To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[ethelred]

I totally get this, it only takes a few bad encounters to realise that if this does not offer anything fun for you, why should you keep exposing yourself for that? And this is core of the issue, those players who thrive on doing PvP against other players, will make open more empty by doing that. because players get more aware that they are now going to a "hotspot" and thus, they avoid going there in Open. so they might be still be playing 90% of their time in Open, elsewhere, but avoid it when it comes to these known "hotspots"


And we get these kinds of threads, where the very same players who caused the issue to begin with, now want to "force" players into open, by any means possible, lure them there, offer higher rewards, lock specific stuff there, or simply make open the only available game mode.

Not sure about that. Yes, for some being on the recieving end of destruction is off putting and may make them consider other modes.

But take a look at Inara - there doesn't seem to be any lack of PvP encounters, even at the hotspots.

There will be a new CG next week I think - that system will quickly appear at the top of the PvP activity list.

There's no suggestion that Open is being made into a desert, or at least no compelling evidence for that.

I also tend to think that threads like these are a genuine attempt to encourage (not force) Open play - as we can see from Inara stats there are no lack of targets.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Inara makes no distinction between organized PVP and ganking.
This makes it hard to determine how the numbers should be weighted.
The non Colonia Bridge CGs recently have been quiet for campers.

 

[KillaALF]

.....

I also tend to think that threads like these are a genuine attempt to encourage (not force) Open play - as we can see from Inara stats there are no lack of targets.

Which rather begs the question why it needs encouragement at all. As a solo player I certainly never felt compelled to encourage others to try it (solo) out, even though it is the technically most robust mode. I simply don't care how and in which mode others play the game. The one thing that Frontier got right there is that we can switch modes at will.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And we get these kinds of threads, where the very same players who caused the issue to begin with, now want to "force" players into open, by any means possible, lure them there, offer higher rewards, lock specific stuff there, or simply make open the only available game mode.

Given the apparent lack of players who engage in PvP, given the Inara data spanning 30 days and covering "tens of thousands of players", there doesn't seem to be a compelling case for gating any content to Open, i.e. it's still the case that most players don't get involved in PvP (as we were advised long ago by one Dev).

 

[SergMx]

Because the game does not have a corporate mode (like Mobius) by default, many pilots fly solo and do not interact in the game.

That's not the way we chose to play the game.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Because the game does not have a corporate mode (like Mobius) by default, many pilots fly solo and do not interact in the game.

That's not the way we chose to play the game.

Depends on. If I want to have that good old Elite experience without any hassle, I fly solo.

 

[SergMx]

Depends on. If I want to have that good old Elite experience without any hassle, I fly solo.

COOPERATIVE MODE

COOPERATIVE MODE (no corporate) variant 1. ---------- Add another mode. Of the main features, shooting a person at a person does not cause damage. Exceptions: people are not in the Power Powers warring among themselves, In areas of conflict when choosing the opposing parties. Interception...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I don't think this mode will be made for technical reasons. In that case almost everyone will play this mode instead of single player mode and create a lot of technical problems...

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Okay, maybe I exaggerated. Still, I very rarely played Open, and it didn't usually work out well. I remember one particular time when I got interdicted over and over, another time that I got destroyed, and another where someone was blocking a landing pad on an outpost, making it impossible to land.

Not to say I won't try it again, it's just that it makes me nervous.

Thanks for the more honest assessment.
My advice: get a small fast ship with a low rebuy such as a viper III, cobra III or Courier, do at least G3 dirty drives with G3 shields, and fly them in open if and when you feel like it. You won’t see anyone anyway unless you go to a CG or one of the known hotspots, which you can find on Inara.cz. If you do get blown up, the rebuy is no problem and you’ll start to realize it wasn’t a big deal. Then you may just decide you prefer solo anyway, and that’s fine.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Not sure about that. Yes, for some being on the recieving end of destruction is off putting and may make them consider other modes.

But take a look at Inara - there doesn't seem to be any lack of PvP encounters, even at the hotspots.

There will be a new CG next week I think - that system will quickly appear at the top of the PvP activity list.

There's no suggestion that Open is being made into a desert, or at least no compelling evidence for that.

