To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Another thread that won't do the decent thing XD.

Anyway, a few things then:

If you want to enhance the PvE experience in the game in open, then I'd argue simply for enhancing the PvE experience of the game. For many, the PvE gameplay is too weak without the extra on top that the potential for organic CMDR encounters can provide. Splitting the game into a PvP mode and a PvE mode removes that possibility. PvP flags effectively translate to a request for or prohibition of PvP, again removing this middle ground. But this would be less controversial if the PvE were actually good enough to stand on its own.

Also, players' frustration with the PvE available (mission design, NPC behaviour, challenge spectrum) is a prime reason they turn to PvP or blowing up newbs for salt. PvP might be prohibited in a PvE mode or via no-PvP flags, griefing will not. The loss of organic open by making open-PvE and open-PvP will, however, further frustrate many players - your best hope is that they leave the game, which seems an odd thing to argue for.

"Meaningful" PvP exists, if that's what anyone is missing - powerplay in open. In-context, sense-making, in-universe-incentive-driven PvP. Attacking/defending(/surviving) haulage, attacking/defending PvE combatants/escaping, PvE combatants fighting each other. It also has a magical property of turning hardcore PvPers into open-PvEers (a term I'm inventing which has a dimension of - universe-consistent - PvP due to the PvE being oppositional, organised, and carried out in open). If you want fewer bored PvPers roaming open, you could do worse than to argue to make powerplay a more obvious option for them, maybe even gear it more explicitly toward open play to attract organic players.

Similar is true of C&P and security design. It'll never protect newbs from a g5 frag mamba that's just interdicted them, its goal (in an inter-player context) is instead to create landscapes of incentive/penalty to shape behaviour, and routes toward "legitimate" PvP engagement (notably, reducing frequency of encounters some find so problematic).

Finally, if you really want open-PvE mode, go to the other 99.999% of systems. This is probably the clincher for FDev as regards implementing another mode. Because even in open with an empty block list and good internet at peak times on PC, you have the whole* galaxy to play in without PvP. It's just not like those other games that "need" a PvE mode. If we're talking about CGs (and Deciat and such) in open, the only place this proposal can potentially be relevant, then that's a conundrum, but not one that needs a drastic, game-wide measure, particularly given there are many solutions already.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Organic open gameplay in ED: Mindlessly shooting anything that moves with über powerfull meta killing machine. Basically only thing that differs in case of OpenPVE mode would be that we have special ruleset unlimited multiplayer mode, on par with PVP enabled one. Of course PVP players would hate that actively. As that would eat any incentive to play full open from those who want some co-op multiplayer experience without people roleplaying "Psycho the deranged slayer."

 

[Mowie69]

I'd much prefer online only with servers hosted by Microsoft and removal of this antiquated P2P networking.

I'm not the only one.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd much prefer online only with servers hosted by Microsoft and removal of this antiquated P2P networking.

I'm not the only one.

The game is online only - with Amazon servers (on the PC version anyway). It's not "Open only" though - we all bought a game where other players are an optional extra.

It's unlikely that there'd be a switch to client/server at this late stage in the game's development - especially as that'd incur more cost that would need to be recovered in some way, possibly by a subscription.

While some players want the game to change to suit themselves, not all players want the same thing - so changing it to suit one group of players is highly likely to have adverse effects on other players.

 

[Mogen Teras]

In this thread the title and OP was such an attempt, but Solo players' responses haven't really been engaged with.

So far the bulk of this near-80 page thread has been PvP players and gankers trying to insist that their way of life should be the mandatory standard of both this and every multiplayer game.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Again. Using a game mechanic as it was intended is not an exploit.

It is, because of 5C and because it is exploited by players who are perfectly aware of the way they are exploiting it.

 

[Dack Janiels]

So far the bulk of this near-80 page thread has been PvP players and gankers trying to insist that their way of life should be the mandatory standard of both this and every multiplayer game.

but it's so entertaining

 

[Brrokk]

It is, because of 5C and because it is exploited by players who are perfectly aware of the way they are exploiting it.

Using a game mechanic as it was intended is not an exploit.

No preferences of other people in their play can change this. "Exploit" doesn't mean "doing something I don't like".

 

[Dack Janiels]

Using a game mechanic as it was intended is not an exploit.

No preferences of other people in their play can change this. "Exploit" doesn't mean "doing something I don't like".

