problem though. You are arguing the point that a Cleric, Ranger, Fighter, Wizard and Theif in D&D should all be able to do the same things, thus destroying any difference between them, thus taking a lot of depth and character creation away from the game. And you are arguing for the same in Elite Dangerous. Don't bother taking an DBX out exploring, take a FDL setup for pure combat...

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Yes it would, because fighter class ships would never be able to get there let alone even go a fraction of the distance required.

> Ah, here is the disagreement then. Ships aren't classes, it's how you outfit them that creates their class.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

> Ah, here is the disagreement then. Ships aren't classes, it's how you outfit them that creates their class.

Since some ships are better at certain roles it's not surprising that some think that ships are classes. You can do what ever you want, a DBX won't become a fighter and a FDL won't become a usable explorer (unless the pilot is masochistic).

 

[SkipRat]

So here you are, arguing that certain ships shouldn't be used for tasks and functions they weren't designed for...but still advise an explorer to use a combat built ship?

Doesn't that mean you just contradicted yerself?

"Don't bother taking an DBX out exploring, take a FDL setup for pure combat..."

You do realise that this was a sarcastic comment to make a point? I really, do wish people would also take into context things are also said.

 

[Mengy]

So by difficulty, what do you mean?

That’s an excellent question! Allow me to elaborate.

The difficulty that the majority of explorers want in Elite can be termed as “environmental difficulties”. Hazards out and about in deep space that we would encounter while exploring. Take fuel scooping for example, the act of fuel scooping itself should be challenging, involving flying around solar flares and navigating through corona ejections and such. There could also be systems out in deep space that have intense solar storms or magnetic phenomena all throughout the system which makes exploring the system hazardous. If comets were in the game then they could be able to be deep scanned for huge payouts, but scanning them would involve flying very close in their wake requiring piloting around debris and such or risk damaging your ship. And with the added regularity of ship damage the AFMU then becomes much more necessary and frequently used, which uses ammo much faster, thus requiring explorers to land on planet surfaces much more often in order to replenish supplies. In that vein repairing the ship in deep space should be more involving too, requiring more materials than simply “AFMU ammo”, thereby forcing explorers to actually land more often and search stuff out. Simply adding module degradation over time would add more use for the AFMU with deep space exploring.

The whole process of exploring should ideally be more challenging while also being more interactive, rather than simply jumping and honking endlessly. More risks to take, more opportunities for damage, more things to do and explore, just more engaging.

 

[Jypson]

Since some ships are better at certain roles it's not surprising that some think that ships are classes. You can do what ever you want, a DBX won't become a fighter and a FDL won't become a usable explorer (unless the pilot is masochistic).

Or have some pull with the crazy tinkerers My FDL has a very healthy jump-range if outfitted for exploration.

 

[SkipRat]

That’s an excellent question! Allow me to elaborate.

The difficulty that the majority of explorers want in Elite can be termed as “environmental difficulties”. Hazards out and about in deep space that we would encounter while exploring. Take fuel scooping for example, the act of fuel scooping itself should be challenging, involving flying around solar flares and navigating through corona ejections and such. There could also be systems out in deep space that have intense solar storms or magnetic phenomena all throughout the system which makes exploring the system hazardous. If comets were in the game then they could be able to be deep scanned for huge payouts, but scanning them would involve flying very close in their wake requiring piloting around debris and such or risk damaging your ship. And with the added regularity of ship damage the AFMU then becomes much more necessary and frequently used, which uses ammo much faster, thus requiring explorers to land on planet surfaces much more often in order to replenish supplies. In that vein repairing the ship in deep space should be more involving too, requiring more materials than simply “AFMU ammo”, thereby forcing explorers to actually land more often and search stuff out.

The whole process of exploring should ideally be more challenging while also being more interactive, rather than simply jumping and honking endlessly. More risks to take, more opportunities for damage, more things to do and explore, just more engaging.

General wear and tear should be the number one danger. A good explorer knows how take his ships to the limit, but know where that limit is and utilise every trick in the book to maximise his time in space.