I also tend to think that threads like these are a genuine attempt to encourage (not force) Open play - as we can see from Inara stats there are no lack of targets.

and yet, there are still players that form time tom time complains about a lack of targets...coupled with that inara is opt-in...


Anyway, why do we have so many threads on the topic of getting more players to play in open? and couple that with another re-occuring theme, rework block to be chat only... simply connect the dots and we have an issue where the theme is we need more players to be avaialbe for PvP...

 

[Stonelaughter]

I'm under the impression that a lot of people, including myself, prefer to play Solo mode all the time, not because we don't want to play with others, but simply because we don't want to PVP others.

Keeping things short, today many of the ways to engage into PVP have been disabled, pacifist mode is a menu option that makes it almost impossible to engage in PVP, and while the game's reputation will forever be tarnished by its launch, its actually in a better than many people expected (which can't be said for games like EA's Anthem...

Back to Elite Dangerous, I think a lot more people would like to try playing in Open Play with random strangers in Elite if they had the choice to opt out from PVP, like having an aforementioned pacifist mode that disabled PVP interactions.

But that's just my impression, and I would like to hear what other thinks on this matter:

Do you think that Open Play would be negatively affected if PVP could be disabled?

Do you think Elite could benefit from having more people try to play & cooperate with others in Open Play?

I just wish everyone would stop equating bullying with more general PvP. I'm happy to engage in combat with whoever; what I'm not happy with is running the risk of being one-shotted by someone who has a massively engineered combat ship when I'm in my Cobra MkIII when I've been playing for 3 weeks. There should be some sort of filter or screen whereby a hugely OP combat bully can only engage people within a certain range of their rank and ship capability. Maybe those n00bs would show up as NPC to them?

Yes, the option to switch off PvP would assist me to move unmolested through the galaxy, but it's simply hiding the problem. Ganking isn't PvP it's toxic, bullying, sociopath behaviour which brings nothing to the gameplay of anyone; neither the ganker (bully) nor the victim gain anything from it. PvP combat isn't necessarily about evenly matched opponents, I agree; but it is definitely NOT about using the next generation of (PAYING) Elite customers as tin cans on a wall.

 

[ethelred]

and yet, there are still players that form time tom time complains about a lack of targets...coupled with that inara is opt-in...


Anyway, why do we have so many threads on the topic of getting more players to play in open? and couple that with another re-occuring theme, rework block to be chat only... simply connect the dots and we have an issue where the theme is we need more players to be avaialbe for PvP...

I'd hazard a guess why there are so many "Open is empty" threads because to the typical pilot - Open is indeed empty.

This means that interactions with other CMDRs for ANY activity is low - not just pew pew.

Think about it this way. All organised social CMDRs are part of discords/teamspeak/etc so can hop on with other CMDRs in Open or PG whenever they like because they have the social support already.

"Lone wolf" CMDRs only have people they meet in game - in Open (though ofc the size of Mobius helps too) which for most of the galaxy is empty. I imagine it is these CMDRs who open this multiple "Where is everyone" threads.

It's possible, though IMHO unlikely, you'd get a "ganker" issuing a call for more targets in a disguised thread - especially this one where the original premise was to remove PvP entirely. How would that even work, except in a general sense?

 

[Misty_Dark]

I'd hazard a guess why there are so many "Open is empty" threads because to the typical pilot - Open is indeed empty.

This means that interactions with other CMDRs for ANY activity is low - not just pew pew.

Think about it this way. All organised social CMDRs are part of discords/teamspeak/etc so can hop on with other CMDRs in Open or PG whenever they like because they have the social support already.

"Lone wolf" CMDRs only have people they meet in game - in Open (though ofc the size of Mobius helps too) which for most of the galaxy is empty. I imagine it is these CMDRs who open this multiple "Where is everyone" threads.

It's possible, though IMHO unlikely, you'd get a "ganker" issuing a call for more targets in a disguised thread - especially this one where the original premise was to remove PvP entirely. How would that even work, except in a general sense?

so? why is open empty, except the obvious answer of huge play area...but that weas not what I wrote about. do not shuffle around the arguments to avoid the core issue.