Whether is intend to or not, flying in ghost invisible mode to get benefits for yourself is a kind of exploit, you can call it something else but that's what it is.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Whether is intend to or not, flying in ghost invisible mode to get benefits for yourself is a kind of exploit, you can call it something else but that's what it is.

In the opinion of some, certainly - however not liking something does not make it an exploit. The apparent reason for the dislike is that players don't need to make themselves available to be shot at by other players who wish to engage them in entirely optional PvP while engaging in game features.

Affecting game features from any game mode is by design - as is the choice of whether or not to play among other players. The result of these design decisions is that we all bought a game with PvE driven game features with no need to play among those who may wish to engage us in PvP to engage in those game features. CQC is the exception, of course - that's the only game feature that requires players to play among players who may shoot at them.

That a subset of the player-base don't / can't accept that they bought such a game and seek to have it changed for all players to suit their preference is obvious, and has been for many years.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

It is, because of 5C and because it is exploited by players who are perfectly aware of the way they are exploiting it.

It isn't an exploit. It's the way the game is designed, as intended. An exploit is using something in a way that is not intended to gain a benefit.

You're objectively wrong. You don't like it, and that's fine, but the game is designed this way on purpose.

 

[Icyskies]

For me, the right question is: "why should i do pvp?"

There are so many other games where players can just do pvp, competitives and with A LOT more people. In ED is not easy, fa off requeires so much effort and time to learn and only for some pew pew in a game without cross platform, updates for everyone (console lol) and basically lacking of players.

In 40 ships you can only use one and i even don't like it... come on guys. Really go play some fortnite and leave people play in their own way

 

[Dack Janiels]

For me, the right question is: "why should i do pvp?"

because every encounter with an NPC looks the same, encounter with human every time is a different experience, you will never know he will behave and what he will do.

basically lacking of players.

that's why we have hot spots

In 40 ships you can only use one and i even don't like it... come on guys.

lol, you can use any ship, you will see people pvp-ing in sidewinders, asps, cobras... FDL is meta but that does not mean you have to use it

 

[TiberiusDuval]

because every encounter with an NPC looks the same, encounter with human every time is a different experience, you will never know he will behave and what he will do.

Flies FDL ->interdicts you -> Is going to shoot at first possible situation with some meta shipwrecker guns. Yay, unpredictability.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Whether is intend to or not, flying in ghost invisible mode to get benefits for yourself is a kind of exploit, you can call it something else but that's what it is.

As much an exploit as flying engineered killing machine. Both use existing game mechanisms. Like it or not game is designed such way that other players don't need to be your targets.

 

[galahad2069]

Flies FDL ->interdicts you -> Is going to shoot at first possible situation with some meta shipwrecker guns. Yay, unpredictability.

Yeah if the gankee chooses to roleplay an NPC, that will make it quite predictable, lmao.

 

[Icyskies]

because every encounter with an NPC looks the same, encounter with human every time is a different experience, you will never know he will behave and what he will do.


that's why we have hot spots


lol, you can use any ship, you will see people pvp-ing in sidewinders, asps, cobras... FDL is meta but that does not mean you have to use it

Humans are overrated =)

In my opinion the pvp experience has a lot more sense in bgs if you really want to do it... but pls don't tell me that "is a different experience". Enjoy to stay in Deciat to wait someone to inderdict and shot with your plasma cannons

 

[Rebel Yell]

Using a game mechanic as it was intended is not an exploit.

No preferences of other people in their play can change this. "Exploit" doesn't mean "doing something I don't like".

You're talking on something you don't know: join a powerplay group for years and then come back talking.

 

[Rebel Yell]

It isn't an exploit. It's the way the game is designed, as intended. An exploit is using something in a way that is not intended to gain a benefit.

You're objectively wrong. You don't like it, and that's fine, but the game is designed this way on purpose.

Indeed, can I say it is a BAD DESIGN?

 

[Brrokk]

You're talking on something you don't know: join a powerplay group for years and then come back talking.

I don't need to do that. Exploits are defined by FD. I just need to pay attention to the ToS and also avoid anything they explicitly say is an exploit.

I've got some sympathy with RubberNuke's ideas for PP with Open-only components. I wouldn't mind there being a specific PvP activity designed into ED; I might even dabble myself. But ATM, PP isn't what you're making it out to be; it allows use of any mode at any time by design.