Having people in FDL's shooting him should never in a month of Sunday's ever be something to worry about in deep space.

 

[Jypson]

That’s an excellent question! Allow me to elaborate.

The difficulty that the majority of explorers want in Elite can be termed as “environmental difficulties”. Hazards out and about in deep space that we would encounter while exploring. Take fuel scooping for example, the act of fuel scooping itself should be challenging, involving flying around solar flares and navigating through corona ejections and such. There could also be systems out in deep space that have intense solar storms or magnetic phenomena all throughout the system which makes exploring the system hazardous. If comets were in the game then they could be able to be deep scanned for huge payouts, but scanning them would involve flying very close in their wake requiring piloting around debris and such or risk damaging your ship. And with the added regularity of ship damage the AFMU then becomes much more necessary and frequently used, which uses ammo much faster, thus requiring explorers to land on planet surfaces much more often in order to replenish supplies. In that vein repairing the ship in deep space should be more involving too, requiring more materials than simply “AFMU ammo”, thereby forcing explorers to actually land more often and search stuff out. Simply adding module degradation over time would add more use for the AFMU with deep space exploring.

The whole process of exploring should ideally be more challenging while also being more interactive, rather than simply jumping and honking endlessly. More risks to take, more opportunities for damage, more things to do and explore, just more engaging.

Sounds good to me, might just convince me to head back out again. Last time I went out in the black was to go to Sag A in my iClipper back in.....1.3?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Or have some pull with the crazy tinkerers My FDL has a very healthy jump-range if outfitted for exploration.

Even then. 20 ly jump rang? Jaques is a long way away from Sol. My DBX has around 44 ly jump range, without being jump-range optimized.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

But that is the problem though. You are arguing the point that a Cleric, Ranger, Fighter, Wizard and Theif in D&D should all be able to do the same things, thus destroying any difference between them, thus taking a lot of depth and character creation away from the game. And you are arguing for the same in Elite Dangerous. Don't bother taking an DBX out exploring, take a FDL setup for pure combat...

Well it seems your core issue has been uncovered. You'd like all ships to have an identity beyond module count, pitch speed, boost speed and tankiness. Unfortunately this isn't the game for you.

While I too would have preferred if each ship had its own specific list of weapons and modules it can equip to make them uniquely valuable to the game, that's not the game we have. Ship-limited loadouts (like only being able to equip missile launchers on 2 or 3 ships) would give real variety to ships, real reason for continuing to fly small, cheap ships even after you're a billionaire, and allow for the kind of differentiation that makes would bring meaning to the "Explorer" title in a ship name (perhaps only the explorer class of ships would be able to carry AFMUs or special plating or food stores needed for deep space time and travel).

But...that's not what we have. Ships are not differentiated in meaningful ways. Every ship can be more or less equipped the same way and do any task you desire. Different ships only provide different ranges of patience required to complete a task. I could go mine in an Imperial Courier if I really wanted to. Personally I'd rather E required me to be in a mining vessel to do mining tasks. But I'm about 99% sure they won't be retroactively adding that kind of depth and complexity to the game. Perhaps Star Citizen will add that sort of variety.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

That’s an excellent question! Allow me to elaborate.

The difficulty that the majority of explorers want in Elite can be termed as “environmental difficulties”. Hazards out and about in deep space that we would encounter while exploring. Take fuel scooping for example, the act of fuel scooping itself should be challenging, involving flying around solar flares and navigating through corona ejections and such. There could also be systems out in deep space that have intense solar storms or magnetic phenomena all throughout the system which makes exploring the system hazardous. If comets were in the game then they could be able to be deep scanned for huge payouts, but scanning them would involve flying very close in their wake requiring piloting around debris and such or risk damaging your ship. And with the added regularity of ship damage the AFMU then becomes much more necessary and frequently used, which uses ammo much faster, thus requiring explorers to land on planet surfaces much more often in order to replenish supplies. In that vein repairing the ship in deep space should be more involving too, requiring more materials than simply “AFMU ammo”, thereby forcing explorers to actually land more often and search stuff out. Simply adding module degradation over time would add more use for the AFMU with deep space exploring.