Because it does not really matter how you slice and dice the arguments, in the end we will always circle back to the elephant in the room, unwanted unwarranted PvP. and the fact that players have excellent tools to deal with this. They can choose joining a private group with friends or randoms (like Mobius), play in solo, or block unwanted players that bring no fun to their game. And who are the biggest proponents against these choices? players in favour of PvP...

and then we get back to what I wrote, the threads about how to get more players into open, and the threads about the "broken" block function...and round and round we go... where one group will avoid any kind of responsibility that they are the root cause of the issue, as their preferred gameplay then trickles down to cause issues for just about anyone wanting to play in open for any reason...




PvE players, are almost always ok with PvP being present in the game, as long as they can choose to avoid it.
PvP players, are much less accepting that some players can choose to avoid it.


And we also know that the the group of players that only does PvE stuff, is much larger then the group of players who also engage in PvP... This is from FDev, and this is also reflected in other MMO's aswell.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

There should be some sort of filter or screen whereby a hugely OP combat bully can only engage people within a certain range of their rank and ship capability

Fdev has decided there should be a free for all mode where the players more less sort themselves out, and I believe there is a place for such a mode and I for one enjoy it that way.

 

[CMDR Egmont]

I'd hazard a guess why there are so many "Open is empty" threads because to the typical pilot - Open is indeed empty.

This means that interactions with other CMDRs for ANY activity is low - not just pew pew.

Think about it this way. All organised social CMDRs are part of discords/teamspeak/etc so can hop on with other CMDRs in Open or PG whenever they like because they have the social support already.

"Lone wolf" CMDRs only have people they meet in game - in Open (though ofc the size of Mobius helps too) which for most of the galaxy is empty. I imagine it is these CMDRs who open this multiple "Where is everyone" threads.

It's possible, though IMHO unlikely, you'd get a "ganker" issuing a call for more targets in a disguised thread - especially this one where the original premise was to remove PvP entirely. How would that even work, except in a general sense?

Yes, there exists a growing Discord subculture of ex-players who talk about the game but never play it. I don’t play enough games to know if this is common or what but it’s interesting.

 

[Brrokk]

Yes, there exists a growing Discord subculture of ex-players who talk about the game but never play it. I don’t play enough games to know if this is common or what but it’s interesting.

Wow, have they got too much time on their hands or something?

 

[CMDR Egmont]

Given the apparent lack of players who engage in PvP, given the Inara data spanning 30 days and covering "tens of thousands of players", there doesn't seem to be a compelling case for gating any content to Open, i.e. it's still the case that most players don't get involved in PvP (as we were advised long ago by one Dev).

That says more about the game design than general interest in PvP. Lots of players want to try PvP but eventually wash out because of the grind wall for mats and credits and other artificial obstacles to PvP.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That says more about the game design than general interest in PvP. Lots of players want to try PvP but eventually wash out because of the grind wall for mats and credits and other artificial obstacles to PvP.

The game was not designed to revolve around PvP either nor is PvP a requirement of any game feature (except CQC, but that's out of game) - so that likely has quite a lot to do with the composition of the player-base that has joined the game over the years.

 

[Darrack]

Thanks for the more honest assessment.
My advice: get a small fast ship with a low rebuy such as a viper III, cobra III or Courier, do at least G3 dirty drives with G3 shields, and fly them in open if and when you feel like it. You won’t see anyone anyway unless you go to a CG or one of the known hotspots, which you can find on Inara.cz. If you do get blown up, the rebuy is no problem and you’ll start to realize it wasn’t a big deal. Then you may just decide you prefer solo anyway, and that’s fine.

So if i wont see anyone unless its for a CG what is the point?
I aint going to do CGs in Open so basically Open is that dead i may as well be in Solo?

O7

 

[sandkid]

I'd hazard a guess why there are so many "Open is empty" threads because to the typical pilot - Open is indeed empty.

This means that interactions with other CMDRs for ANY activity is low - not just pew pew.

Think about it this way. All organised social CMDRs are part of discords/teamspeak/etc so can hop on with other CMDRs in Open or PG whenever they like because they have the social support already.

"Lone wolf" CMDRs only have people they meet in game - in Open (though ofc the size of Mobius helps too) which for most of the galaxy is empty. I imagine it is these CMDRs who open this multiple "Where is everyone" threads.

It's possible, though IMHO unlikely, you'd get a "ganker" issuing a call for more targets in a disguised thread - especially this one where the original premise was to remove PvP entirely. How would that even work, except in a general sense?

Open is generally empty because...

1) Elite does a terrible job of enticing players to group up in any activity beyond CGs or player-made content like DW2.
2) The aforementioned few activities are inevitably ruthlessly hunted by gankers in open because, well, open is open. In the name.
3) Even if the majority of players didn't mind ganking (which is probably true, if you think about it) there is hardly any incentive to play in open even with friends.

The trouble isn't that open needs incentives, as many in this thread shoot for. The trouble is that open sucks as a multiplayer mode.
Because Elite sucks as a multiplayer game in most cases.

You want more people in Open? Which category are you in?

• I want to see more commanders in Open
• I want to play with more commanders in Open

If you're in the first group, I've got bad news: not happening. 1:1 Galaxy, remember? No Man's Sky has a huge civilization bubble in the game because massive games make finding people all but impossible. Turns out, humans are social (mostly). Who knew?! So it doesn't take long for the, "Woah...I'm alone!" to wear off and be replaced with, "Woah...this game is empty."

You will never see enough people in Open Mode. Period.

Now, if you're in the second group...the issue then is multiplayer content. The new SRV on PC is an example of supporting this. Developing settlements in EDO to favor multiplayer interactions (you hack, I protect, w/e) also supports this. EDO has some of these components and, hopefully, they'll get expanded. If you're on console like me, you're stuck in the Horizons client that generally lacks strong multiplayer design.

Multicrew years later is still a joke barely fit for release. Gunner seat is pointless except for the pip. Moreover, flying in someone's ship inherently gimps your team more than everyone flying their own ship, a huge oversight on balance and design.

Squadrons UI doesn't support recruiting, content management, calendars, or much of anything besides having a cool name nobody will read. Organizing small multiplayer is, therefore, not remotely intuitive to the game.

Fleet Carriers offer a glimpse of emergent gameplay, especially for trading, but the game doesn't support player-made economies. Just fighting over the BGS that (checks notes) has virtually no impact on the typical player's session. Because the galaxy is TOO DARN BIG. (This isn't to suggest it should be smaller, just pointing out why it doesn't work).

The list goes on.


You want people to play together in open? Give them more reasons to play together.

(But...but...they'll just play in PG!)
Yeah. And? Who is stopping you from playing in PG? You want more players to play with, right? Get in a PG.
(But...nobody wants to play with me because I'm <fill in the blank>)
Tough luck, bud. Some of us were born to fly solo. Just is what it is. Nobody wanted to haul passengers with me. I feel ya.

Really, now, this isn't hard. Making the game open-only would kill the game. Elite is a PvE-centric game with a terribly designed PvP-centric crime system. It's no small wonder these threads keep happening (and growing). Killing off open would probably hurt the game, too, because emergent multiplayer is always more fun and makes for good press. FDev decided to split the fence and try to have cake and eat it too.

Game has been a mess (multiplayer-wise) ever since. Cat is out of the bag, they'll never get it back in.

 

[sandkid]

The game was not designed to revolve around PvP either nor is PvP a requirement of any game feature (except CQC, but that's out of game) - so that likely has quite a lot to do with the composition of the player-base that has joined the game over the years.

This right here.

Except...

Why, then, does Elite have a PvP-centric model for handling player conflict?
Why build a game that is so obvious PvE-centric, then haphazardly throw in a C&P system that incents PvP, especially murder (ganking)?

It boggles the mind. Like I said, cat is out of the bag now...FDev would be taking (some kind of) player loss if they were to nix PvP and make it consensual or highly contained...which is probably should have been from the start. Too late now. Kind of like any number of features also haphazardly launched and forgotten.

Funny, mentioning CQC. It's almost as if FDev knew they were making a PvE-centric game and someone realized having a PvP mode would be useful for the more trigger happy of us, but contained away from the main game to keep the PvE playerbase (the majority) happy about the game.

It is forever incredible to me how much of Elite's initial design choices make sense...and how most of the choices made since launch make zero sense. Case Study in how not to manage development.