The whole process of exploring should ideally be more challenging while also being more interactive, rather than simply jumping and honking endlessly. More risks to take, more opportunities for damage, more things to do and explore, just more engaging.

Sounds cool, but wouldn't prevent anybody to use a more combat oriented ship to do that.

 

[SkipRat]

> Ah, here is the disagreement then. Ships aren't classes, it's how you outfit them that creates their class.

Nope, you are arguing the same point as the other person.

They may no be "classes", but they have all been designed with specific roles in mind.

You are justifying making taking something away from the game, so you ship can do everything, in exactly the same players of RPGMMO, try justify why there class and characters should be able to do everything.

 

[Toumal]

You should be asking Frontier Developments why they have allowed combat class ships to have the ability to be 22,000 light years from home in the first place?

Well, imagine the uproar if people could only drive their anaconda within in a 50ly sphere. I say fine, let the combat-oriented ships be 22.000ly (nothing prevents you from refitting a long-distance ship, and you can travel through europe with a Porsche too...

Sociopathic behavior should have realistic consequences, i.e. if you fly around killing indiscriminately, it should neither pay nor have anyone remain friends with you. If they want to roleplay Mohammed Atta in the game, I say let them, but let them face the consequences. And no sidey-bounty-reset.

If a known mass killer jumps out of SC near a station, that station should scramble everything it has to intercept that guy. And perhaps even not allow him to respawn there at all. That would get rid of the sociopaths near Jaques' rather quickly.

 

[Jypson]

Even then. 20 ly jump rang? Jaques is a long way away from Sol. My DBX has around 44 ly jump range, without being jump-range optimized.

My FDL has 20ly range with a full combat loadout

Nope, you are arguing the same point as the other person.

They may no be "classes", but they have all been design with specific roles in mind.

You are justifying making taking something away from the game, so you ship can do everything, in exactly the same players of RPGMMO, try justify why there class and characters should be able to do everything.

You don't have much experience with building and modding IRL do you. What's meant to be and what is, is two very different things.

I'm not trying to take anything from anyone, just the opposite in fact.

 

[Mengy]

Sounds cool, but wouldn't prevent anybody to use a more combat oriented ship to do that.

No it wouldn’t, but then I’m honestly not against combat ships being able to explore deep space, BUT I feel they should have to give up a considerable amount of combat ability to do so. One slot for the fuel scoop, one or more for the AFMU, one for the SRV bay, two each for the ADS and DSS. On top of that though I feel like there really should be some more exploration specific modules in the game too, something like thermal armor that is super lightweight but helps with heat efficiency when close to stars. Shields geared towards preventing or lessening damage from the magnetic deep space storms I mentioned above. Stuff like that would make exploration ships more tailored while also forcing combat ships to give up some combat ability if they wanted to follow us into the void.

 

[SkipRat]

My FDL has 20ly range with a full combat loadout

You don't have much experience with building and modding IRL do you. What's meant to be and what is, is two very different things.

I'm not trying to take anything from anyone, just the opposite in fact.

Sorry, but you are and you don't even realise it. And that is the truly sad thing.

 

[Jypson]

Sorry, but you are and you don't even realise it. And that is the truly sad thing.

This has to be opposite day, it's the only thing that makes sense at this point. [squeeeee]

 

[Lightspeed]

I'm really surprised mindless griefers are that far out at Jaques, because getting there requires a lot of mind control and dedication.

Are you sure they are just griefing, or is it pirating that has ended up with a killing? I know there's not much difference sometimes, but both can be solved by going to Solo mode.

 

[SkipRat]

I'm really surprised mindless griefers are that far out at Jaques, because getting there requires a lot of mind control and dedication.

Are you sure they are just griefing, or is it pirating that has ended up with a killing? I know there's not much difference sometimes, but both can be solved by going to Solo mode.

That is a mute point in the context of this friend.